Free marketing from media giants

[logicdroid]

Hehe caught you...

We all know that marketing an album (the product) is as important as the production itself. Without marketing, we can't get the product out to the public.

There's been posts about marketing your band, yourself on myspace so on and so forth etc etc.. But I bet xxx,xxx amount of hits on these sites still can't pay the band member's bills.. Most comment: "you rock my socks and btw come listen to my new tracks"... Tell me that I'm wrong...? Anybody?

I'm always watching kid's TV with my daughter and quite recently,"Sing to the dawn" has been advertised quite frequently.

Now, I'm not sure where the production company got it's money to buy that kind of air time.. maybe through sponsership - I don't know.


My thoughts:

Isn't it about time local media giants/authority provide a source and budget to help market bands/artists/short films? Even a short 30 sec teaser during non-prime TV/radio commercials will do isn't it?

I'm sure it doesn't take much considering we don't even have 2 new local albums released every month. I'm even more sure if they could provide such an outlet, loads more in the public will be aware of new/existing bands and their material. (I only got to hear more of these bands from this site)

This could be a big start for our industry if Media giants/authority really support the Arts.

My point is: most musicians are not rich, after saving and spending on gear and music/visual production, they are usually left with holes in the pockets. Apart from networking and hard work gigging and promoting themselves, what other form of help do they get?

I'd like to add that, helping promote these bands will not necessarily generate income for them but will be a nice pat on the back hence fueling the passion of these bands to contribute even more to the local Arts industry.

In what ways can we get this to happen? A poll? A petition with all your signatures? And will it happen.. ever?

Mature thoughts and comments only please.

 

[theliverevolution]

I agree with you in a way that having some air-time would be beneficial to all of us.

But there are the Pros and the Cons to this as well.
Let me start with:

THE PROS:
- Well, the local music scene in Singapore would definately be more well-known. A lot of good bands would be well-known especially if they churn out good music consistantly. This would promote the local scene very well. Good musicians would also start earning some money which would help them produce more music
- It'll gain recognition from listeners
- It'll further promote and expand the local music scene
- There are more avenues to try promoting themselves

The Cons: (I don't want to sound like a wet blanket, but I noticed these)
- How is the media giants going to recognise which are the good, passionate bands? Yes, I agree some free airtime would be beneficial, but the media also have to think of the costs as well. They can't let every band that comes along be on air for a minute cause that's going to take time and money to produce. Furthermore, these bands may not even be there for long. There are some bands, they jam for a while, maybe release an EP, then disband cause they can't get along well or for some other reason. It is hectic for the media giants to find out which are the good bands that is worth investing in. As much as they want to promote, they also must think of their business model in the long run. This can be remedied by other varuios methods, but if u ask me for my opinion, paying for airtime is one of the easiest ways to find out which badns are REALLY dedicated to their music.

Well, my two cents on this issue. Although I won't mind some air-time for my band, I find that the media doing it for free to everyone a bit flawed

 

[shinobi]

in the USA the media giants are so successful that they can market shit music extremely well. which is the case today

 

[roninriot]

Hehe caught you...

We all know that marketing an album (the product) is as important as the production itself. Without marketing, we can't get the product out to the public.

There's been posts about marketing your band, yourself on myspace so on and so forth etc etc.. But I bet xxx,xxx amount of hits on these sites still can't pay the band member's bills.. Most comment: "you rock my socks and btw come listen to my new tracks"... Tell me that I'm wrong...? Anybody?

I'm always watching kid's TV with my daughter and quite recently,"Sing to the dawn" has been advertised quite frequently.

Now, I'm not sure where the production company got it's money to buy that kind of air time.. maybe through sponsership - I don't know.


My thoughts:

Isn't it about time local media giants/authority provide a source and budget to help market bands/artists/short films? Even a short 30 sec teaser during non-prime TV/radio commercials will do isn't it?

I'm sure it doesn't take much considering we don't even have 2 new local albums released every month. I'm even more sure if they could provide such an outlet, loads more in the public will be aware of new/existing bands and their material. (I only got to hear more of these bands from this site)

This could be a big start for our industry if Media giants/authority really support the Arts.

My point is: most musicians are not rich, after saving and spending on gear and music/visual production, they are usually left with holes in the pockets. Apart from networking and hard work gigging and promoting themselves, what other form of help do they get?

I'd like to add that, helping promote these bands will not necessarily generate income for them but will be a nice pat on the back hence fueling the passion of these bands to contribute even more to the local Arts industry.

In what ways can we get this to happen? A poll? A petition with all your signatures? And will it happen.. ever?

Mature thoughts and comments only please.

It isn't about the number of hits, but the quality of the hits you are getting, hence the filtered search I suggested.

It's important to realize that even with mass marketing here, the demographic limitations of our country severely prohibit the sustainability of this approach, unless you're the exceptional few like Jack Neo. But still, isn't it better to spend small amounts of money marketing on the Internet and reach out to a far greater demographic out there? We're talking about the millions here.

In terms of making ends meet via Internet, there have been plenty of bands that have done this, but ONLY when they generate a sustained buzz for themselves over a period of time. In fact, the amount of time they spend a day marketing themselves online is perhaps longer than having an actual job -- that is, if they're hoping to generate profits and results, they have to put their back into it. But usually artists use the Internet as a stepping stone to reaching the next tier; a tier that they won't reach if not for the global reach of the Internet.

Bands and acts that have made it big using primarily the Internet mixed in with touring
Boys Like Girls
Hollywood Undead
The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
Sean Kingdon
Colbie Calliatt (Don't know how to spell her name)
Tila Tequila
Jeffree Star (Who now owns his own label!)
Brokencyde
Scouting For Girls
Mindless Self Indulgence
Never Shout Never!
And many many more.

Recently rising project SECONDHAND SERENADE was a guy who released his EP on the Internet a few years ago before he got signed. He spent very little money to get started but he ended up selling enough albums to make US$8,000 a month for over a year, without a label and without external help.
His self-controlled success enabled him to win over the attention of the labels. So he got signed and is now a major label artist.

So yes, you are right and wrong, in a way . The number of hits don't matter. It's the quality of the hits, and converting those hits into sales figures. That's the difficult part for some but it is far from impossible. It just requires a lot of time and patience and persistence. There is no short cut to success, but there are the tools that can help make it happen. And they are certainly more cost effective than heavy advertising within our sunny shores due to the limitations of our country's demographic audience.


Levan

 

[vickomaniac]

isn't it sean kingston?

 

[theliverevolution]

I think a good way to advertise yourself is to give out enough EPs to passer-bys. The Japanese trio Do As Infinity started off that way along with a few gigs

 

[Godspeed64]

If you can't help yourself, nobody will.. In this world it's all about self-sufficiency lah.. At least we have Soft to inform others about album releases.. I hope Soft cater to other aspects of the arts as well though, like just one Sub-forum for it.. Dealing with literature, painting, film-making, etc.. But still keeping it within a local context.. :mrgreen:

 

[twiztedjoker]

Like what Levan said, it's the quality of your audience, not the quantity. Giving out free EPs...how many can you possibly afford to? 100? 200? The chances of you getting talent-spotted is virtually non-existent. Maybe in Japan, but not in Singapore.

I would have to agree that the Internet is key - It serves as a cost-free platform to share your music and as of current, many big labels are turning their heads towards sites like youtube.com to scout for musicians with potential.

 

[theliverevolution]

Youtube only if you got a video to go along with it though. If you don't ahve a video and only audio using Youtube is not really that useful I feel

 

[twiztedjoker]

That's pretty obvious lol. But I guess you could say that there's always the "face" factor... If you look special/different/pretty/hot/handsome etc. then youtube IS gonna bring you a long way. Of course you gotta be able to do your thing lah...

 

[logicdroid]

Thanks for the contributions so far.

Undeniably, the net is the most cost effective to promote. And yes, without a doubt, talents are being scouted and recruited. However, like what Levan has mentioned: perseverance + patience. + a bit of luck imo.

Now back to topic, this band and few others obviously have done their homework: http://soft.com.sg/forum/open-mic/85990-music-lovers-check-out.html

Now outside looking in, wouldn't it be great if they got a boost? Along with a long list of others?

I'm thinking something along the lines of Mtv's: "Featured artist/band of the month".

That would be a great start. Ideas anyone?

 

[indianstallion]

I think local bands are better off using social sites like last.fm to market their music. Low cost (i think they don't charge you anything for uploading your songs), and you reach a whole lot of people.

And last.fm is great because it's algorithm ensures that it plays your songs to people who are more likely to appreciate it. e.g. it won't play metal songs to someone who listens to mostly pop.

I actually found quite a few great bands with it.

 

[shinobi]

any form of effort or support represents an investment to these 'media giants'.

one wouldn't expect them to do so out of the goodness in their heart. there has to be some kind of tangible end product, target or goal in order for them to make any contribution to what singapore calls a 'scene', while other countries call it an industry.

maybe we want more local songs to be publicised. and it is true that some music created by local bands is really good. but have you ever wondered whether there could be a difference between good songs and good bands? do a few good songs necessarily make a good band? the person whose opinion ultimately matters is the listener. and with that in mind, ask yourself; do listeners support songs, or do they support bands?

now that we have distinguished between good songs and good bands, let's consider what makes a good band. other than talent, a band needs character. the best bands are those whose members will sacrifice everything for their music. rarely do they have to. but such is the character of bands to which listeners will stay loyal.

we may feel the need for intervention due to our dissatisfaction with the state of affairs. but overeagerness to uncover (or manufacture) the next big sensation may shatter the confidence of the listeners, something which i feel is already in bad shape locally.

there is a saying, "Laissez passez, laissez faire" which means "let them pass, let them do as they please" and ultimately it will benefit everyone. this is how we get the best bands to the listeners, because only the best will be able to overcome the difficulty that exists.

how to we distinguish flaws or weaknesses in the system per se, from the acknowledgement that the industry is really tough?

i'd rather avoid this and concentrate on thing that are actually within our control, like how we can do more at the grassroots level.

to sum it all up in one sentence, if musicians keep doing it for the chicks, the fame and the money, we will get good music, which will benefit the local arts scene.

 

[roninriot]

Youtube only if you got a video to go along with it though. If you don't ahve a video and only audio using Youtube is not really that useful I feel

That's where thinking outside the box matters. On YouTube, it's not always the biggest budget video that gets the most hits but also the content within. Well actually, MOSTLY the content within.

Check out www.myspace.com/jeffreestar
This guy, well he doesn't really have that much talent, but one thing I do admire him for is the fact that he carved out a career for himself, using primarily MySpace BUT a slew of other online activities too. BECAUSE of his Internet success, he now owns his own record label which puts out his own music. He made a living out of it when everyone else was thinking old-school.

same goes for www.myspace.com/tilatequila
She's actually Singaporean btw (Or rather, was born here) but she made it big in the US
Again, her talents are questionable, but she has created an allure about herself that keeps people coming back.

In the end, it's all about creating an image for yourself online. Music of course is a HUGE IMPORTANCE, but it is more of your ability to create a unique buzz about yourself. Why are you different, what is so fascinating about you, etc. Only cynics will feel otherwise but the reality of it is; we're drawn to intriguing figures, weird people, perversely stereotyped people. The more we embrace it WHILE having the musical substance, the quicker we will rise to success.

I work for Mediacorp, and I can safely say that putting too much money into advertising here is a complete waste of time. Same with SPH (I hope my bosses are reading this. They can kiss my ass!)

1) It costs a bomb 2) You have to fight against the biased perspectives of the locals here who do not support the music 3) Just like Singapore Idol has proven, Singaporeans are a fickle bunch. Well, most people are fickle, but see, if you use the Internet to reach out to 10 million fickle people, 1 million non-fickle people will still give you money to continue your career

I know a lot of people will go "Oh, but we have to make more people in Singapore support local music!"!!! While that is an ideal situation to be in, the harsh reality is, if you want to carve a career out of this - a sustained career that brings home the bacon - you have to look outside (and hope that the recognition will make a full circle back to your home country). If you want to fight the good fight and make more people support local music, it's a noble mission but still a pointless one - in terms of financial returns. UNLESS you are an exceptional few of course.

And when I say career, I mean a career of playing to fans, selling albums, etc. You can also make a career out of playing in a pub band and doing cover songs.

Levan

 

[logicdroid]

Isn't it about time local media giants/authority provide a source and budget to help market bands/artists/short films? Even a short 30 sec teaser during non-prime TV/radio commercials will do isn't it?

Sorry for budging in Levan.

The initiation to this thread was, isn't it about time? Whether they do it or not? who knows? It would be great if it did happen, you get support locally while pursuing internationally.
The other initiation was, how to make it happen? Anyone?

 

[roninriot]

Even if it's about time, it's not likely to happen because it's about money (as it always is. sigh!). If local bands can't pay for the advertising, it can't happen. The only thing that might seem plausible is a self-beneficial tool (to the company, not the artists) like, Project Superstar or Singapore Idol. But other than that, the allocated promotion time will more than likely be given to advertising companies with the spending power. Perhaps a documentary featuring local music might be good, but notice how they tend to portray local bands as groveling dogs who 'need your support'.

The biggest change that can happen I guess is a gradual shift in perception. For example; not make the separation local stars from international stars so obvious. E.g. album reviews that don't have an undertone of 'this local band is not bad for a local band'. That type of perception can be changed, but gradually and in subtle ways

 

[indianstallion]

Check out www.myspace.com/jeffreestar
This guy, well he doesn't really have that much talent, but one thing I do admire him for is the fact that he carved out a career for himself, using primarily MySpace BUT a slew of other online activities too. BECAUSE of his Internet success, he now owns his own record label which puts out his own music. He made a living out of it when everyone else was thinking old-school.

same goes for www.myspace.com/tilatequila
She's actually Singaporean btw (Or rather, was born here) but she made it big in the US
Again, her talents are questionable, but she has created an allure about herself that keeps people coming back.

In the end, it's all about creating an image for yourself online. Music of course is a HUGE IMPORTANCE, but it is more of your ability to create a unique buzz about yourself. Why are you different, what is so fascinating about you, etc. Only cynics will feel otherwise but the reality of it is; we're drawn to intriguing figures, weird people, perversely stereotyped people. The more we embrace it WHILE having the musical substance, the quicker we will rise to success.

I listened to both the artists, and I think saying their talents are questionable is being too kind, they sounded awful. Tila is just using sex to sell her image, she got famous first by posing for Playboy. And in case of starr, the androgynous thing was done way better by Manson imo (and Bowie before that), maybe his fans are too young to be familiar with Manson's Mechanical Animals period.

Of course I am not saying marketing doesn't matter, your music might be good but you need people to know it exists. But I don't agree that those two examples are good examples of marketing unless you only want to target a certain demographic/scene; I for one after listening to both of them would never buy their music!

 

[someone]

This is already happening.
GSE and Allura have both been featured on Channel V.

Arts Central does loads for the local film and theatre community, but the demographic doesn't suit most local bands.

I think we need both online and mainstream to really break thro.

It would be nice if we had some of the funds and marketing used for superband and SG idol etc to put behind the real local scene. Would be so much more credible TV as well.

 

[roninriot]

I listened to both the artists, and I think saying their talents are questionable is being too kind, they sounded awful. Tila is just using sex to sell her image, she got famous first by posing for Playboy. And in case of starr, the androgynous thing was done way better by Manson imo (and Bowie before that), maybe his fans are too young to be familiar with Manson's Mechanical Animals period.

Of course I am not saying marketing doesn't matter, your music might be good but you need people to know it exists. But I don't agree that those two examples are good examples of marketing unless you only want to target a certain demographic/scene; I for one after listening to both of them would never buy their music!

LOL. You're right. Especially with Tila Tequila. Her music is horrible! I'm not saying they're talented though, I'm just pointing out the fact that marketing and persistence was key to their success. Talentless in music they probably are, but you can't take away the hard work they probably put into getting people to know of them.

It's not about whether people like you or I like them though. It just goes to show the effectiveness of online marketing. In the end, they sell more music than most local bands combined, easily. They found their niche, even if it's not very original, and they honed in on it and clinched that demographic. That's what local bands need to do more - focusing on their niche and expanding on it. Tila Tequila in particular has one of, if not the most, number of fans on her MySpace. She's one of many hoes on the Internet, but she exceeds their success because she owns her niche.

We might never buy their music, but the fact remains, they have enough people doing so to sustain a career in what they want to do. And that is more than what most local musicians can ever lay claim to.

If you want more examples with better musical talent, there are a ton of other good examples of success achieved through the Internet (As mentioned above!) But in each of them, they focused on their niche, marketed it, and kept chipping away at it until they broke down walls to reach their success. Not all of them are insanely successful, but they did make a career out of it. And kudos to them for that!

Levan

Check out www.myspace.com/polysics !

 

[GlypH]

well~basically. i feel sg still have lotsa catchin up to do musically and commercially. the market's small and everything. and majority of consumers prefers popish sounds. sure there are some decent music but very limited.i must say.

best method to get publicized and make quick buck. get signed on to a major label.



kai desu~