Copyright Issues.

[DoubleDecker]

...instead of trying to think up convoluted schemes via email and post

For someone to accuse blatantly on a public forum of "convoluted scheme" ... look who's talking about integrity? (I hope SOFT is taking note of this...)

you do realize my friend,that you were the one going "have you tried it?" like a broken record. dont get your panties in a bunch...

Your statement now leads some of us to think... are you itching to pick up an argument here? You can better invest your time making good music I'm sure.

DD

 

[DoubleDecker]

Cool it fellas. Doubledecker, all unsane is saying is that the postal method will not work to protect copyright. I don't think he is suggesting for anybody to do that.

I'm pretty cool, the fact I took the effort to list the reasons for doing so. That's about it.

But for someone to go all out to accuse of "scheming" ... I am seriously wondering what integrity is he talking to me about as for now. Like I mention, I hope SOFT is watching this... and I appreciate the good help that has been advised amist the un-constructive ones.

But it's not that easy either. From memory, COMPASS requires a work to have been published and marketed before they can copyright the material...

This is the bummer. It has to be published first. But yet in my situation, COMPASS is unable to do it for me so I am asking around for alternatives. Thanks for the advice though...

Cheerz,

DD

 

[Cheez]

OK. Let's get back to the main topic and stop this fighting in the forum.

Another aspect of coprighting our works (of which I've been exploring for some time now) is soundmarking. Anobody has insight into this? Doubledecker?

 

[DoubleDecker]

I actually inserted soundmarkings ... very faint sounds of "You're listening to DoubleDecker" within the music but it is not very practical for usage on video. It is good if you upload this into websites and profiles like MySpace, but if I actually have to send it around for video usage... it's highly impossible in my opinion.

DD

 

[unsane]

For someone to accuse blatantly on a public forum of "convoluted scheme" ... look who's talking about integrity? (I hope SOFT is taking note of this...)

well,how would you define your "ideas" then? oh my,dear god,SOFT might be taking note of my lack of integrity. whatever should i do?

Your statement now leads some of us to think... are you itching to pick up an argument here? You can better invest your time making good music I'm sure.

there's not much point picking an argument with a brick wall eh? amusing though. again,do remember who started going "have you tried it?!" repeatedly. when faced with that, i assume you're either slightly dense,or looking to start an argument yourself. i've plenty of time to make music thank you,nonetheless, cheers for the entertainment today my friend.

 

[DoubleDecker]

well,how would you define your "ideas" then? oh my,dear god,SOFT might be taking note of my lack of integrity. whatever should i do?

there's not much point picking an argument with a brick wall eh? amusing though. again,do remember who started going "have you tried it?!" repeatedly. when faced with that, i assume you're either slightly dense,or looking to start an argument yourself. i've plenty of time to make music thank you,nonetheless, cheers for the entertainment today my friend.

So you're keen to continue with this?

Let's make it simple for you... Quit bitching - if you do not have anything constructive to say. Judging from your posts in this thread, you don't really come across as someone with any sincere desire to help, much least constructive posts.

Thankfully, you're the only odd one out replying in this manner. I apologize for such an offending thread to you when i start talking about sinful copyrights, and I apologize for "stepping on your toes" when I copyright my own materials. :roll:

DD

 

[RoRK]

Sending a sealed, self-addressed envelope is one way. And it does hold up in court. I beleive that i read somewhere that such a scheme actually worked. Off course there are other details involved but this simple act proved to be vital evidence.

As for submiting to COMPASS, forget it. Unless your work is already publised or used in the media industry, they won't take you on.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[DoubleDecker]

As for submiting to COMPASS, forget it. Unless your work is already publised or used in the media industry, they won't take you on.

Cheers
RoRK

That's the main problem I am facing now because they are unpublished previously. Just some tracks I did as a hobbyst until my friend showed my music to the fashion house and now they want me to go fulltime into refining these tracks for their video.

COMPASS works, but not all the time. I need to find out some other alternatives before I hand over my works.

DD

 

[Cheez]

That's a real issue. If your work is not copyrighted and openly shared outside, you run into danger of somebody using it. That's why I'm limiting the number of music I'm posting. Unless they are copryrighted by the correct channels.

As for soundmarking, recording background noises doesn't actually account for soundmarking. Real soundmarking involves hiding some data into the wav file (eg composer name, date of composition etc). And this data is supposed to stay even after converting into a lower bit rate like mp3 etc. If you record a faint sound in the background, this is likely to disappear or lose its clarity after conversion into other formats. And furthermore, the sound can still be edited by sound editing software to erase or render it unrecognisable. As far as I can tell, these proper soundmarking tools are still not up to par yet as they are trying to develop something that remains even after multiple times of encoding and conversions.There are some out there but not openly available. I'm still hopeful - and waiting patiently.

 

[RoRK]

I am assuming that this is a corporate-type video for the company or for one of their events. As such, you sould at least have a contract that stipulates the work that you are doing for them and when and how much you should be paid.

Included in this contract, you should put down details pertaining to the song - eg song title, some description of the song. Additionally, put it in the contract that you should have a copy of the finished work. Tell them that it is required that you submit it to COMPASS for future records.

HTH
RoRK

 

[DoubleDecker]

As for soundmarking, recording background noises doesn't actually account for soundmarking. Real soundmarking involves hiding some data into the wav file (eg composer name, date of composition etc).

I had another thread under the computer section which I was enquiring about tagging of information. But at the same time I recognize the fact that tagging is not going to solve this copyright issue. If I can tag this information, another person can change the tag.

Rork, thanks too! I will check back on that contract thing... since i don't have any standing contract with the end-user. It's more like between me and the video producer.

DD

 

[Cheez]

Soundmarking cannot be changed. It is not about simple tagging.

 

[DoubleDecker]

How do we do that?

 

[victorp]

Sending a sealed,

The best way to seal the envelope in this case is by using sealing wax. It was a long time ago, but Singapore Post did have a service to seal envelopes with sealing wax and stamping the cooling wax with something like a Postal Logo.

 

[Cheez]

How do we do that?

Specialised software.

I use Steganos as a security suite. Steganography lets you "hide" data in bmp/jpeg/wav files - the files are also encrypted. I can put any files (Word, Excel, Powerpoint etc) in a wav file. However the information does not stand processes that convert the wav file into mp3/changing the encoding bit etc.

Soundmarking is supposed to withstand all these. The information is in there and cannot be removed even after you mess around with the wav file.

 

[DoubleDecker]

Thanks Cheez,

I will try to do a search on that software.

DD

 

[Ichiro]

one more thing abt copyrights

copyrights is not out there to protect yr own rights, it is out there to protect everyone's rights...... so when someone ask u "may i use yr song for a movie or include in a particular album" the ans u gave muz not be a no....

technically speaking... if u say a "NO" they can sue u in court and get to use yr song for the price of $1 if the court session goes thru.... in fact there is a way to not get in to this situation....

instead of saying no.... offer them a unreasonable price like 20million or something.... unless they can afford to pay u.... they can't do anything abt it

my 2 cents

 

[Cheez]

Huh? I don't get it. If somebody wants to use my music and I say "no", they can sue me to get it??? The music is my property - how can they sue me??? However, if I say "no", AND they use it (and I can prove the music is copyrighted to me), the I can sue THEM. I don't see how it can work the other way around...

 

[skink83]

Yeah. I'm no lawyer but what Cheez says makes more sense to me.

 

[Ichiro]

notice i say "technically speaking".... this could happen if u offend someone and u don't hv the knowledge in this, they will make use of this "loop hole" to claim the songs for a price as low as $1....

when u write a song & copyright it.... u own the right to hv a say in the song.... not own the right to NOT let ppl use yr song.... this is how copyright works

copyrights is not onli abt u write a song and copyright it it belongs to u..... morever how much does it takes for u to say 20million than NO

well this is my advise to u guys... u guys can choose not to heed this advise.... it is up to u guys to pass the judgement.... but let me tell u guys i don't make false statements..... so u guys decide

i am also in the progress of understanding and learning copyrights rules.... so be it... if u guys don't believe it u guys can ignore my post

cheers