ATTN fellow SOFTies: this is absolutely ridiculous.

[visa]

Then, as I've said before, we should propose drawing up a list of PROPER rules, written in Black and White, so that everyone would know what are the guide lines for being in this forum

That would be useful if James was actually paying attention to this post, but like I said, his silence shows it all. His only responses did not address anything other than my ban, which is just a small matter compared to the main issue here. I posted a few suggestions on this page with regards to a revision of the rules.
http://soft.com.sg/forum/music-kopi-tiam/86661-attn-fellow-softies-absolutely-ridiculous-13.html

No response so far. These suggestions show that we are willing to discuss this without ranting. And I believe some of the counterarguments posted by other SOFTies have been well constructed.

I believe that if he continues not to address these issues, a lot of people will walk away from this thread with a bitter taste in their mouths.

Levan

 

[meekahsoh]

Then, as I've said before, we should propose drawing up a list of PROPER rules, written in Black and White, so that everyone would know what are the guide lines for being in this forum. In fact, it should be stickyed and avaliable on display in ALL sections of the forum. I know there is a Forum Rules and Regulations (just found it out myself) but James has only placed links to other websites. We, as SOFTies, with our own identity, should make our own rules

Even so, it's not specifically about the rules per se. RudimentalDrummer has rather good posts for the rules of the forum, which seem fine by me, just needs some reorganisation. The issue comes when the rules are being enforced. For this, it's up to the moderators to limit how much can be tolerated and while markers should not be crossed.

Even if we have new rules, we still need moderations who are well versed in the rules and know where and when to step in. Like the muhdzr saga? It took too long for a moderator to step in, leading to negative feelings stewing in the Buy/Sell section.

Just like how we have a Judiciary system to enforce the law, we need moderators to govern this forum.


OT/IMO: I kinda think vicko embodies some Singaporean spirit. Willing to listen to the boss on the top and do anything without questions. No offense. Just what I gathered from the post. And don't ignore half of it mmmkay? And urm ya. Moderation by a persons whims and fancy is what we don't want.

 

[theliverevolution]

not just this thread. could be this whole forum as well at this rate

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

I agree with you. Spelling out a set of rules is all good and solid.

But then again, enforcing them consistently is another. I believe RudimentalDrummer did spell out some guidelines for us to follow. It is quite sufficient imo, but if you read on carefully, you'll realise that many people actually don't follow these guidelines. If they were strictly made to rules that are actually enforced, then linking back to the topic, those many members should have had received punishments equal to if not more servere that what Levan had.

Listing rules is good (which is already done here: http://soft.com.sg/forum/message-us/20141-forum-rules-regulations.html) but enforcing it consistently and fairly, is it too much? If it is, what can we do?

At the end of the day, I personally feel that Levan has never meant any real malice in many of this posts and they do not come to be provocative to me and I believe, also to the majority of the people here. There are however, a few members before, who are blatantly behaving out of hand and are literally jerks who seemed to have gone away scot free. Fairness has not been achieved.

Furthermore this whole thing has been clouded with misunderstanding. The lack of communication between James and the person being suspended / banned / punish is the root of this whole problem. Maybe we could suggest that communications be kept strong in order to settle things on common grounds? We shall wait for James reply actually, if not there's really nothing much we can say...

James said he sent warnings and PMs to Levan. Levan said he did not receive anything for 6 months. Both sound credible, so what went wrong?

 

[meekahsoh]

I think this discussion is finally going somewhere constructive. 15,057 soft members, many inactive and we have plenty of new members coming in throughout the year. For that, we have 8 moderators (excluding soft), with four of them having mod powers in the General Discussion forums.

Do you think that these moderators are doing a good job? Are they overworked? Does soft need more moderators or a more active member participation to flag posts with undesirable content.

Also, how lenient should the mods be? 3 warnings before ban/temporary suspension?

Throw more suggestions please.

Besides, if the rules were strictly enforces I guess I'd already have be banned, but there should be a stickied thread on what we'd do to softies who constantly violate the rules.

 

[theliverevolution]

well, I've been reading Rudimental drummer's rules but they're too long winded. It puts everyone off. The moderators should redo the rules a bit to make it shorter, clearer and more understnadable.

That said, it is up to us to also help to enforce the rules as well. Yes, a few more moderators will be good as well. As members, if we see something that is CLEARLY AGAINST THE RULES we should report it.

That aside, when any moderator makes a decision to do something, it should also come with a CLEAR AND PROPER EXPLANATION on why so-and-so post was deleted, or so-and-so user was banned

 

[henryvelge]

wtf guys, im not supporting anyone but srsly?

james only gave a 3 day ban and you fanboys are acting as if its the end of the world.
you guys need to stop sucking up to people and "fight for what is right" on a friggin music forum. tsk tsk tsk. to sum this thread up in 2 words...

fking lame.

 

[theliverevolution]

*slaps forehead in sheer disapointment*

we're not sucking up to anyone, rather, we are fighting for our own rights. How would u feel if someone suddenly banned you unfairly?

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

wtf guys, im not supporting anyone but srsly?

james only gave a 3 day ban and you fanboys are acting as if its the end of the world.
you guys need to stop sucking up to people and "fight for what is right" on a friggin music forum. tsk tsk tsk. to sum this thread up in 2 words...

fking lame.

But seriously? Please don't even reply to this if you're not a tad interested because you need to stop sucking up to people and "post what you think is lame" on a friggin music forum. tsk tsk tsk. to sum your reply in 2 words... You're lame. To unsum it up, you're trying to kill a constructive discussion because you have nothing constructive to input.

Do I sound as hostile as you? Flaming is against the rules, should the both of us get a 3 day suspension? I don't mind just to prove my point.

 

[meekahsoh]

wtf guys, im not supporting anyone but srsly?

james only gave a 3 day ban and you fanboys are acting as if its the end of the world.
you guys need to stop sucking up to people and "fight for what is right" on a friggin music forum. tsk tsk tsk. to sum this thread up in 2 words...

fking lame.

How callous. I betcha the you'd miss the point of the entire thread even if it was eight feet tall and six feet wide.

For those who actually care, I think we could draft a proposal and submit it to James.

 

[jskadiang]

*slaps forehead in sheer disapointment*

we're not sucking up to anyone, rather, we are fighting for our own rights. How would u feel if someone suddenly banned you unfairly?

overreact much? it's a forum. on the INTERNET. it's a 3-day suspension that won't affect you in the slightest unless you're seriously addicted to this website. so you feel james wasn't being fair in banning levan, but there is seriously no need for all this drama. i'm sure james has his own reasons for doing what he did, and after all it's his forum and he really isn't obliged to answer to anyone.

edit: fair enough. so you think he treats certain members unfairly. well again it's his call isn't it? but this is blown way out of proportion. really, fighting for rights? this is the internet, people do whatever the hell they want on it. a proposal against a website moderator who treats his members unfairly? BIG who cares. that is all you're gonna get. just let it slide already.

 

[optisailor2002]

i believe some people have to start bothering to read the previous pages and think a little bit to understand what is going on. if you are too lazy, just simply browse through the later few pages, doesnt hurt to try reading a little bit and try understanding that its not about one person being banned.

 

[theliverevolution]

Yes, I agree that we should draft up a proposal. But how do we going about doing it? I don't think putting it up in the forum is entirely safe from people whose aim is to distract us from it

 

[meekahsoh]

In real life I guess. PM's probably the safest way to communicate all the information, even though it could get clumsy. Saves us the trouble of replying to those who don't bother to read the entire thread and posting for the sake of posting.

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

We need James to respond to this thread again for his total opinion. If not, all these kilobytes of text we're dumping here might be a total waste. Shall we wait for James to reply so that we can continue somewhere? =D Chillax in the mean time. I'm sure he's busy with something otherwise he'd have already replied

 

[theliverevolution]

overreact much? it's a forum. on the INTERNET. it's a 3-day suspension that won't affect you in the slightest unless you're seriously addicted to this website. so you feel james wasn't being fair in banning levan, but there is seriously no need for all this drama. i'm sure james has his own reasons for doing what he did, and after all it's his forum and he really isn't obliged to answer to anyone.

*slaps forehead in disappointment, again*

Dude, to quote optisailor, read a bit more into the backpages to understand why we are fighting here.

The question here is not so much on whether Levan got banned (whether he got banned or not, honestly speaking, I wouldn't be bothered so) but it is on the BASIS ON WHY HE GOT BANNED

If you've been reading some stuff that we've been discussing in the later pages, you would realise that it is on what grounds did James ban Levan. What is the REASON. The question is more on the WHY Levan got banned, not on the FACT that Levan got banned.

Imagine this, you seen people get robbed, beaten up, etc. But the police arrests YOU for not becoming a witness to these crimes.
Obviously, it is not fair that you get thrown in jail just because you didn't want to become a witness

Same here. There are more explicit and more stuff on the forum that is clearly breaking more rules then Levan's post. Hence, we feel that it is unfair. There are many people here who both love (and hate) Levan, but they too also think that it is a bit unfair.
Get my point now?

 

[theliverevolution]

Well, I'm all game to draft a proposal. you guys want to help as well?

 

[optisailor2002]

i generally agree with most that was suggested by levan

http://soft.com.sg/forum/music-kopi...ties-absolutely-ridiculous-13.html#post753658

Here are some of my humble suggestions to you with regards to moderation. You are welcomed to disagree.

1) How about an updated Forum Rules thread? [/b]One that more closely resembles what you feel is the current trend in SOFT. Be sure to include ‘Innuendos of ANY KIND are greatly prohibited. No PM or prior warning will be allowed.” Cause that’s EXACTLY what you did. So yes, if you’d spell it out nicely for all of us, then perhaps there’d be less of a case in point.

2) Also, it would be nice that when you're about to close a thread due to a reason you deem unacceptable, to at least post an end response and leave it there for a bit so people know what's going on. At least show that you do respect the audience who reads it and have considered their point of views on the topic and not just yours.

3) Really do PM people if an offense is committed. Cause seriously, I have never gotten a PM from any moderator or from you with regards with ANYTHING relating to this.

4) Encourage active moderation from others as well so you are not overworked. It's understandable that with a full time job and your own commitments, the stress of having to look out over the forum must be pressurizing. With more manpower involved with consistent and enforced guidelines, the community will also thrive and there will be less stress on your part, thus enabling you to make clearer judgments when the time requires.

5) A fixed number of warnings for offenders so as to avoid situations of accused inconsistency. Perhaps you might want to make the text RED in color to make it more obvious to offenders who might have missed it in the busy forums?

though the first point is a bit, ahem. but i agree on an updated and a more detailed forum rules, so that people know what are the lines that shouldnt be crossed, instead of just saying something with you thinking that it's ok but someone else thinks that it isnt, causing misunderstandings to occur and everyone to be unhappy.

 

[jskadiang]

Imagine this, you seen people get robbed, beaten up, etc. But the police arrests YOU for not becoming a witness to these crimes.
Obviously, it is not fair that you get thrown in jail just because you didn't want to become a witness

the mountains. they're being made out of molehills. also, completely irrelevant metaphor. levan was banned for something that he DID, regardless of how small a matter it was. i'm not saying that it was a fair punishment, nor am i saying it's not. what i'm saying is, really is it that big a deal to warrant 20 pages of crying injustice?

 

[optisailor2002]

the reason this thread was started i believe was not because levan got banned, but rather how he got banned and why he got banned, which has already been discussed in detail in the past 20 pages.

this does not concern only levan, but rather anyone who actively contribute to the forums (whether constructive or otherwise).