An Interesting Conversation
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You haven't heard of string theory? Basically, there are 4 main forces in the universe, electromagnetic, gravity, and the strong and weak nuclear forces. There's always been a gap that exists between unifying all the mathematical theories between all these forces. The problem being the smaller down the scale you get, from the large, kepler's laws, einstein's spacetime to the miniscule of quantum level mechanics, nothing it seems can adequately predict the behaviour of the smallest particles, and reconcile it with everything else. To cut a long story short, thanks to the maths of string theory, it seems that there are about 11 dimensions other than the ones we can observe now. So, just because the normal layman can't grasp dimensions larger than 3, doesn't mean that others haven't taken the step to look beyond.
The flatland refer's to cheez's analogy. Taken another way, the coin could be someone with deep religious belief but does not want to see anything other than their own world when faced with a pencil. Also he points out that the possibility of a god is a big IF, one that those who strongly disbelieve would be wise to pay attention to. That's an example of blaise pascal's wager -- it's better to believe that there is a God because you will gain more if you're correct than nothing if there isn't one, and being sent to hell if you're wrong. Personally i don't think anyone should believe out of fear, and those that do for the wrong reasons are worse than those that don't but do good.
homo sittus in cavus butnotto enuf beerus - man who sits in cave but there's not enough beer.
Really though, if i say your granddad is ah meng's brother, how would you feel? It's rather sad, but just like how the church condemned galileo and copernicus with their idea that the earth is not the center of the universe, those against evolution tend to disagree with the notion that chimps (i.e. animals, not humans ) might have a common ancestor with us. It's similar to saying that everyone is an animal, that adam and eve were nothing more than chimps, it undeniably creates doubt in the truthiness of the western religions and usually the word ape is used to show how condescendingly silly evolution is. But in reality, we're not descended from apes at all.
And once again, the ability to feel compassion is built into all of us. It's a still a raging debate on nurture vs nature. But if you take for example meerkats, they look after each other, tend to each other's babies, and why is that? Evolution would suggest that doing so ensures the species survival. And maybe it's the same for us.
gutturalpiss
New member
A very good _simple_ explanation of String Theory: http://www.zeroflux.org/post/view?id=236
One shouldn't be too confident of String Theory, after all, being a rather new (and radical) theory, there is no firm agreement in this field yet. It is still fascinating, though.
"Personally i don't think anyone should believe out of fear, and those that do for the wrong reasons are worse than those that don't but do good."
That is right. But religions (particularly monotheistic ones) have so many reasons as to why you MUST fear Him. Muslims believe one must fear God. There is another thing some muslims say (not necessarilly reflecting the Quran), if given an argument on the baby-born-into-some-religion. A baby is apparently asked by Him which family he wants to be born into, and in that way, which religion. So it is God who happens to be the one who divides. And conquers. So ok, if everything is true, we are just experiments/toys. So be it, ey?
On a side note, an armchair physicist should never miss Stephen Hawking's or Simon Singh's books.
One shouldn't be too confident of String Theory, after all, being a rather new (and radical) theory, there is no firm agreement in this field yet. It is still fascinating, though.
"Personally i don't think anyone should believe out of fear, and those that do for the wrong reasons are worse than those that don't but do good."
That is right. But religions (particularly monotheistic ones) have so many reasons as to why you MUST fear Him. Muslims believe one must fear God. There is another thing some muslims say (not necessarilly reflecting the Quran), if given an argument on the baby-born-into-some-religion. A baby is apparently asked by Him which family he wants to be born into, and in that way, which religion. So it is God who happens to be the one who divides. And conquers. So ok, if everything is true, we are just experiments/toys. So be it, ey?
On a side note, an armchair physicist should never miss Stephen Hawking's or Simon Singh's books.
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gsonique
New member
very interesting theory ...yet it's still a theory!!
It's funny how all that scientific jargon gets shoved down peoples throat and those who resist are labeled 'substrictus mens' (narrow minded)
The reason the evolution theory is so popular right now is because it gives man freedom, specifically moral and sexual freedom....naming just one of the many reasons.
Go read if you have time to kill....
http://www.evolution-is-degeneration.com/index.asp?PaginaID=1107
gsonique
New member
Darwin aye ....
"Much has been written about the man, but two books (by pro—evolution authors) have exhaustively covered his life—Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist (1992) by Adrian Desmond and James Moore, and the two—volume set Charles Darwin: Voyaging (1995) and Charles Darwin: The Power of Place (2002) by Harvard professor Janet Browne. Along with these two biographies are Darwin's own autobiography and what was written by Darwin's son, Francis.
Darwin 's mother tragically died when he was 8 years old, and he followed the loose and freethinking ways of his father and deceased grandfather. He wrote in his autobiography, "I may here also confess that as a little boy I was much given to inventing deliberate falsehoods, and this was always done for the sake of causing excitement" (emphasis added throughout).
"He was an attention—seeker; he wanted praise . . . ," Desmond and Moore add. "He would still do anything at school 'for the pure pleasure of exciting attention & surprise,' and his cultivated 'lies'. . . gave [him] pleasure, like a tragedy.' He told tall tales about natural history . . . Once he invented an elaborate story designed to show how fond he was of telling the truth. It was a boy's way of manipulating the world" (p. 13).
"He often told lies about seeing rare birds," concurs Janet Browne. "The lies were not connected to any sense of shame . . . More accurately, they mirrored a search for attention. He wanted to be admired . . . Lies—and the thrills derived from lies—were for him indistinguishable from the delights of natural history" (Charles Darwin: Voyaging, pp. 13—14) "
WTF ...
If any of you who wants to read futher can PM me for the link of the article above ....
"Much has been written about the man, but two books (by pro—evolution authors) have exhaustively covered his life—Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist (1992) by Adrian Desmond and James Moore, and the two—volume set Charles Darwin: Voyaging (1995) and Charles Darwin: The Power of Place (2002) by Harvard professor Janet Browne. Along with these two biographies are Darwin's own autobiography and what was written by Darwin's son, Francis.
Darwin 's mother tragically died when he was 8 years old, and he followed the loose and freethinking ways of his father and deceased grandfather. He wrote in his autobiography, "I may here also confess that as a little boy I was much given to inventing deliberate falsehoods, and this was always done for the sake of causing excitement" (emphasis added throughout).
"He was an attention—seeker; he wanted praise . . . ," Desmond and Moore add. "He would still do anything at school 'for the pure pleasure of exciting attention & surprise,' and his cultivated 'lies'. . . gave [him] pleasure, like a tragedy.' He told tall tales about natural history . . . Once he invented an elaborate story designed to show how fond he was of telling the truth. It was a boy's way of manipulating the world" (p. 13).
"He often told lies about seeing rare birds," concurs Janet Browne. "The lies were not connected to any sense of shame . . . More accurately, they mirrored a search for attention. He wanted to be admired . . . Lies—and the thrills derived from lies—were for him indistinguishable from the delights of natural history" (Charles Darwin: Voyaging, pp. 13—14) "
WTF ...
If any of you who wants to read futher can PM me for the link of the article above ....
gutturalpiss
New member
10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... the video above explains well enough. It is not fixed. It is just "extra dimensions". To make it easier to understand, each dimension is explained with an analogy, and the 10th is like a closure so the rest you can imagine yourself. In separate theories, the number is fixed at either 10, 11, or 26 but these are called "flat-spacetime dimensions". Think of these exact figures as "above the hood", where you are given fixed solutions for the sake of logic.
you didn't get it. what do you mean by "number of dimensions each predict is quite different"?
it's just substituting points with strings. seems to satisfy an absence of symmetry in theoretical and particle physics, particularly time and gravity. to the layman, this means imagining a state of existence unlike what is comprehensible, where you are free to bend time, and of course bend your ass.
everything started as a string, not a point. that is all. and that is all a theory. incomplete theory at that. there are theories within this theory, and around this theory. the whole world is a theory. YOU are a theory. so, you and I may not even exist. tata!
you didn't get it. what do you mean by "number of dimensions each predict is quite different"?
it's just substituting points with strings. seems to satisfy an absence of symmetry in theoretical and particle physics, particularly time and gravity. to the layman, this means imagining a state of existence unlike what is comprehensible, where you are free to bend time, and of course bend your ass.
everything started as a string, not a point. that is all. and that is all a theory. incomplete theory at that. there are theories within this theory, and around this theory. the whole world is a theory. YOU are a theory. so, you and I may not even exist. tata!
billthegeek
New member
There are times when I personally feel that religion does not deserve its due respect. Religion has been halting the progress of liberalism, especially women's rights. Women's rights in Muslim nations have been long compromised and I feel there should be something done to address this.
People are afraid to challenge what that is deemed as 'sacred' and hence does nothing to address this issue.
What are you guys' opinions on this subject matter - the conflict between religion and progress? Should we continue to respect religion or should we simply ignore religion when seeking progress?
People are afraid to challenge what that is deemed as 'sacred' and hence does nothing to address this issue.
What are you guys' opinions on this subject matter - the conflict between religion and progress? Should we continue to respect religion or should we simply ignore religion when seeking progress?
based on what i know, you see those people in Afghan under taliban wearing full covered, isn't what islam asks. it's over practising.
Prophet Muhammad helped the women. what people do (harming and treating women like slaves), aren't something related to islam, it's just how some middle eastern countries behave.
i think so......................
Prophet Muhammad helped the women. what people do (harming and treating women like slaves), aren't something related to islam, it's just how some middle eastern countries behave.
i think so......................
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billthegeek
New member
=gsonique
Religion is a theory too.
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Any attempts by theists to label atheists as vile and immoral creatures shall stop now. It is a very arrogant statement to make and reflects poorly on the theist himself or herself.
Religion is a theory too.
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Any attempts by theists to label atheists as vile and immoral creatures shall stop now. It is a very arrogant statement to make and reflects poorly on the theist himself or herself.
fuzztremecho
New member
from my own personal point of view
religion does not hinder progress-China with Taosim and Confucius beliefs have one of the most advance societies known to man.
Likewise Egypt with its early beliefs,or Holy Roman empire,or the golden age of Islam.
Religion were used as a guide for man to ask,ponder and think.
Likewise Plato or Socrates- I do not know what their religion back then were but having or not having a belief does not equal man's ability to progress and think.
At the end of the day,moderation is probably the solution to our daily aspect of living.
just my POV...
religion does not hinder progress-China with Taosim and Confucius beliefs have one of the most advance societies known to man.
Likewise Egypt with its early beliefs,or Holy Roman empire,or the golden age of Islam.
Religion were used as a guide for man to ask,ponder and think.
Likewise Plato or Socrates- I do not know what their religion back then were but having or not having a belief does not equal man's ability to progress and think.
At the end of the day,moderation is probably the solution to our daily aspect of living.
just my POV...
cheesegrater
New member
people with faith are a respectable lot. but people who depend on faith aren't .
i believe in god, but i do not believe in religion.
As quoted by Albert Einstein : “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”
i believe in god, but i do not believe in religion.
As quoted by Albert Einstein : “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”
gutturalpiss
New member
Because 10 itself is not showing us a full stop. And the other fields in String Theory have 11 or 26, fixed because of their own calculation/algorithm terminal. Like I said, it's an incomplete theory. Numerous articles and scientists have come up with equally-valid arguments that this theory is dubious, that the String Theory is fantasy. I myself cannot define it any better than what a few scientists have taught me by book.
In Islam, you are not allowed to question anything. If you are doubtful, you are a sinner. Just one tiny bit of doubt, you sin. I would think that applies to all monotheistic religions, just that muslims are vocal about it.
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