Advice for ermm Aspiring Record Producer

[Metalcaesar]

Hi Guys,

I know its a cliche but, I'm a Sound Technology Student studying at Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts (UK). I kinda chosen this path while i was at the uk studying pop music and realize that the route i wanted to go was to be a Record Producer Mix/Track Engineer. Was gonna ask all of the people that are still/ Have been doing this. Honest Opinion needed. How well is our industry is doing? How can we make it a better place? How can we foster singapore's music to the next level? Any useful insight that might help me ?

I might sound like a dreamer but i hope i'm not the only one.

and here for you to listen to some of my work and any comment is appreciated.

http://soundcloud.com/caesaredmunds/sets/caesar_edmunds/

I'm sorry if i sound like a pretentious bumhole.


Ta,
Caesar

 

[coldestream]

Hi Caesar,

You're not alone bro. I'm actually listening to your work and I really like some of them. Before I jump into anything, I'd like to ask, are you planning to be doing this here in Singapore or overseas?

I would say there're probably more opportunities overseas but for me, I'd really like to work with local musicians here, you know, would really love to see more and more independant singer/songwriters, bands coming up here locally as I've always believed in local music.

If you're planning to be staying in the UK, or accross Europe, or even Australia or US, opportunities are plenty. I heard here in Singapore, new studios open and close like every other month. However, my dream is to privately own Singapore's largest recording facility. You're not sounding pretentious or dreamer. If its a passion, go for it. We can always work together too

http://www.youtube.com/coldestream
http://www.soundcloud.com/flutterone

Your works far outstand mine that I've to say. I have not got much opportunities to work with more musicians yet but I'm not ashamed to share my current works

 

[DoubleBlade]

Bro the industry needs ambitious but more importantly hardworking people like you. I like your attitude towards pursuing your dreams as a music producer. That's the way to go!

Anyways I'm currently taking my degree in Music Technology at LASALLE. I'm also a metalhead as well.

Cheers \m/

 

[kongwee]

Dunno whether there is job for you kind of work. Most people I know open their own studio.

 

[Jerseystar]

I think the current climate for audio throughout the world is to go indie since record labels aren't doing as well as they used to. Unless you tap emerging markets like China etc. But there is enough avenues and independent bands particularly with the advent of internet tools like youtube, myspace etc that are constant draw musicians.

A lot of old studio rats say it is like the 70's all over again where you can just do your own music and make your dough touring. You could also 'embed' yourself with such a band while on tour and do their recordings on their tour bus/car/hotel etc or even do their live recording.

In Singapore, most bands don't think beyond our borders so it's not practical here. Not practical but not impossible.

 

[Metalcaesar]

@coldestream thanks dude i'm flattered. hope that dream comes true for you. Your stuff are pretty good too. Anyway practice makes perfect. I'm looking to be based around singapore to be honest. Singapore is home.

@Doubleblade is your myspace links your work?
hahaha.. i like all sorts of music that i can understand. definitely a metalhead... ROCK!!!

@kongwee Yeah i know.. So the question is do I need to out by myself from scratch? or will there be someone out there thats willing to help out and work towards the same things as well..

 

[Metalcaesar]

@Jerseystar Haha its the point of time where i wished i paid more attention during my Sec School days to my chinese teacher.. I'm horrible at it.. unfortunately..

Tour Bus ?? Sounds like Timbalake.. =D

 

[blueprintstudios]

> How well is our industry is doing?
better, but never enough.
> How can we make it a better place?
hold on to our beliefs.
>How can we foster singapore's music to the next level?
Inspire the next generation.
>Any useful insight that might help me ?
hmm... I don't know how to answer this now. maybe cos I recently changed my applied method to "less talk more rock."

it's like what coldestream has said, studios open and close. click here for studios list the increasing number of studios means the increase for demand, and the increased standard set by younger bands. with each education institute integrating audio/sound courses as well. not forgetting almost every new kid on the block knows how to DIY record with accessible information here at SOFT http://tinyurl.com/diyrecording / the DIY Recording for $50 etc, enables musicians to practise at their own pace with the metronome/recording. Over-saturation about recording? probably, but these contribute to the local scene one way or another.

so should audio engineering/producer be your "destiny" ? I'm working on it. Do you have anything better to do? if not, you should work on it too.

 

[kongwee]

@kongwee Yeah i know.. So the question is do I need to out by myself from scratch? or will there be someone out there thats willing to help out and work towards the same things as well..

Well, need to know people. A lot of them. Since you are musician, start playing and make many friend as possible. Or teaching to get yourself survive. Then plan toward owning a studio for yourself.

 

[Metalcaesar]

@blueprintstudios

there definitely is more then last year list i recall. But honestly anyone can make music at this day and age.. But theres still magic in desk. thats why they are often expensive..

i think audio engineering is definitely my to do.. hahah i've been practicing hard.. actually i feel very lucky... i have spent a total of 500 hours within five months.. and don't worry i've not just beeen sleeping inside it.. recently i had my first professional release on iTunes UK. And currently working on the music of a Dance show featuring the ex principal choreographer of madonna. and working on a EP with a norwegian singer songwriter and mixing a EP with a local liverpudian band.. Its actually driving me nuts to a certain point because all of this are done outside of school hours.. so if you actually see me i'm like a walking zombie around.. But its definitely fun to step into studios! =)


@kongwee well i do get your point.. hahaha yeah maybe teaching alongside is a smart choice.. i do honestly hope that i will be a lecturer at some point to transfer some skills to the younger singaporeans.

 

[Metalcaesar]

@Blueprint i like the stuff you do!! =D i was a sec school F*ck up as well and i did went to a what people might say a lousy secondary school too.. i couldn't go anywhere with my o level grads..I actually skipped my dip/ite/a level and just went straight out of NS into this school... basically got very lucky and unlucky to get into this school.. Rock on!!!

OOOO And P.S. I Wasn't accepted into laselle because apparently i did not met their citeria...

 

[blueprintstudios]

That's cool.I've never touched a desk workstation before.. not that there's a necessity on my end.
Gd luck and do inform me when you run one so I can add you to the list.

Thanks for the compliment, my Cert only psle actually.. As I always say, It's what you do after dropping out that counts

 

[DoubleBlade]

Hi Caesar,

I'm very impressed with your current work credentials. Working with experienced musicians and songwriters. That's really awesome!

Yes the myspace link on my signature is mine while the other link belongs to my band.

Right now I'm just working with DIY songwriters and bands to produce and arrange singles for them on top of school work. Nothing fantastic but I believe I'm learning lots of things from the experience.

 

[Likui]

Hello
just learn from people ask questions listen to more good mix, some good recordings are like Hell freezes over by the eagles, 6 string theory by lee ritenour.
Also invest in a good monitor really helps a lot in your mix.

hi julius
how's your music productions getting along? I hope getting better yea

 

[Metalcaesar]

Hi Lukui,

Thanks for your advice.. I don't quite understand.. Hmmmm heeding your advice... whats a good mix in your opinion ??? That might really help alot.. Ooo yeah good monitor.. any preferences??

I guess at the end of the day.. Not everyone owns a pair for studio monitors.. most people and I do highlight MOST music consumer just listen to music through their ipod headphones, TV, Cars etc.

So Probably a good mix would be translating what the artiste visions inside his head or not??? HMMMM Very very subjective though..

OOOO P.S Have you heard my mixes ??? I'll like to get some feedback from you.. You seem like you know what your talking about..

 

[kongwee]

@kongwee well i do get your point.. hahaha yeah maybe teaching alongside is a smart choice.. i do honestly hope that i will be a lecturer at some point to transfer some skills to the younger singaporeans.

Do apply for AMIS instructor with MOE after you graduated. All primary and secondary school are going through this system to tender music education project.

 

[Likui]

=Metalcaesar

A good mix would be when you hear it u can imagine that the stage is very big, it has a big soundstage, next all instruments must have very good clarity you can hear all the instruments very clear and defined. So far this monitor ATC I heard at resolution is pretty good but it's around $9000

I've heard your mixes through my earphones (Westone 1) sounded quite good how every the mix sounded quite narrow for vocals.
http://bigstars24.bandcamp.com/
here's my digital album you can hear.

When I do mixing this is a big problem I faced, to get a good soundstage. I do not have studio monitors I only have multimedia speakers Edifier C3 which is about $160 I think. What I did was I did the mix on that system, next I used my Westone 1 earphones ($225) and try it that one has a mid range boost so u can hear the vocals and electric guitar very well, next I used my Audio technica CKM 30 earphones ($48) which has a mid range cut so you will hear the vocals softer, I had a problem balancing the Westone and the audio technica to get an ok sound for both but well I got it in the end. Then I tested on HVM earphone ($10) treble cut earphone well I didn't have to do any adjustments to that, I also tested on D jays earphone (about $150) and denon about ($100) also sounded ok. Seems like when I got the balance between the Edifier speakers and westone 1 and audio technica ckm 30 I've got to problem with the instruments overpowering another. Then I tested on a hi fi, kharma reference speakers ( about $100000+) it sounded like crap. Reason is because of the soundstage, for my earphones and speakers the sound is like very narrow but the kharma speakers the sound is very wide spread, the rhythm guitars on the 2 sides were extremely soft and the other instruments vol needed to be tweaked also. The ATC monitors I recommend has pretty wide soundstage yea so it can solve the soundstage problems.

For me good recordings are like hotel califonia from hell freezes over album, bad recordings are like valley of the damn by dragonforce. John petrucci's suspended animation album is so far the best for instrumental rock I've heard.

Well I wont say my mix is very good, because after I've completed the album I learn some more stuff. So I'm going to use that for my next album , instrumental rock album.

 

[Metalcaesar]

Likui,

I think that what you just said was very subjective..

However I don't quite get what you tried to explain about mix sounding narrow..

A good Mix engineers work can however translate through all systems.. Reference monitors are supposed to sound bad. Because they are supposed to be flat in frequency response..

UM1s? I remember them.. I've got UM2s though and some Custom fitted In ears..

Then I tested on a hi fi, kharma reference speakers ( about $100000+).. WHOA!! such a expensive speaker.. I'll rather spend it on something else to be honest..

My school has some ATC , Genelecs, Boxerm, Avantone, Yamaha monitors nothing as expensive as the Karma Reference speaker.. And !!! My Ears

Ooo well.. GOOD LUCK WITH MIXING FOR YOUR NEXT ALBUM THOUGH!!!

btw are you a saleman of headphones/speakers ??? Because to remember the price takes quite alot of practice/geekness.. Maybe you should try to apply for a job!

Maybe!!! If you want a wider 'soundstage' just spread your speakers wider.. the optimum is an equilateral triangle.. =D and theres speaker positioning, Room nodes to beware of.. hahaha i can't explain to you how many things affect your "Soundscape"

P.S Still more people listen to music on iPod grade earpieces =)




@Kongwee..

Hahaha.. i was thinking more like poly students those sort.. I can't teach primary/ secondary school kids.. i'll prob get kicked out by cussing too much (although i might just have to learn to curb my tongue) hahaha

 

[Likui]

=Metalcaesar

Mixing very narrow, means the soundstage very narrow. You try compare your song with say love will keep us alive by the eagles on the hell freezes over album, then u hear 1 very narrow 1 very wide.
Well it seems for earphones that the cheaper ones have small soundstage and the more expansive ones like JH audio has very big sound stage.
Same goes with speakers those lower sonodyne has small soundstage and the very expansive ATC has bigger soundstage.
So I guess there's a pattern between price and soundstage.

Yes placement of speakers has also to do with soundstage but if u compare 2 monitors side by side 1 low end 1 high end on the same placement, u will hear a diff in soundstage too.

No I'm not a sales man, just earphone geek maybe lol.

 

[kongwee]

Wow, now is soundstage topic.

Actually, I deal with speaker a lot in the past. The most expensive speaker I setup is around $85000. The whole setup is base on 2C3D concept. That truly full range soundstage. That the best I ever heard. Those who in audiophile for quite sometime will know what I'm talking.

Anyway, for a good monitor setup. With audio interface around $250 and a pair of $500 studio monitor, you can get bery good soundstage. And this is important. You must get the best sweetspot in your room. You know the equilateral triangle rule. Since most of our own small monitor speaker. It is alway seat near the speaker and form that triangle. Your speaker should stay away from the wall about 2 feet away at least. It is alright if your "triangle" is less than 1 meter form each other. My is about 60-70cm apart. Toe in your speaker tweeter to an angle that fire to you ear.

If you form correctly you should feel these thing:
1. A solid center - a rounded vocal is a good sign.
2. You don't feel the speaker is there.
3. The soundstage is wider than your triangle.
4. A beautiful soundstage that you will drill into your seat for hours( that important to your comfort too)
5. Easily hear out of phase sound( easily found on electronic music )
6. You don't need to volume up to listen tiny detail.
7. A good degree of layering.
8. Less mono tone bass.

These are the things you should able to achieve. From there any upgrades or room treatment will make sense. IMO, you will not enjoy using earphone or headphone.