a dumb comparison
- Thread starter xenOgenesis
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RudimentalDrummer
Moderator
Bro Blofed, they say: ... it's indeed "a priviledge for anyone to have Thick Skin" ... and you dont just have Thick-Skin, but exceptionally Thick-Skin actually, so it's your- "Special Priviledge & Assets" .. Kekekekeke
caijunlong
New member
I still remembered asking someone if Jazz is tougher to play than Latin. His answer was this.. "Don't compare difficulties of genres. We play music for music, not for their difficulty."
xenOgenesis
New member
lol i didn't expect so much replies over something as minor as that. haha!
Trying to compare drummers from different genres is always a very controversial, provocative and (usually) dumb topic.
Notwithstanding the fact that jazz is a far wider genre covering a much greater spread of drumming skills, involving many different time signatures, polyrhythms, dynamics, independence, sub genres etc....and metal (and their sub genres) is essentially a hard driving driving 4/4 time signature involving a 2 and 4 back beat often played with much energy and speed(the odd ballad excepted) ....what are we actually trying to compare?
The fact is that most metal/rock/death/etc music is enjoyed by the young set, and most drummers from this genre are young and relatively inexperienced musically ....and jazz is played by older musicians (although this is also fast changing) who have evolved from other simpler genres...still do not define the argument.
Unlike Guitarists, keyboardists, bassists, and other instrumentalists...drummers can least afford to be specialising in just one genre...not if one intends to make drumming a profession.
Therefore it's not so much the genre that defines a good drummer, but his ability to play with the right feel, to interprete and execute the music in hand, and to make the band sound good, no matter what the genre is.
Everything else is just distracting from the essentials.
Notwithstanding the fact that jazz is a far wider genre covering a much greater spread of drumming skills, involving many different time signatures, polyrhythms, dynamics, independence, sub genres etc....and metal (and their sub genres) is essentially a hard driving driving 4/4 time signature involving a 2 and 4 back beat often played with much energy and speed(the odd ballad excepted) ....what are we actually trying to compare?
The fact is that most metal/rock/death/etc music is enjoyed by the young set, and most drummers from this genre are young and relatively inexperienced musically ....and jazz is played by older musicians (although this is also fast changing) who have evolved from other simpler genres...still do not define the argument.
Unlike Guitarists, keyboardists, bassists, and other instrumentalists...drummers can least afford to be specialising in just one genre...not if one intends to make drumming a profession.
Therefore it's not so much the genre that defines a good drummer, but his ability to play with the right feel, to interprete and execute the music in hand, and to make the band sound good, no matter what the genre is.
Everything else is just distracting from the essentials.
beboptang
New member
Well said! Am gonna appropriate (read as: steal) that! Hahaha!!
Perhaps you should do some research on jazz before you extol the virtues of youth and raw energy sans finesse. Much as you hate to admit it..age does have some advantages. I have probably heard more music in my 40+ years of consciousness than you can ever hope to smell yet in your adolescent career...enough to tell me that it is probably not worth spending too much of my remaining time on earth listening to a lot of the crap today that would go out of fashion in a few years and fade away like its fans of today. But then again...there's no accounting for class and taste.
And God forbid...we old farts are not here to try to impress you youngsters with speed and technique...That's the forte of youth. We are comfortable in our world without trying to strut around with an attitude and a funny haircut (got no hair to play with).
You must be sick and tired of hearing the phrase "been there...done that" from older folks like your father, your uncles and even old drummers like me - but the fact remains that when you are so much younger, you couldn't have possibly "been there and done all that"..without sounding like some schoolboy braggart. But Father Time spares no one and you will also be an old fart some day. I certainly won't be around to say " I told you so" or check whether you have also been there and done that too.
Thanks for giving me the platform to test intellect with you rather than see who got the faster single stroke roll. It might be more constructive if you do not adopt such an antagonistic attitude towards more outspoken senior citizens like me...at least I try to engage you. It will be your loss if you continue to let your youthful arrogance blind your judgement just because you lack the experience that only time can eventually bestow on you.
One last thing...you have chosen drums as your career. You'd better be damn good at what you do ...or be prepared to join the ranks of those old chari-makan musos in their 50's and 60's that you seem to despise today....maybe 20-30 years down the road.
My life does not revolve or evolve around drums...it's another of the numerous hobbies/passions that I enjoy. I chose a different career path in life which, upon retirement still allows me to enjoy my music and fellowship with my generation of musician friends.
Frankly speaking..I don't even really feel I belong here on this forum....it's only my morbid curiousity that sustains me...seeing that you hardly have any established and experienced professionals here contributing..other than the ones who uses this forum as free advertising for their drum schools or services...(oops!)
All that notwithstanding, I can only wish you the same good fortune and hope you have what it takes to succeed.
And God forbid...we old farts are not here to try to impress you youngsters with speed and technique...That's the forte of youth. We are comfortable in our world without trying to strut around with an attitude and a funny haircut (got no hair to play with).
You must be sick and tired of hearing the phrase "been there...done that" from older folks like your father, your uncles and even old drummers like me - but the fact remains that when you are so much younger, you couldn't have possibly "been there and done all that"..without sounding like some schoolboy braggart. But Father Time spares no one and you will also be an old fart some day. I certainly won't be around to say " I told you so" or check whether you have also been there and done that too.
Thanks for giving me the platform to test intellect with you rather than see who got the faster single stroke roll. It might be more constructive if you do not adopt such an antagonistic attitude towards more outspoken senior citizens like me...at least I try to engage you. It will be your loss if you continue to let your youthful arrogance blind your judgement just because you lack the experience that only time can eventually bestow on you.
One last thing...you have chosen drums as your career. You'd better be damn good at what you do ...or be prepared to join the ranks of those old chari-makan musos in their 50's and 60's that you seem to despise today....maybe 20-30 years down the road.
My life does not revolve or evolve around drums...it's another of the numerous hobbies/passions that I enjoy. I chose a different career path in life which, upon retirement still allows me to enjoy my music and fellowship with my generation of musician friends.
Frankly speaking..I don't even really feel I belong here on this forum....it's only my morbid curiousity that sustains me...seeing that you hardly have any established and experienced professionals here contributing..other than the ones who uses this forum as free advertising for their drum schools or services...(oops!)
All that notwithstanding, I can only wish you the same good fortune and hope you have what it takes to succeed.
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i have done research on jazz, have u done it on metal? probably not right. didn't u say u like stirring the pot abit, questioning things? but u seem to not like it when someone stirs back. right now i'm stirring ur pot, dun like it u should just leave the kitchen. wait hehe dun look like u leave the kitchen often does it. didn't u say u weren't coming back? u should show us young ones how its done to keep ur word.
pls dun knock the pros who offer advice in the forum, people like audrey, alvin and brandon give alot of good advice and keep out of ur way cause the dun want to start a fight. their way better people than i am, i dun mind speaking out. if these pros dun come back and support the forum who will give talks at the exchanges. have u done one? have u provided any advice that isn't condescending? wait any advice? you wanna whack me okie, dun whack the other pros that need to make a living but still give it away free here.
pls dun knock the pros who offer advice in the forum, people like audrey, alvin and brandon give alot of good advice and keep out of ur way cause the dun want to start a fight. their way better people than i am, i dun mind speaking out. if these pros dun come back and support the forum who will give talks at the exchanges. have u done one? have u provided any advice that isn't condescending? wait any advice? you wanna whack me okie, dun whack the other pros that need to make a living but still give it away free here.
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RudimentalDrummer
Moderator
Xeno is young and is learning and I’m sure he just put up this Thread for a friendly discussion among us all
Mark my bro on the other hand (also a young man not a young Drummer) is a Professional Drummer/Musician who just came back to Singapore not so long ago.
And my Bro Frank is a very experience drummer and had come a long way and I do agree and believe that you had tone down very much nowadays in Forum (I can see from the way you post).
Frank you can be Mark’s Dad and Xeno can be your Grandson liao …. From here can tell of course there will be difference in the way you all see things…such a generation gap … Hehehehe …
PEACE TO ALL !
PS: - Hahahaha still remember when I told my dad while we were having dinner one night - “You Can’t Teach An Old Dog New-Tricks” he turn around angrily and said to me “Don’t Teach Your Father How To Suck Eggs My Son” ……. I guess it’s something like that here lah………..but seriously all of you are correct in your own ways.
Mark my bro on the other hand (also a young man not a young Drummer) is a Professional Drummer/Musician who just came back to Singapore not so long ago.
And my Bro Frank is a very experience drummer and had come a long way and I do agree and believe that you had tone down very much nowadays in Forum (I can see from the way you post).
Frank you can be Mark’s Dad and Xeno can be your Grandson liao …. From here can tell of course there will be difference in the way you all see things…such a generation gap … Hehehehe …
PEACE TO ALL !
PS: - Hahahaha still remember when I told my dad while we were having dinner one night - “You Can’t Teach An Old Dog New-Tricks” he turn around angrily and said to me “Don’t Teach Your Father How To Suck Eggs My Son” ……. I guess it’s something like that here lah………..but seriously all of you are correct in your own ways.
It's nothing to do with insecurity, kid...and one do not shrug off challenges to one's intelligence. Call it the generation gap...the young-kid-on-the-block syndrome or whatever...this old soldier won't sit down quietly when the brats are misbehaving. Just sit back and learn a few things if you cannot contribute to the party.
OK kid....I tried to be nice but obviously you already have issues with me for some strange reason...maybe I remind you too much of your dad, as you leaked out..but hey..I am not your dad so don't let that association warp your perceptions.
I extended my hospitality to you when you wanted to inspect the FFS drums..no strings attached. But you obviously have issues with me even though you hardly know me. But hey..no sweat, kid. I eat up people like you for breakfast and spit them out by lunchtime ! Now, back to serious business.
Ahh..metal ! You seem to forget that it was my generation that was in the forefront of hard rock and heavy metal. We were doing it back then at places like Woodstock(FE Plaza) and Atlantis (remember Speedway..too old for you)...you were still in kindergarten then I suppose.
Research? Hell we lived it once. Maybe I need a refresher but I am not keen anymore as I am long past that stage of adolescence.
It's you youngsters that really need to research since you only have hearsay to guide you. BTW you must be still researching your jazz quite studiously as I have not seen you doing any pro jazz gigs in town or jamming with the pros in places like JSB and BarStop?
Please feel free to stir my pot...but don't complain about the smells you may release to satisfy your youthful curiousity. Yes I was quite content the ways things were ...but every now and then, some young gunslinger comes to town and it's high noon all over again..or are you too young to understand the innuendoes? Don't get me wrong...I relish these little forum fugfights although I know I am somewhat hampered here because Eric does not like blood and turds on the floor.
So don't think I am not grateful for you starting one. Or are you fearful of my return to this arena and want me out of it ..so you can all revel in your youthful innocence once again? If so, just say "please Uncle" and I might just fade away.
Hey...please don't drag Audrey, Brandon etc..into the fray. I got no beef with them nor they with me. I am sure they are secure individuals who do not need to flex their muscles against some old guy with a sharp tongue to justify their place in this world.
I also got nothing against working pros who contribute to your forum activities..good for them and your members. You need heroes to look up to.
Have I done any talks for your precious Exchange ? Hahaha..no one ever invited me and no one is likely to. I am too "condescending" and I hurt egos !! Sorry hor...I just don't fit the bill..maybe you prefer more style over substance.
The fact is I am never excited over Drum Exchanges where a gathering of drum-hero wannabes watch with jaws-on-the floor while some acknowledged expert demonstrates awesome techniques which few of the audience can catch any balls. Then there are those ridiculous drum battles...and drooling over equipment and gadgets. WHAT ABOUT THE MUSIC ? Ah never mind lah...just whack the drums....shiok !
No lah...my pursuits are more humble. I only host a a few jams every week where musicians (not just drummers) get together and play real music. I've been to a few of your sessions..but did you ever bother to pop into one of mine? See whether you can impress other musicians (not drummers) with your incredible technique and speed? Pros come to my sessions too - bassists, sax, pianists, guitarists and not a few great drummers. Even Eric came a few times ! Didn't see you though?
And puhleeaze lah ...don't say I whack the pros..that's not the way to earn their sympathy. I only question the need for some pros to highlight their drum schools so fervently on the forum as if the drum school is part of the forum !! The I would also question the sincerity of their contributions. Perhaps the ethics of it all should be an issue.
And if I pissed you off...I apologise forward. I really do not wish to whack anyone..but sometimes when I defend myself, I may accidently hit someone in my exuberance.
I hope it was good for you as it has been good for me !!
I extended my hospitality to you when you wanted to inspect the FFS drums..no strings attached. But you obviously have issues with me even though you hardly know me. But hey..no sweat, kid. I eat up people like you for breakfast and spit them out by lunchtime ! Now, back to serious business.
Ahh..metal ! You seem to forget that it was my generation that was in the forefront of hard rock and heavy metal. We were doing it back then at places like Woodstock(FE Plaza) and Atlantis (remember Speedway..too old for you)...you were still in kindergarten then I suppose.
Research? Hell we lived it once. Maybe I need a refresher but I am not keen anymore as I am long past that stage of adolescence.
It's you youngsters that really need to research since you only have hearsay to guide you. BTW you must be still researching your jazz quite studiously as I have not seen you doing any pro jazz gigs in town or jamming with the pros in places like JSB and BarStop?
Please feel free to stir my pot...but don't complain about the smells you may release to satisfy your youthful curiousity. Yes I was quite content the ways things were ...but every now and then, some young gunslinger comes to town and it's high noon all over again..or are you too young to understand the innuendoes? Don't get me wrong...I relish these little forum fugfights although I know I am somewhat hampered here because Eric does not like blood and turds on the floor.
So don't think I am not grateful for you starting one. Or are you fearful of my return to this arena and want me out of it ..so you can all revel in your youthful innocence once again? If so, just say "please Uncle" and I might just fade away.
Hey...please don't drag Audrey, Brandon etc..into the fray. I got no beef with them nor they with me. I am sure they are secure individuals who do not need to flex their muscles against some old guy with a sharp tongue to justify their place in this world.
I also got nothing against working pros who contribute to your forum activities..good for them and your members. You need heroes to look up to.
Have I done any talks for your precious Exchange ? Hahaha..no one ever invited me and no one is likely to. I am too "condescending" and I hurt egos !! Sorry hor...I just don't fit the bill..maybe you prefer more style over substance.
The fact is I am never excited over Drum Exchanges where a gathering of drum-hero wannabes watch with jaws-on-the floor while some acknowledged expert demonstrates awesome techniques which few of the audience can catch any balls. Then there are those ridiculous drum battles...and drooling over equipment and gadgets. WHAT ABOUT THE MUSIC ? Ah never mind lah...just whack the drums....shiok !
No lah...my pursuits are more humble. I only host a a few jams every week where musicians (not just drummers) get together and play real music. I've been to a few of your sessions..but did you ever bother to pop into one of mine? See whether you can impress other musicians (not drummers) with your incredible technique and speed? Pros come to my sessions too - bassists, sax, pianists, guitarists and not a few great drummers. Even Eric came a few times ! Didn't see you though?
And puhleeaze lah ...don't say I whack the pros..that's not the way to earn their sympathy. I only question the need for some pros to highlight their drum schools so fervently on the forum as if the drum school is part of the forum !! The I would also question the sincerity of their contributions. Perhaps the ethics of it all should be an issue.
And if I pissed you off...I apologise forward. I really do not wish to whack anyone..but sometimes when I defend myself, I may accidently hit someone in my exuberance.
I hope it was good for you as it has been good for me !!
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Why? Does my presence here threaten your serene existence?
I am not arguing with people half my age (don't flatter yourself that you have the intelligence to sustain a healthy argument)
I am just saying my 2 cents worth for people of my generation. You youngsters think you already know it all...as I did when I was your age. How wrong and misguided you are!
No I am not wasting my time here...I have more time on my hands now that I have achieved most of my goals in life. Perhaps if you youngsters can look beyond your own fog of arrogance and self importance, you may learn some wisdom from this old fart here.
At least I have been there...done that... and now have something to show for it. Not being cocky...just a fact of life. Pray tell...what have you achieved and where are you heading? Do you know - or are you trusting to faith and the Gods of fashion?
I am not arguing with people half my age (don't flatter yourself that you have the intelligence to sustain a healthy argument)
I am just saying my 2 cents worth for people of my generation. You youngsters think you already know it all...as I did when I was your age. How wrong and misguided you are!
No I am not wasting my time here...I have more time on my hands now that I have achieved most of my goals in life. Perhaps if you youngsters can look beyond your own fog of arrogance and self importance, you may learn some wisdom from this old fart here.
At least I have been there...done that... and now have something to show for it. Not being cocky...just a fact of life. Pray tell...what have you achieved and where are you heading? Do you know - or are you trusting to faith and the Gods of fashion?
