Strings sequencing/sampling/mockup [update]

[kongwee]

Would love to hear your piece.

This is the one I done sometime ago for Super Coffee Mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsOKZ5Yu4Qc

The Owl one, I must make sure it being air then I upload to youtube.

Now waiting for the time to use the new string library that I have.

This is other kopi project:

http://www.dreamzcoffee.com/showcase/super-naguib/superstar-naguib.html

Beside,MTV,vocal recording, the music arrangement is done by me. This is the time I do five part string.

 

[BKKJohn]

Good info!

Thanks for the information about string libraries. I didn't know some of these products, since they're only sold direct. I contacted the manufacturers and learned a few things since:

LASS has sampled glissandi up to an octave, and CC#83 can be used to control the speed. This to me is amazing, making it possible to do a lot of really avant-garde effects like Xenakis did. On the down side, their Second Violin samples are reprocessed First Violins, not all new samples.

Both LASS and Kirk Hunter's Concert String Orch. II are on sale. COS is half-price (not including the required full Kontakt at $395)! This usually means a company is either discontinuing a product (not the case here), or there is a new competitor coming. It might be the Hollywood Strings, announced but not released, or the long-awaited Garritan Orch Strings II. To me, the original was the best ever for Gigastudio, including things not even in most current libraries (col legno, avant-garde techniques like playing behind the bridge, etc.), including VSL, which is overpriced, IMHO.

I'm leaning toward Kirk Hunter's library, or else wait for Garritan. I'm a little nervous about the download, though. I'm in Thailand and can imagine it taking a week!

 

[teraslasch]

hi cheez =).. havent been here for awhile haha.. personally what do you think of hollywood strings?

 

[Cheez]

Hi! Indeed you haven't been around!

Hollywood strings are good - esp since the midi mockup guru Thomas Bergesen had input into the production with Nick Phoenix. So far, it's the library with the most complete articulations you ever want from a string library.

However, it so large that to use it completely, you really need multiple PCs. Look at the specs - 310GB of disk space and quad core with 8GB of RAM...just for strings! Put in other orchestral instruments and your system will choke.

So...I think it's a good venture to have a gigantic library. But for practicality, I would rate it low. Anyway, strings libraries have now reached a plateau. LASS, Hollywood strings and various "smaller libraries" are now all very realistic. But we can still tell it's not the real deal. The next step is to go for real string players. Instead of getting a huge library like this, I would go for smaller ones and layer them.

A few I'm waiting for:

1. LASS lite (it's taking really long)
2. Garritan's GOS2. I wanted to get the Stradivari and Gofriller, but they were taken out because of the new ARIA engine, waiting to be part of GOS2. The Stradivari and Gofriller are one of the most realistic solo violin and cello out there (I prefer them to VSL). Layering solo strings like this with an ensemble will give the effect I would like to have.

 

[BKKJohn]

Hi! Indeed you haven't been around!

Hollywood strings are good - esp since the midi mockup guru Thomas Bergesen had input into the production with Nick Phoenix. So far, it's the library with the most complete articulations you ever want from a string library...I think it's a good venture to have a gigantic library. But for practicality, I would rate it low. Instead of getting a huge library like this, I would go for smaller ones and layer them.

A few I'm waiting for:

1. LASS lite (it's taking really long)
2. Garritan's GOS2.

I thought Hollywood strings was unreleased. I crossed it off my list because the (expected) price and system requirements are for features I don't need. Mainly that means 5 mic positions (including a surround set) for every sample, making it 5 times larger.

I've got it down to either Kirk Hunter ($799) or LASS ($1099):

- Both require the full version of Kontakt ($399) for full functionality (KH won't wortk at all without it).

- Both enable layering smaller ensembles to build up a full string orchestra. LASS is better at that, as it offers TWO half sections and a quarter section which are distinct from the full section. Kirk Hunter has one half section.

- Both have the same standard playing styles, including sordino. but neither has all the variety of the original Garritan Orch. Strings (col legno, sul pont. sul tasto, weird glissandi, etc), so I may wait and see what their GOS2 has.

One distinctiion is that LASS has speed-controllable glissandi, which if judiciously controlled (that is, with a lot of work) can be used to create longer glissandi like in avant-garde music like Xenakis.

Both will run on one very fast computer, but LASS claims that two CPUs are needed to run the bigger libraries with more divisions.

 

[Cheez]

You're right. Hollywood strings is not released yet.

Both LASS and KH have divisi programming. The strength, of course, is that we no longer need to load different sections sizes and try to make sure that when we sequence divisi, we don't end up with gigantic string sections.

About layering, I would still prefer just layering a very good solo string (ie solo chair violin) with the string ensemble. Hence I'm hoping Garritan will release their GOS2, or at least make their Stradivari available again. The reason is Legato samples are getting too much nowadays. An entire string section playing real legato (in sampling terms - sliding from one note to another) is becoming unrealistic - because string sections seldom play like that all the time. It's better to have a solo chair violin play real-legato with the rest of the section not sliding all over the place.

Although the website stated that LASS requires 2 PCs, most users said that they can do it on just one. I'm sure a Quad core will be comfortable.

I haven't upgraded my KH to the Concert Strings 2 because I like LASS better - it "breathes" more. But the price is a little too high. So I'm undecided.

Another contender to divisi programming - DVZ Strings (http://www.audioimpressions.com/). It was the earliest to come up with the idea, way before LASS. But it appears dead. They are waiting forever to complete it, and I believe when they first introduced it during NAMM some years ago, the price was ridiculous (if I recall correctly, somewhere around 5 figures USD).

 

[kongwee]

I thought Hollywood strings was unreleased. I crossed it off my list because the (expected) price and system requirements are for features I don't need. Mainly that means 5 mic positions (including a surround set) for every sample, making it 5 times larger.


Both will run on one very fast computer, but LASS claims that two CPUs are needed to run the bigger libraries with more divisions.

I think the HS,LASS,KH CSII(kontact ver) need fast com, because they have bulit in effect engine rather than pure sampler.I have a Ministry of Rock, the reverb engine eat quite a bit of processing power. Normally, I will turn it off as I am used to bus out all track to a single reverb engine.

All these product allow to load and unload sample, it is good to unload unused sample in a track after you complete a section.

Other way is to freeze track, which few people will go this route.

 

[BKKJohn]

I think the HS,LASS,KH CSII(kontact ver) need fast com, because they have bulit in effect engine rather than pure sampler.I have a Ministry of Rock, the reverb engine eat quite a bit of processing power. Normally, I will turn it off as I am used to bus out all track to a single reverb engine.

QUOTE]

Yeah, I figured the two-PC requirement is in order to run all divisions at once at 48kHz. I'm building a new Quad-core machine with 8GB that should be good enough. Now I need a bigger air-conditioner!

I'm leaning to LASS because of the glissando samples. I do a lot of avant-garde stuff and I can only go so far using pitch bend. However, I miss all the cool articulations of GOS - col legno, harmonics, sul pont., sul tasto, playing behind the bridge - etc. - though LASS says they will expand their libraries in the future. But I fear that they all go with whatever is popular in Hollywood at the moment. Garritan has said they will release "an advanced string library later this year." I'm guessing this is GOS2, announced at NAMM in 2000, and that it will have at least as many cool sounds as the original, but I dont really know. I think the ARIA player is kind of simple-minded.

 

[BKKJohn]

I think the HS,LASS,KH CSII(kontact ver) need fast com, because they have bulit in effect engine rather than pure sampler.

That's hopeful news. I run Pro Tools HD on a separate machine, so I have hardware-assisted (TDM) reverb and other processing, and I've always turned off effects in other apps.

 

[Cheez]

BKKJohn, the ARIA engine is known for it's low CPU-usage. Works even on a Netbook. And since Garritan has acquired Gigastudio, I'm sure future ARIA updates is going to be spectacular.

Gigastudio has left a sour-taste in many (me included) since Tascam decided to can it. All my investment in Giga libraries through the years almost went to waste. Even after converting to Kontakt's nki, it's never the same. Articulations and programming got twisted in the process. Tascam basically killed an excellent sampler.

 

[BKKJohn]

BKKJohn, the ARIA engine is known for it's low CPU-usage. Works even on a Netbook. And since Garritan has acquired Gigastudio, I'm sure future ARIA updates is going to be spectacular.

Gigastudio has left a sour-taste in many (me included) since Tascam decided to can it. All my investment in Giga libraries through the years almost went to waste. Even after converting to Kontakt's nki, it's never the same. Articulations and programming got twisted in the process. Tascam basically killed an excellent sampler.

I still use Giga v3 and several libraries. Dan Dean Woodwinds is good, and the Rekovic saxophones. I will build a new machine for the new libraries I am getting, and keep the old one running on Windows XP.

 

[kongwee]

http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/signup_prs_group_buy.php

There is a group buy(aka GB) going on in Kirkhunter Pop/String String. This patch use the Concert String II patches. You can say it is lite version. I bought this under GB. Enter the email. You can download the whole Pop Rock string library. You can test in demo mode in Kontakt Player for 30 min. You like that just buy the activation serial number. The only product from KH that support Kontakt Player. Of cos, this GB is for Kontakt 3.5 and above and player mode. GB end at 15 Jan 2011. Now it hit the lowest price range.

Compare to full concert II in summary.
1. A single wav may share two notes.
2. No second violin, no 2nd of any solo instrument 4 section only.
3. No auto divis, and less advance feature scripting.
4. A bit more than 8 gig in space.

I bought this as an intention to replace my EXS TVEC concert string.

 

[Cheez]

The talk of the town at this moment - LASS (now including LASS lite), Cinematic Strings, and the new DVZ (finally out after many years). I'm still using KH strings, not Concert Strings II. It's mainly programmed for divisi strings, which I don't really need. I sequence my violins 1 and 2 separately and usually don't use divisi in my composition. If I do use divisi (very occasionally), I would use 2 smaller string sections (studio strings of KH for example). More troublesome, but sufficient. But yes, KH strings is one of the best for the buck. LASS lite is quite close. The sound is really quite different - more "air" in the higher register which is beautiful. Currently, I need to EQ to get that "air" in the strings.

 

[homeboy2010]

very interesting thread !

 

[kongwee]

Other library I have bought is NI Session String. Very fast to drop layer if you don't require separate section. More for dance music. I tend to go for smaller library since big library is out of my reach. Back to Pop/rock string, I find myself actually using 5 section as 4 section string most so of the time. For mainstream song, 5 section can be too much if all are playing individual line.

 

[Cheez]

I agree using small sections for pop. I use full string sections (violins 1, violins 2, violas, cellos, double bass) only in orchestral/soundtrack pieces. For pop (of which I just completed a piece recently), I use a much smaller section - usually violins 1, violins 2, and cellos (3 sections). The cello part I write is usually in counterpoint with violins 1 and 2. So it's 2 melodic lines. No divisi. Too many lines and it does get too much for pop (messy). Double bass not needed most of the time as there's the E bass covering that.

 

[kongwee]

In most of the time, I just use single double bass pluck for pop context. If there is a bass guitar, both instrument will have to pan far apart.