Reverse Treble Bleed mod? ;)

[ShredCow]

Dudes,
We ALL know about the treble bleed mod for vol pots, to prevent, well, treble bleed when you roll the volume down.

Now, I want the opposite.

I understand though, that this MIGHT be a matter of setup/gear/pups more so than a wiring issue, so just chip in your thoughts.

 

[GC]

A treble bleed mod is to compensate for the treble loss when you roll down your volume. Shouldn't it logically follow that a 'reverse treble bleed' mod is keeping the volume pot as it it?

If you want drastic treble loss, wire your pot jazz bass style. For a passive setup the highs are naturally attenuated when you turn down the pot. Maybe the 'reverse treble bleed' mod is just a tone knob away

 

[ShredCow]

Hmmm... I'll look into the Jazz Bass wiring.

I don't require the tone pot actually, but when I want a slightly darken tone its usually when I have less gain/vol rolled down, kind of vibe. And the current setup of my vol pot don't seem to do that.

Maybe my vol pot is working totally fine, as it should, hehe...

 

[GC]

Check if your volume pot is audio or linear taper. Many ibanez's are fitted with a linear vol and audio tone. Change it out to an audio pot and it might help.

 

[ShredCow]

I'm using a Dimarzio (specifically) 250k volume pot.

The one pot (if it makes a diff) is also a Dimarzio tone pot, but 1meg, with a .22 mallory cap.

 

[GC]

This might sound dumb, but a lousy cable will also result in greater treble loss when you roll down your volume, due to the higher capacitance of the cable.

 

[penguin]

shred , the 1mg tone pots wat are its advantages???
and btw where did u get the caps???

bro u trying to get a mellow tone right? dunno if the tbx control tone set might help(its 1mg and 250 into 1)...or u can just roll down the tone pots..

 

[ShredCow]

GC, that made sense. Hehehe... I'm using these Dimarzio cables... but Jazz Bass wiring first.

penguin, apparently, some kind soul @ TGP explained to me, the 1meg tone pot would allow for a more usable sweep. Dimarzio's website recommends a 250k vol paired with a 1meg tone pot. I find the 1 meg tone to work much smoother, however, I've only tried CTS, Gotoh and those stock pots, of which their taper isn't consistant.

Dimarzio pots rock man. They cost more, but they are hardier than CTS, come with Brass tips (stronger compared to the aluminium tips of today's CTS Pots) and take up a heck lot of space in the cavity. And their taper is pretty consistant, I like it. Also, they move very smoothly.

You can get mallory from singapore i htink, but i have no idea where. You should check with Edder, GC, etc etc.

I am trying to lose more treble as I turn down my vol pot actually. As it is, when I roll my vol down, I retain enough treble to make my tone spanky, which I don't need, because I have parallel/split on my guitar.

Again, this thread is just to find out if there are such things available and/or if its just due to my gear/setup/cables/pots/etc instead.

 

[edder]

i must say... for caps used on tone controls... brands doesn't really matter.

any decent mylar/polyester cap of the RIGHT VALUE that costs less than 50 cents at simlim tower WILL work well.

 

[ShredCow]

I haven't the chance to a/b via a pushpull, but from those green poly caps to the mallory, i thought the treble roll off sounded better. More "organic" and warm, compared to the rather sterile polys.

Haha.

What am I say, its just 1 cap, change a multitude, it makes a diff, so that 1 does lah, but how much? Not much.

 

[gsonique]

All those mods will make your guitar sound bright and crappy!!
Sometimes i wonder why bother havin a Vol and Tone?? .....just straight out for those who crave elightenment....ooopss sorry ..i mean brightness
just my 2c...

 

[gsonique]

i must say... for caps used on tone controls... brands doesn't really matter.

any decent mylar/polyester cap of the RIGHT VALUE that costs less than 50 cents at simlim tower WILL work well.

the value of it does .....so be aware of which value works best for diff setups ....pick-up types.
Actually the pot value and type makes a big diff.... :wink:

 

[ShredCow]

All those mods will make your guitar sound bright and crappy!!
Sometimes i wonder why bother havin a Vol and Tone?? .....just straight out for those who crave elightenment....ooopss sorry ..i mean brightness
just my 2c...

I could just mod my guitar to have a single on/off mini toggle switch. Would that rocks your socks? :wink:

I tried 1 x 1meg vol pot before, no tone pot, dude it was glass shattering. Hehe. 1 x 500k vol with Evo neck / Evo 2 was also BAD.

 

[gsonique]

see...i knew you would agree on that

i have seen some havin odd value pots eg 300++ ~400 ...

 

[edder]

yeah... definitely the value rather than the type of capacitor. Humbucker use smaller cap value. Singles use slightly larger. Just slightly.

Also capacitors mostly have 20% tolerance if I remember correctly.

Expensive Brand A, 0.02uF may be at the high end of the tolerance eg 0.024uF
Cheapo Brand B, 0.02uF may be at the low end of the tolerance eg 0.016uF

So that means

Expensive brand A can be labelled as "warm", "organic", "smooth" because it bleeds off more treble and the one who have paid $$$ for it will use great adjectives to describe the cap. What if its cheap? "Sucks tone", "Muddy", "Muffled", "Not exciting".

Vice versa for the Cheapo Brand B. Bleeds off less treble so it can be "Harsh" blah blah blah... I'm tired of typing.

What I'm trying to say is unless if there is a scientific approach to testing with an osiloscope and capacitance measurement, and a proper sample size, the results are just a matter of feel.

Shredcow, I understand where you're coming from and you want chng up your gear in the best possible way but remember the 1001 possibilities of going one full circle and back to square one. Use the one that feels better, make you play better and the best vibe.

 

[gsonique]

Good one edder...yup also check out guitarnuts, one of the many sites with pu wiring tricks

 

[ShredCow]

There was an article online about some dude tested out various caps with an osiloscope and stuff, the results were intriguing. But I am no electronics guru and so I wouldn't know if the way he tested was in accordance with "standards" or something. Its online though. I recall he tested the old Paper oil (is that wat its called) caps and mallorys and stuff. Interesting conclusion.

Sidenote, isn't it like what wah Inductors are about? I mean, the "myth/fact" that some of the older ones sound so wonderful... some dude wrote/did research on them and got quite interesting readings that sort of explained the difference.

I do recall having a nice ceremic cap varitone, from some dude who measured them before putting them in etc etc... and it sounded way better than a varitone with green poly caps. I thought the ceremics had a nicer sound to them? But that was some time back liao, I don't recall the specifics but I think the ceremics had an "air-y" tone to them. I might be dreaming though. Hahahaha....

Shredcow, I understand where you're coming from and you want chng up your gear in the best possible way but remember the 1001 possibilities of going one full circle and back to square one. Use the one that feels better, make you play better and the best vibe.

Oh yeah, I would really want to do that, but not with that one tone pot capacitor lah. I want to know about the reverse treble bleed thing, the capacitor discussion will remain a discussion.

I assure you Edder, that I do find inspiration from whatever "vibes" i can get from silly, anal-ish things. I do adhere to, "if you can't hear it, but its supposed to make you sound/play better, just do/use/buy it." Perhaps my ears will never hear that difference of [insert obscure stupidly expensive mostly-unproven tone item here] to a [insert cheap/normal tone item here], perhaps in time to come my ears can.

I hope I'm not rubbing anyone the wrong way.

 

[gsonique]

Tell you what...you tried my Bill Lawrence Q....you like it ...just get that !!

 

[edder]

no no not at all. I was just trying to tell you of the pitfalls of chnging up until cannot chng and still end up with gear that are GREAT but still not to your expectations.

I hope I didn't rub you the wrong way... *giggles... limp wrist*

 

[ShredCow]

Tell you what...you tried my Bill Lawrence Q....you like it ...just get that !!

Dood, i would if bill or becky would kindly, ever so gracefully, reply my emails. :evil: