retubing tube amps
- Thread starter nigellum
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Whitestrat
New member
Great post! i'd like to know as well. What does one look for when considering replacement tubes?
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
preamp tubes or poweramp tubes?
i rememebered seeing a thread at the old THD forum years back when i just gotten the univale, someone came up with a list of tubes(both preamp and poweramp tubes) performance and characteristic when interchanging in the THD amps. The list was interesting for me, then.
Anyway, most likely theres something similar floating around in some amps forum waiting to be discovered.
heh, i would say that, if iam still into guitar and amp, i will choose the tubes according to my wallet size(new, old, nos tubeswhatsoever) availability in local context whether is it compatible with my amp or not and whether do i really want to go chasing round different tubes or concentrating more on doing music/recording etc.
i rememebered seeing a thread at the old THD forum years back when i just gotten the univale, someone came up with a list of tubes(both preamp and poweramp tubes) performance and characteristic when interchanging in the THD amps. The list was interesting for me, then.
Anyway, most likely theres something similar floating around in some amps forum waiting to be discovered.
heh, i would say that, if iam still into guitar and amp, i will choose the tubes according to my wallet size(new, old, nos tubeswhatsoever) availability in local context whether is it compatible with my amp or not and whether do i really want to go chasing round different tubes or concentrating more on doing music/recording etc.
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
heh, you have open up another side of tube amp which i myself also dont have much indepth knowledge.
But what i know is, basically, your tube amp is consist several different portions, put together.
For the tube part, theres usually preamp tube and poweramp tubes. For preamp tubes, you can intercchange it in general, without having to adjust anything internally on the amp circuit. Most common example of preamp tubes is 12ax7, 12at7, 12au7 and so on. Sometime they are know as other code as well, dpending on manufacturer and the country where it came from.
For the poweram part, depending on the design of the amp, theres 2 type, cathode biasing and fixed biasing. We cant just 'suka suka" change the poweramp tube and exect the amp to work at it best condistion. Theres a need to do a preocdure known as "biasing" in order for the tubes in these section to operate at the "right" voltage.
For certain amp like the THD series of amps, you dont have to do the biasing part and able to interswop different tubes to get a different feel and sound to it.
For more info on biasing, try here
The tubes in this poweramp section are the one that most folks meant when they say that they changed the tubes btw.
But what i know is, basically, your tube amp is consist several different portions, put together.
For the tube part, theres usually preamp tube and poweramp tubes. For preamp tubes, you can intercchange it in general, without having to adjust anything internally on the amp circuit. Most common example of preamp tubes is 12ax7, 12at7, 12au7 and so on. Sometime they are know as other code as well, dpending on manufacturer and the country where it came from.
For the poweram part, depending on the design of the amp, theres 2 type, cathode biasing and fixed biasing. We cant just 'suka suka" change the poweramp tube and exect the amp to work at it best condistion. Theres a need to do a preocdure known as "biasing" in order for the tubes in these section to operate at the "right" voltage.
For certain amp like the THD series of amps, you dont have to do the biasing part and able to interswop different tubes to get a different feel and sound to it.
For more info on biasing, try here
The tubes in this poweramp section are the one that most folks meant when they say that they changed the tubes btw.
toobs...
i had written a long message about toobs, and finally the PC hang and i am too lazy to write everything again. so to summarize:
1. Agree with patheinraindropmoe - music more important
2. retube and u need to consider re-bias as well. get a professional to re-bias coz its dangerous
3. changing tube - your amp circuit should guide yr choice. old tubes generally create muddy tone, new tubes are bright. replacing old ruby's with new EH and you WILL get better tone, especially if they are many years old and heavily used. So those who change out the stock tubes should be doing so coz the tone is mud. to change to new tubes immediately upon purchase? well i guess a re-bias may lead to better tone. But if you're switching out once and for all, why not?
4. switching out speakers, cables, caps etc all lead to a change in tone. have you also considered these?
which tube - well go with the amp circuit and get the appropriate tube for yr amp circuit. Some tubes are dirtier, some with more headroom, so i cannot separate the two...
Here is a quick link for you:
http://www.rocknrollvintage.com/amp-tube-charts.htm
i had written a long message about toobs, and finally the PC hang and i am too lazy to write everything again. so to summarize:
1. Agree with patheinraindropmoe - music more important
2. retube and u need to consider re-bias as well. get a professional to re-bias coz its dangerous
3. changing tube - your amp circuit should guide yr choice. old tubes generally create muddy tone, new tubes are bright. replacing old ruby's with new EH and you WILL get better tone, especially if they are many years old and heavily used. So those who change out the stock tubes should be doing so coz the tone is mud. to change to new tubes immediately upon purchase? well i guess a re-bias may lead to better tone. But if you're switching out once and for all, why not?
4. switching out speakers, cables, caps etc all lead to a change in tone. have you also considered these?
which tube - well go with the amp circuit and get the appropriate tube for yr amp circuit. Some tubes are dirtier, some with more headroom, so i cannot separate the two...
Here is a quick link for you:
http://www.rocknrollvintage.com/amp-tube-charts.htm
junkiemanxl
Active member
btw,
does sg have any dealers for tubes? I havent really seen any on the shelves or maybe i just wasn't looking.
How much do they cost on the average?
does sg have any dealers for tubes? I havent really seen any on the shelves or maybe i just wasn't looking.
How much do they cost on the average?
Gearjunkie
New member
Depending on the design of the amp, changing your preamp tubes could have a big effect on tone, especially for the overdrive channel (if your amp has one). The overdrive channels on high gain mesa boogies, for example, are largely shaped by the pre-amp.
Some people like to swap out the v1/v2 preamp tubes with lower rating tubes (e.g. 12Ax7 to 12At7) to lower the gain and/or get more clean headroom. Alot of times you get an improvement in tone with a tube switch like that.
Burlington square has two hifi shops that sell a good selection of NOS and current production vacuum tubes.
It's also cheaper to experiment with your preamp tubes first, your preamp tubes will outlast your power tubes, especially if you push your tubes hard. (NOS power tubes also tend to be more eggspensive) In my experience, you get a less discernible sonic difference when you use different power tubes, and more so when you play above a certain volume (tube saturation, breakup).
There isn't really any fixed rule as to which tubes are better, because different amps are voiced differently. Some amps really shine when you use all NOS tubes, but some sound equally good with 'cheap' chinese tubes or new production tubes.
Some people like to swap out the v1/v2 preamp tubes with lower rating tubes (e.g. 12Ax7 to 12At7) to lower the gain and/or get more clean headroom. Alot of times you get an improvement in tone with a tube switch like that.
Burlington square has two hifi shops that sell a good selection of NOS and current production vacuum tubes.
It's also cheaper to experiment with your preamp tubes first, your preamp tubes will outlast your power tubes, especially if you push your tubes hard. (NOS power tubes also tend to be more eggspensive) In my experience, you get a less discernible sonic difference when you use different power tubes, and more so when you play above a certain volume (tube saturation, breakup).
There isn't really any fixed rule as to which tubes are better, because different amps are voiced differently. Some amps really shine when you use all NOS tubes, but some sound equally good with 'cheap' chinese tubes or new production tubes.
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
for the matching of tubes, theres are some online dealers which sell "matched pair" tubes and tested by them to work nicely together(jj tubes, google for the site)
most importantly, if wanna changed the tubes, do know what your amps can use and cannot us. For some tube amps, you cant interchanged different type of the poweramp tubes. And if able to interchange, theres still need to know whether biasing is necessary or not.
And for the tone with certain tubes, its not a 'A+B=C" kinda situation. It will depend on the design of the amps and on a smaller scale, the kinda guitar, effect(if any) to get a certain sound. Theres no easy way out and this is the kinda thigns which people spend years and money to find one thats suitable to their needs.
If you are really interested to go on this path, imho, take your time, go search thru different amp forums that talk about the amp which you have and check if they have relevant info on all these. Other than amp forum, check thru some diy amp forums and tube amps article thats available via google. Theres lotsa lotsa info out there and the thing bout getting the sound you want, other than reading those, is to buy stuff, test it with your gear, music etc to know.
the shop at burlington square which sell tubes, i have heard, is prolly more in tune with hifi/audiophile amp then geetar stuff. So if checking out there, do know what sorta tubes you wanna get, in advance.
Heh, its never easy to thread on the "tone" path. End of the day, you be getting that "sound" which is you,or be more frustrated at how deep certain subject that has to do with getting the sound and make writing music(and not just playing geetar) much easier.
anyway, good luck with the search for sound!
most importantly, if wanna changed the tubes, do know what your amps can use and cannot us. For some tube amps, you cant interchanged different type of the poweramp tubes. And if able to interchange, theres still need to know whether biasing is necessary or not.
And for the tone with certain tubes, its not a 'A+B=C" kinda situation. It will depend on the design of the amps and on a smaller scale, the kinda guitar, effect(if any) to get a certain sound. Theres no easy way out and this is the kinda thigns which people spend years and money to find one thats suitable to their needs.
If you are really interested to go on this path, imho, take your time, go search thru different amp forums that talk about the amp which you have and check if they have relevant info on all these. Other than amp forum, check thru some diy amp forums and tube amps article thats available via google. Theres lotsa lotsa info out there and the thing bout getting the sound you want, other than reading those, is to buy stuff, test it with your gear, music etc to know.
the shop at burlington square which sell tubes, i have heard, is prolly more in tune with hifi/audiophile amp then geetar stuff. So if checking out there, do know what sorta tubes you wanna get, in advance.
Heh, its never easy to thread on the "tone" path. End of the day, you be getting that "sound" which is you,or be more frustrated at how deep certain subject that has to do with getting the sound and make writing music(and not just playing geetar) much easier.
anyway, good luck with the search for sound!
fehlupkid
New member
i believe it's trial and error for tube choice...
anyways, i don't think the tubes colour your sound. but it allows the amp to perform better. it's just part of the amplification. so alot lies on your amp built and circuitry.
if you want a particular tone, choose the particular amp first, not the tubes.
i've just got my winged =C= SED tubes and some other tung sol and penta flown in today for my bassman 135... woohoo!
and yes. regarding brands, my opinion. go for tungsol, abit more expensive, but worth it for the enjoyment. my Swart 5W 6V6 break ups very nicely.
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