Plunging US Economy.. Are we in trouble?

Well, for now, I ain't working for nobody. Soon-to-be under national enslavement.

Supposed to be doing investment at the moment, but... now I'm totally unsure as to what to invest in.

I haven't been following the news as I'm supposed to. Just that I happened to flip the papers today while lunching and chanced upon the news.
 
well for what its worth, there are quite a few speculations from my friends..Best is don't panic, and also erm, maybe not a good time to invest now.Best is to adopt a wait and see attitude, buy low sell high. Stocks can go much lower than what it is now. Also, currently, the market is pretty volatile.

A certain reputable insurance giant based in the US is also facing some problems now,which could affect the subs. company here in Singapore... and hopefully MAS will honor the 90% money back should anything happen to this company within the next few days. But seriously, there is no need yet for any panicky mass cash-outs now la, this can cause bigger problems.

For Asian markets, or banks for that matter, as they subscribe to a different banking structure unlike the big US investment firms that have recently filed for chapt 11, I would say that they can ride through this mess as they have better solvency and are basically cash -rich. However, there are also many questions to ask too, on whether they have enough protection against the "exposure" or "backing" with/to the failing banks in place la. Right now there may be some shaky dealings causing speculators to create a temporary crash effect for the Asian markets, but this could be only temporary.The next few days/weeks are going to be interesting.


Just wait and see la.

I'm trying hard to be as vague and as "layman" as I can, please don't quote me. Just stating my opinion.
 
My take:

Everyone will get hit - it's a matter of directly or indirectly. If you work for Lehman or Merrill Lynch in Singapore, it will be direct of course. AIA may be next. The financial services sector like banks and insurance will feel the impact. DBS for example has some product exposure to Lehman. So therefore local retail investors (the regular Joe/Jane) will be affected too.

Indirectly, all the news means the world economy will be affected (notice no more talk nowadays about Asian economy decoupling from US; when the US is hit everyone gets caught as well). So, STI is down down down. Property market will continue to drift sideways and probably downwards. Retail sector is also suffering now as local consumption is down. Fewer tourists will be seen. So, travel market and hotels will be down too.

2 things - IR and F1 - not sure how these 2 will perform.

Only things up seem to be inflation and transport costs.
 
Yeah. AIG. Even Merril Lynch man. Damn.

And thanks for going layman on me, much easier to digest. Am meeting my agent within the week to get advice, don't wanna waste my dad's cash. Heh.

[EDITED] Didn't catch your post earlier, betsybug. Agreed.
 
=snuffle

No need to be so circumspect lah ("a certain reputable...") :)
It's all in the local newspapers, BBC, online, etc. - Companies, Names, Opinions
 
jeepers=And thanks for going layman on me, much easier to digest. Am meeting my agent within the week to get advice, don't wanna waste my dad's cash. Heh.

Seems the conventional wisdom in times like these is to hold cash.
Even for those people who want to pick up bargains (buy when there's blood on the streets), they will wait a bit to see how things settle.

I really feel sorry for all those Lehman employees upon reading about how they were leaving the offices yesterday with boxes of their stuff. Lehman is nearly 160 years old - nearly as old as Singapore (reckoning from 1819).


Edit: Someone just msg'ed me to say that there are long queues outside AIA building in Singapore. Is it worse than I think? Can someone verify? Yikes!!
 
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betsy- heheh , ya I have to protect myself too.

For the record, I strongly feel that policy holders here are safe..due to SG Govt's strong regulatory arm in that industry....unless proven otherwise of course...

At this rate, it looks like anyone (company) is vulnerable, due to the domino effect (duh).

So best is just hope for the best, save money now in case of retrenchment, and hope that the newly elected US president will unleash some crazy package to save their economy come November/December, in turn saving ours too probably.

But interestingly, Crude Oil has dropped considerably, bunker appreciation surcharges/fuel related expenses will drop soon too, leading to more exports, which can salvage the GDP and increase US spending simultaneously... But then again commodities such as C.P.O and certain chemicals/oleo are now dropping in value because of this, and this can affect the SEA markets GDP considerably due to slowdown in exports. Protracted forecast exports in 2008Q1 have been over estimated and now there is some panicky over-trading going on. sheesh.

my only hope is that China and Japan do not succumb to any recession of any sort, brought about by the weaker RMB and yen against the greenback gains recently. If these 2 powerhouses fall, then we'd probably have a big problem.
 
snuffle,
Abt oil prices - they are falling because demand will be down due to worsening economic news. So it's actually indicative of black clouds not just on the horizon but overhead as well. I think OPEC will respond by pumping less as they did recently.

This from CNA:
SINGAPORE: Some Singaporeans are concerned that AIG, one of the world's largest insurers could be the next financial giant to fall after Lehman Brothers.

They have formed a queue at AIA Singapore's customer service centre at Raffles Place.

AIG is the parent of AIA Singapore.

Some long term AIA policy holders told Channel NewsAsia that they wanted to surrender their policies, even though there was a penalty for that.

Some have waited for up to three hours to be attended by staff who have been overwhelmed by requests since the office opened this morning.

<snip>

MAS said it has the legislative power to establish the policy owners' protection fund, under the Insurance Act.

However, it said that it is unable to comment on parent company AIG, which is the "ultimate parent" of AIA as it is not regulated by MAS.

from: Queues forms at AIA branch at Raffles Place
 
If AIG does collapse, Man U's jerseys will just be red color without any LOGO. "Mustapha Centre" can negotiate with Man U' board of directors for LOGO replacement.
icon10.gif
 
Betsy-

Yes but the fall in oil prices can also curb inflation albeit temporarily, and also push the demand for commodities, which is the gist of my assertion of the possibility of balancing the global economy ,previous losers will be winners and vice versa. But what you say about the calm before the storm is highly credible too, although I feel that opec cutting production is just so that they can maintain a USD 100 floor pricing for the sake of self-gains. This is their own undoing , as it caused the MNCs to adopt cut backs in the first place.

anyways, Im no expert here and I never claimed to be, or I'll be a billionaire by now, and this is all just mere speculation. Even seasoned professionals are unable to predict anything accurately and can only empirically rationalize. Sometimes, they find out that their educated-rationale can be mostly horrendously flawed.

However, Ford, GM they are all recording historical losses now, this could mean that consumers in the US are now cutting back on spending, and this could affect the high imports into USA from Asia.

So, hopefully, the temporary inflation cut , plus lower fuel costs and stronger greenback amounting to higher yield in spending on imports, could rescue the US from this sub-prime crisis(financial sector) that has reared her ugly head fully at this interesting time.

Businessmen are always keen to heed the instructive signals of crisis-hit economies of industries. lets just pray that my simplistic yet optimistic view will come true la, hahah
 
interesting views here, but in order to make sense of the news, you have to look at the entire economy as a whole and analyse it in the simplest, non-biased way possible. you do not do analysis by focusing only on the bits and pieces that are favourable to your case, while ignoring others that may change the outcome of your analysis. that is already exercising a bias.

anyway back to the topic, a question was asked and i find that it is something which is really significant, whether or not the current disaster will affect singaporeans. i will not comment on things which will affect the global economy and not singapore in particular, though it is worth noting that the dow is suffering the greatest single day losses since the great depression, which was a prelude to world war 2.

but maybe there are reasons to believe that there are factors that will affect singapore in particular. somehow everyone has forgotten that temasek holdings has invested heavily in merrill lynch

August 27, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
Temasek Holdings Pte, Singapore's $130 billion sovereign wealth fund, said it has ``great confidence'' in Merrill Lynch & Co. (NYSE: MER) Chief Executive Officer John Thain and plans to eventually raise its stake.

Actually, Temasek just received U.S. antitrust approval yesterday to raise its stake to between 13% and 14% in Merrill Lynch. Yesterday, Temasek's Michael Dee told Bloomberg Television Merrill is a "great franchise which has existed through many crises through a long period of time.''

Merrill Lynch shares have fallen 55% since Temasek's first investment on December 24. MER is currently trading around the $24 range. Temasek said its decision to increase its stake in Merrill was based on Thain and his management team.

Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc. together with its subsidiaries, provide investment, financing, insurance, and related services to individuals and institutions on a global basis through its broker, dealer, banking, and other financial services subsidiaries.
http://www.streetinsider.com/Corporate+News/Temasek+Holdings+Has+Strong+Confidence+In+Merrill+Lynch+(MER)+CEO+John+Thain/3944990.html

this is not the first time temasek has made a major blunder, with the failed singapore-suzhou industrial park in distant memory.

but i find it frightening that the merrill lynch blunder can be traced to an individual's decision.

merrill lynch has been 'saved' by bank of america. but it does not change the fact that the company has failed and that millions lost will probably never be recovered.

for those who do not know, the Fed protects financial institutions in the USA through a number of ways. the failure of a bank, especially large ones, will cause a contagion effect of bank runs, which could potentially, and in the past successfully, cripple the US economy.

should a bank fail, the Fed will save their ass in the following order

1. it will get another institution to buy over the troubled bank, such as the case of bear sterns (where the shares were sold for a ridiculously low price) and merrill lynch.

2. it will itself buy over the bank.

3. if all else fails, it will liquidate all the assets of the bank, in a bid to pay back creditors the best they can. the bank will cease to exist in whatever form.

these measures are not meant to protect the bank itself, but to protect stakeholders. it is an assurance to investors that the market would not be heavily affected by such occurrences.

it was believed that the Fed would only protect big banks from failure, but with more and more banks considered 'big', the policy was becoming ineffective.

now i return to how this could affect singapore, pointing to temasek's investment strategies.

use your reasonable mind and think; it is not unusual for an investment company to make risky investments and fail. but i find it immoral for temasek to pour millions of taxpayer money into a sinking ship.

it was arrogant and disgusting that temasek thought that merrill lynch would somehow save themselves one day no matter what happened. i just find it such a big gamble, even at the time when the decisions were made
 
Temasek in good position after Bank of America's bid for Merrill Lynch
By Ng Baoying, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 16 September 2008 2149 hrs


Related News
• US Fed pumps US$50b into financial markets
• S'pore economy may be hurt by Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch woes
• Insurance giant AIG sinking under credit downgrades

SINGAPORE: Temasek Holding's recent investment in Merrill Lynch has put it in a good position to profit from the current financial turmoil.

The Singapore fund is likely to sell its almost 14 per cent stake for shares of Bank of America as part of a deal between Bank of America and Merrill Lynch that was announced on Monday.

Temasek surprised markets when it paid US$48 a share for Merrill Lynch last December, in a deal valued at some US$4.9 billion.

But a special condition attached to the sale saw Temasek increase its stake in the global wealth management company in July. This brought down the overall price it paid to US$24 a share - that is half the original price.

The increase has made Temasek Merrill Lynch's largest shareholder.

Bank of America's US$50b offer for Merrill Lynch values the company's stock at US$29 a share, putting Temasek firmly in the money for the deal.

Unless Temasek strikes a special deal with Bank of America to hang on to its stake, it will end up with Bank of America shares in its portfolio, as part of the all-stock swap.

Temasek could then choose to sell off the shares, although analysts say it is unlikely to happen in the near term due to market volatility.

A stake in Bank of America means Temasek will own part of what will be the largest wealth management business in the world.

Other observers have called the new Bank of America a "global powerhouse of retail banking, brokerage and money management".

But there are risks, and much will depend on whether the share price of Bank of America holds up in the face of continued turmoil. Temasek has said it is premature to comment at this time.

- CNA/ir

keep your opinions coming in.
 
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I think u can trace everything to the short-sightedness of US consumers.
and M'sia's govt is on the verge of being overthrown perhaps. Wooh what an interesting week.
 
much will depend on whether the share price of Bank of America holds up in the face of continued turmoil

profit can only be gained if investor's confidence remains in bank of america. the last i remember, we are heading for a recession
 
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Vaiyen: Will get more interesting as the days pass, pal.

shinobi: Yeah. Just wanted to point out it's not a total lost cause. Nobody knows though. Fingers crossed. Dug your post, btw.

I never thought I'd see the world go into recession in my lifetime.
 
my personal FEELING is that we are lucky lah, the fed tried to put lehman up for sale but didn't succeed. u never know if the same thing could have happened elsewhere.

anyway US economy not too hot lah, i wish singapore would invest elsewhere. i just ordered a pedal from holland and realised the euro is freaking strong against the US and SG dollar. freaking 25 euro for shipping alone. australia dollar also strengthening
 
Yeah both the Euro and Aussie Dollar fckin' strong.

Bought cymbals off aussie ebay. crazy crazy man.

aye wait. just read. 25 euro just for shipping for a pedal?!
 
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