Perfect Pitch (vs relative pitch)
- Thread starter since1982
- Start date
I want to correct it here .... There IS music without a tonal key center ....
Yes, you're right. I've heard John Cage for e.g. However, for the purpose of this discussion, I'm talking specifically about tonal music. Even for the supposed atonal music, there are possible ways of hearing it in terms of key center. However for the purposes of learning relative pitch, bringing up atonal music would probably be inappropriate. however, I apologise for stating my opinion as fact. Heck at some point, jazz was even called Atonal music which was not exactly correct either.
since1982
New member
Yes John Cage.....
makes one question the definition of music
to all John Cage fans - sorry you must realise i'm a really immature amateur musician : p
I agree wif wad piano ex said.. There was this time I was asked to play a particular song in a different key so my friend already set the keyboard function to transpose from C to Ab. But when I played it as I would have played it normally in C, it felt very unnatural because wad I heard wasnt the result of my playing.. Den I couldnt tahan I turned it off and played it as per Ab.. How many of u guys oso suffer tis prob?
since1982
New member
not me.. i wouldn't even suspect that the transpose button has been messed with, i'll just happily play along. xp
some of my friends get seriously messed up in ktv sessions when i try to transpose the song to better suit their vocal range. i guess you people still have some kind of pitch memory but for me, if i ever had it has gone with the wind!
sophronesis
New member
what is your syllable for F# and Eb? is the syllable the same for the same note in different octave?
Luciela
New member
Hi all!! I came across this site by searching for perfect pitching... My pianist friend said that I might have it, but I don't know if I do because it's hard to tell as I am not formally trained in music (I have no idea what the alphabets are) but what I CAN do is the following:
- I know what notes are what and I can sing it out perfectly, but dammit, I just don't know the notation for it >: [
- I am rather sensitive to off tunes and if someone is singing off tune, I can know instantly. I think I can differentiate between the white keys and the black ones even if I don't see it
- I have an affinity for music- I can figure out what key something is being played in when I hear a sample of music, but I just don't know how to put it in alphabets/notation. -sighs in frustration- (although the keyboards/uprights I have access to can't really reproduce the exact note all the time (different keyboards and pianos have different feels but I can't explain it)
- I identify different erm... ranges(?) on a keyboard/piano by calling them right, middle and left... (don't laugh -_-) so if someone is playing something in a certain key from the left side, I know it's from the left side. The three ranges are pretty distinct...
- I can manage to play a piece of melody after hearing it a few times. I can figure out the combination to a simple tune (e.g. Taylor swift's teardrops on my guitar's entrance in less than 10 seconds- not boasting, I just did it on my cousin's keyboard yesterday!)
- I know what key corresponds with what note on the piano- even if I'm not AT the piano. It's like, I can visualise the piano keys and tune/pitch/whatever thingamajic it is and I usually tap my fingers to "practice" piano playing virtually. I do that to improve my hand-brain coordination (if there's such a thing hahaha...)
I'm not very rich and never had the opportunity to take music lessons when I was younger. In primary school, all we had was the recorder, and I used to figure out the notes to songs on my own without the scores, but I DID learn the alphabets for it (I have a feeling it's not called alphabets, right...)
Anyway, I always wanted to play the piano... Now I'm 20, and my ex school had a couple of pianos in the library (one's an upright and the other's a baby grand) so I used to pop in there once in a while to practice. I think the total number of times I've actually been in contact with a piano is less than 10 .___.
I just recently had some money from my aunt cos I managed to graduate from poly, so I just found a seller from here (YAY! I love this site!) to sell me a 2 mth old Casio CTK 700 for 150 bucks. I've ALWAYS wanted a keyboard for my own, so do you think it's a good choice for a beginner? *crosses fingers*
Anyway, phew. It was nice to get all of that out. All I want to do is to make music but everytime I want to learn notation, I see the long long texts and I feel so sian.
Sigh.
So what AM I, really?
=\
- I know what notes are what and I can sing it out perfectly, but dammit, I just don't know the notation for it >: [
- I am rather sensitive to off tunes and if someone is singing off tune, I can know instantly. I think I can differentiate between the white keys and the black ones even if I don't see it
- I have an affinity for music- I can figure out what key something is being played in when I hear a sample of music, but I just don't know how to put it in alphabets/notation. -sighs in frustration- (although the keyboards/uprights I have access to can't really reproduce the exact note all the time (different keyboards and pianos have different feels but I can't explain it)
- I identify different erm... ranges(?) on a keyboard/piano by calling them right, middle and left... (don't laugh -_-) so if someone is playing something in a certain key from the left side, I know it's from the left side. The three ranges are pretty distinct...
- I can manage to play a piece of melody after hearing it a few times. I can figure out the combination to a simple tune (e.g. Taylor swift's teardrops on my guitar's entrance in less than 10 seconds- not boasting, I just did it on my cousin's keyboard yesterday!)
- I know what key corresponds with what note on the piano- even if I'm not AT the piano. It's like, I can visualise the piano keys and tune/pitch/whatever thingamajic it is and I usually tap my fingers to "practice" piano playing virtually. I do that to improve my hand-brain coordination (if there's such a thing hahaha...)
I'm not very rich and never had the opportunity to take music lessons when I was younger. In primary school, all we had was the recorder, and I used to figure out the notes to songs on my own without the scores, but I DID learn the alphabets for it (I have a feeling it's not called alphabets, right...)
Anyway, I always wanted to play the piano... Now I'm 20, and my ex school had a couple of pianos in the library (one's an upright and the other's a baby grand) so I used to pop in there once in a while to practice. I think the total number of times I've actually been in contact with a piano is less than 10 .___.
I just recently had some money from my aunt cos I managed to graduate from poly, so I just found a seller from here (YAY! I love this site!) to sell me a 2 mth old Casio CTK 700 for 150 bucks. I've ALWAYS wanted a keyboard for my own, so do you think it's a good choice for a beginner? *crosses fingers*
Anyway, phew. It was nice to get all of that out. All I want to do is to make music but everytime I want to learn notation, I see the long long texts and I feel so sian.
Sigh.
So what AM I, really?
=\
Last edited:
Cheez
Moderator
Luciela, obviously you have a very good ear. And I'm not surprised that with some formal training (ie at least knowing what notes are), you may find out you have perfect pitch.
However, perfect pitch, like many things, is pointless in itself. The question is what we do with it. A combination of different skills used together will yeild best results.
As to your comment on long texts which are "sian", well, I agree. Most theory books aren't designed to be user friendly, unfortunately. Fastest (and least boring) way is to get somebody sit with you to teach you. I'm teaching my primary 1 son music - beginner. When I went to all the theory textbooks, I just give up. So I'm resorting to my own method of theory teaching I used to teach when I was in school. Makes it more interesting for him. 2 lessons and his knowledge of key-signatures jumped from grade 0 to grade 4.
A good ear is a very good asset. Coupled with good playing skills, you'll be able to play any song by ear. Coupled with good theory and a bit of creativity, you'll find you can compose songs easily.
However, perfect pitch, like many things, is pointless in itself. The question is what we do with it. A combination of different skills used together will yeild best results.
As to your comment on long texts which are "sian", well, I agree. Most theory books aren't designed to be user friendly, unfortunately. Fastest (and least boring) way is to get somebody sit with you to teach you. I'm teaching my primary 1 son music - beginner. When I went to all the theory textbooks, I just give up. So I'm resorting to my own method of theory teaching I used to teach when I was in school. Makes it more interesting for him. 2 lessons and his knowledge of key-signatures jumped from grade 0 to grade 4.
A good ear is a very good asset. Coupled with good playing skills, you'll be able to play any song by ear. Coupled with good theory and a bit of creativity, you'll find you can compose songs easily.
Luciela
New member
Hehe... good morning pf, yes, I've clicked on those links, but unfortunately, I have no idea how to do the tests!!
I can't read music you see... I know the do-re-mi-fa-so for the first one with the study by that University, but I don't know which key is which... If they play a note, I know if it'd do, or re, or mi, but not which set it is in. I have no idea what is A or C... I call them... sets; whereby left ro right is 1 - 5 and there's an extra unknown key on the rightmost side that I have no idea what tune it is in.
So you see it's pretty hard for me to know if I have perfect pitch or not
And, yes!! Gonna collect it soon, but I need a bag because the dude threw away his old one.. so sad. Do you know where I can get keyboard covers too?
I can't read music you see... I know the do-re-mi-fa-so for the first one with the study by that University, but I don't know which key is which... If they play a note, I know if it'd do, or re, or mi, but not which set it is in. I have no idea what is A or C... I call them... sets; whereby left ro right is 1 - 5 and there's an extra unknown key on the rightmost side that I have no idea what tune it is in.
So you see it's pretty hard for me to know if I have perfect pitch or not
And, yes!! Gonna collect it soon, but I need a bag because the dude threw away his old one.. so sad. Do you know where I can get keyboard covers too?
Last edited:
Luciela
New member
Hello Cheez, a good morning to you!
Yes, what exactly is perfect pitch and why do people talk so much about it? And hehe, yeah, I kinda agree that it would be rather useless if someone doesn't know what to do with it... =\
I feel so handicapped because I can't read notes besides the do-re-mi (LOL) but... haiz... everytime I see those long texts I feel like going down to get a cup of coffee and not looking at it again. zzz.
I'm not a book learner- I can memorise exact lines in books (e.g. definitions) but that's about all I subject myself to. I really hate mugging or trying to understand from a book as I prefer the 'human touch'. Haha. I believe learning through example is the best and I realised that's the only way I can truly learn well! However, music teachers are rather pricey, and not something I can afford. I'm not working yet as I've just graduated from poly.
I'm not really keen to learn music formally as well, because it is just this big, difficult hurdle that I can just avoid since I can play the piano even without knowledge of it... so I kinda find it redundant sometimes as my main aim is to decipher songs and play it out.
However, when it comes to playing long stretches of melodies and using two hands, that's when I start getting frustrated because I don't really know how to use two hands. I can try to just... anyhow press, and usually it sounds about the same, but then I have trouble switching back and forth...
As for composing, I've tried before, a couple of recordings, but they're pretty generic. I can't really call them compositions because I don't know the notation for it, but I just hear the melody in my head and I play it out... of sorts. Then I will forget it. Zzzz.
Also I have no idea how people play with notes... How can they look at the thing and then play? xD
Won't it be difficult to look and press?
Maybe it's something like using a computer keyboard- I can pretty much type without looking at the keys, but I need to have my vision somewhere around it to confirm the placing... does it work the same way with piano players?
Anyway guys, thanks for answering my silly questions.... hehe... good day to you all!!!
^_^
Yes, what exactly is perfect pitch and why do people talk so much about it? And hehe, yeah, I kinda agree that it would be rather useless if someone doesn't know what to do with it... =\
I feel so handicapped because I can't read notes besides the do-re-mi (LOL) but... haiz... everytime I see those long texts I feel like going down to get a cup of coffee and not looking at it again. zzz.
I'm not a book learner- I can memorise exact lines in books (e.g. definitions) but that's about all I subject myself to. I really hate mugging or trying to understand from a book as I prefer the 'human touch'. Haha. I believe learning through example is the best and I realised that's the only way I can truly learn well! However, music teachers are rather pricey, and not something I can afford. I'm not working yet as I've just graduated from poly.
I'm not really keen to learn music formally as well, because it is just this big, difficult hurdle that I can just avoid since I can play the piano even without knowledge of it... so I kinda find it redundant sometimes as my main aim is to decipher songs and play it out.
However, when it comes to playing long stretches of melodies and using two hands, that's when I start getting frustrated because I don't really know how to use two hands. I can try to just... anyhow press, and usually it sounds about the same, but then I have trouble switching back and forth...
As for composing, I've tried before, a couple of recordings, but they're pretty generic. I can't really call them compositions because I don't know the notation for it, but I just hear the melody in my head and I play it out... of sorts. Then I will forget it. Zzzz.
Also I have no idea how people play with notes... How can they look at the thing and then play? xD
Won't it be difficult to look and press?
Maybe it's something like using a computer keyboard- I can pretty much type without looking at the keys, but I need to have my vision somewhere around it to confirm the placing... does it work the same way with piano players?
Anyway guys, thanks for answering my silly questions.... hehe... good day to you all!!!
^_^
Last edited:
pf
New member
Perfect pitch or relative pitch....have or don't have.....I don't think it should matter too much to you right now.
What is important to get started is identify the keys on the keyboard and read at least a fake sheet (treble clef music notes and chords). Or else you will just get stuck doodling melodies on the keyboard with your right hand.
What is important to get started is identify the keys on the keyboard and read at least a fake sheet (treble clef music notes and chords). Or else you will just get stuck doodling melodies on the keyboard with your right hand.
YouTube - Blind 5 Year Old Korean Girl Pianist - Child Genius
This might be a little off-topic, but it seems tat this lil gal has wat u all might call 'perfect-pitch', although i still dun really understand wat u ppl are talking about lol. Anywayz, it's quite a pity cause she's blinded, but i guess she was rewarded in another way.
Oh, and sorry if i kinda brought up an old thread ><
This might be a little off-topic, but it seems tat this lil gal has wat u all might call 'perfect-pitch', although i still dun really understand wat u ppl are talking about lol. Anywayz, it's quite a pity cause she's blinded, but i guess she was rewarded in another way.
Oh, and sorry if i kinda brought up an old thread ><
kerplunk182
New member
I watched that video a couple of days ago... Very sad and touching. *sheds a tear*
pianomankris
New member
No-one has mentioned microtonal music. Not all music is based on the 12-TET division of the octave.
And no-one has, as yet, addressed the issue of A440, and that it wasn't 440Hz in Mozart's day. This gives a different slant on the issue of perfect pitch.
There are possible ways of hearing any form of music as having a key center. This in no way explicitly implies that the music actually does have a key center as such.
Cheez
Moderator
As I said before, A440 or A442 etc doesn't affect perfect pitch or ability to tell the pitch. The ears adjust. Different orchestras in different part of the world tune to different frequencies of concert A. 440 is certainly not the only standard. Europe and American orchestras tune from 338 to 443.
pianomankris
New member
That is my point. If 'the ears adjust', this would imply that such a sense of pitch is purely relativistic, rather than absolute, as if the sense of pitch was absolute, there would be problems with music pitched at slightly different frequencies.
Can someone with perfect pitch tell the difference between A440, A338, or A443?
If not, then it surely must be concluded that 'perfect pitch' doesn't exist (unless there is a human who can distinguish a difference of 1Hz between notes), but all that exists is a very highly developed sense of relative pitch.
From my understanding, by early childhood (age 5/6; Blake/Sekuler; 'perception'), the ear has already 'learned' what the smallest interval is/intervals are - if it is exposed to music where semitones are the smallest unit, then it will accept semitones as the smallest change of pitch, and anything in between would be 'out of tune'.
It would be interesting if there was a pitch test where not only semitones were included, but quarter tones also. I think this would surely settle the case for good.
