Perfect Pitch (vs relative pitch)

Ahhhh.....yes, thanks KC and Cheez for your explanations.

Cheez, remember I wanted to learn how to recognise the key of a tune when I hear it? Would that be relative or perfect pitch you use when you do that?
 
Pf, it can be either. Perfect pitch person will tell you the key immediately without any cue. For relative, you'll need an instrument to help you. ie - hear a song, you play a note on your keyboard (say C), then you can figure it out using relative pitch.
 
Since 1982:

To answer your question, think of a Cmin6 as an inversion of Amin7b5. They have the exact same notes.

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Present a typical jazz standard to a classical music student who has perfect pitch. They can transcribe the piece quite easily.

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By being able to hear one note, soon(maybe years) you'll be hear a stack which is chords. Key center is much more important than interval training. Typically classical interval training has no key center and the brain assumes the first note to be the root as there are no chords over the 2 intervals. There are many melodies which don't start on the root note, so how?

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Take another melody, rudolph the red nosed reindeer. It goes, so la so mi do la so, so la so la so do ti for the first 2 bars. Imagine you use the interval method and use 'Do' as a starting point. It'll be all wrong as one has failed to identity that the starting melody note is a 5th or So.

Ear training is best done with a chord progression going on either in the mind or being physically played.
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KC

KC -
yes now that you put it that way! argh sometimes i'm defeated by simple permutations.. thanks a whole bunch for that (:

OH and btw, i really doubt the typical classical student (anyway the typical local classical student) would have an easy time transcribing any given piece. from my experience classical players here are much too dependent on their visual skills.. they usually play what's given. i've only come to know of transcriptions myself when i took O levels music.. when it was made part of the exams (that's the sad part again, whatever isn't covered in exams are usually skimmed through.)

the other odd thing is, picking out chord-types (like, that's a minor, maj7, back to min etc) comes by easier than i can pick out individual notes.. and i get stumped when i have to groped around for that Specific minor or maj7 chords i have to play (like was it Em or Am?) sometimes the basic progression helps, cos sometimes feeling around the keyboard is enough. but i hate it when something new gets thrown in and i stumble. but then again i suspect this is one problem that can be solved if you're more well versed in the many varied progressions there are, in rock/pop/jazz/etc.. (which boils down to more practice again!)

Having a sense of 'key center' is undeniably important, but kind of limiting, seeing how our key centers rarely escapes the typical major/minor modes.. but still i can see how it would really help in training for relative pitch

btw since you brought up this topic, the 'la' in a major scale is the 'doh' of a minor scale right?

thanks for your inputs btw.. i've really learnt alot through all these posts

and that's to you cheez and pf and piano_ex and others who chipped in as well, thanks alot!

Arigatou!
m(._.)m アリガト
 
Cheez -

i've actually heard that singing in Db rather than in C is way easier for singers.. although i have no idea how true that is, and i hope it's not the case cos Db is a key i always try to -avoid- lol

that is kinda freaky about having to retune your ears? (;o_o) but that's something new too.. i hope it doesn't take much effort to 'retune'!

thanks for the encouragement.. i'll surely share it someday if i ever learn/acquire perfect pitch.. but from what i've read i'll be really really glad to have a really sharp sense of relative pitch. doesn't seem easy (:
 
hope u pass the test. lol

nope i didn't! lol! wasn't expecting to.. when they played the tones i was randomly pressing on the notes... (;o_o) lol!

but look at what the survey questions included:
16) Do you have synesthesia (cross-sensory perception, e.g. perceiving notes as color)?

isn't that what Cheez was trying to describe?

i wouldn't have guessed that anyone could be capable of such cross-sensory perceptions.. sound so sci-fi! very interesting nonetheless and i can't wait to experience that!

that is, if it can be acquired/learned..
 

pf how did you come upon these links? they're really fun and thanks alot for sharing! (:

btw this test your intervals training.. there's one trick we used to do (when i was doing O levels music). we were taught to attach the intervals to certain songs like perfect 4th would be the starting to the wedding march (doh - fa fa fa)

we used that to train cos we can't hear for nuts (T_T)

but they worked!
 
hey pf the intervals ear training - is it a never ending test?

i tried for a 100 intervals and decided to stop.. i got 86% correct mostly stumped by minor 6ths/7ths (ocassionally min2) and the weird tritone which quickly became evident cos it's the weirdest sounding pair..
 
the tritone is often used in jazz arrangement. If you're a classical pianist, your ear won't be accustomed to it....

And since being a tritone, which means the interval is 3 whole tones away, there are times when the notes are of different keys.....i.e....C in F key, then the tritone would be F#....not in F key.
 
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nah i got through alot using the 'cheats' i described earlier

like maj 6 = starting part to "my bon---" (my bonnie lies over the ocean)

sad right! lol (: omgosh!
what pieces are you practising btw?
 
the tritone is often used in jazz arrangement. If you're a classical pianist, your ear won't be accustomed to it....

And since being a tritone, which means the interval is 3 whole tones away, there are times when the notes are of different keys.....i.e....C in F key, then the tritone would be F#....not in F key.

OKhay.. no wonder the weird sound
thanks for that (:
 
I'm dreaming of a white christmas,
Hark the herald angels sing,
Silent nite,
For unto us a child is born,
and the one....Gloooooria, in excelsis deo....forgot the title.
 
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