"Pay to perform" ???

[FluxUs]

yeah this stuff is ultimately all abt demand and supply. i will never waste time attending such things (who wants to go listen to some joker murder Bon Jovi or the lastst emo punk pop) but still they go on and on and on regardless of how much vitriol and anger we spew. buzzards n vultures go where the corpses are.

fact is most organisers of 'proper' gigs hardly ever if ever make any money, dont talk abt losing as little money as possible. and after a while you just get tired and drained from doing so.

this is just like the whole internet download age, bands really gotta do things for themselves....the record companies, promoters etc all slowly disappearing..........

 

[lummer]

yup, the only way to go like paid sex.

Hello lordie... That is a little too much information. Don't forget there are "young aspiring bands" in this thread that probably not at a legal age to engage in such activities. Be the way... i don't encourage you guys to do that hor...

 

[lummer]

[QUOTE=FluxUs

Hi FluxUS... Great to see your level headed perspective views. I totally agree that its a supply and demand thingy. Cut the demands and the supply will stop.

 

[FluxUs]

what is both exciting and frightening simultaneously is the eventual disappearance of such institutions which had before aggregated and disseminated content and info. so somehow that meant besides having 'standards' there was financial clout to be able to then 'spot', 'develop' and promote artists (by this i also mean well-run indie labels).......

duuno abt anyone else thoughts on this but somehow this new era means its much easier to kickstart something but really 'making it' becomes helluva lot harder................

 

[lummer]

[QUOTE=FluxUs

Agree... But this so call new era is what the bands wanted... to get paid to play... I believe to kickstart is gonna be hard as well. It will end up with bands without performing opportunities becoz all they care about is to be paid to play to stroke their egos...

 

[lordie]

my band murdered justin timberlake song and the crowd loves it!

maybe i am just old school. honestly i dun see a problem with pay to play gig. i mean some bands might think its worth the investment to pay to play instead of pay to record *grinz*. Or they calculate their ROI and deems it a good investment from the band to play to a crowd of 10?15?20? ppl? And if they are really good their fanbase might increase? *grinz*.

i play in a gig that got very pathetic crowd before. but thx god we dun pay for it! Bad ROI!

at the end its up to the band to decide. if years after years of gigging and still do pay to play gig, than eerrr.... than the band need to sit down to re-evaluate.

but it be easier if a band leader. lead and take charge of the band, fall or flop is in his hand. the rest of the band just focus on writing new material, perfecting their craft and follow directions that has been set-out by the leader.

ROI or payment big or small. the band leader will decide is it worth the time, resource and investment and seek inputs from the band eg) our philippine tour, we pay for our own airfare but hotel, transport, some beer $$ is included also they throw in "adult entertainment" into the mix! so we can party like a rockstar! *grinz* and we also have a rule we dun gig more than 4-5 times a year, and focus on writing new material, etc..etc..

a good $ management is to set-up a band fund, every mth $50? $20. that can be used for recording? pay to play gig? travel expenses for overseas gig? building merchandise and whatever we make we plough it back to the band fund and see how that kitty pot grows. if your kitty always need to be top-up than the band need to re-evaluate their pay to play strategy.

 

[lummer]

[QUOTE=lordie

Ah... now you are talking! What you guys have in place is a very good model for "Young Aspiring Bands" to know! THis is what i call positive comments... I am very impressed with the Band fund and so on... very organized and great for building relationships w your bandmates and of coz touring together as well! I like the idea!

 

[PunkRockDude]

O$P$ - Owe money pay money

P$PG - Pay money perform gig

haha:-D
_______________________________________________________
macdonald guy said: Hi welcome to macdonald, wat the F*** do u wan?

 

[recklessnick]

Yo recklessnick... Cannot like tat say lar... THere are great bands here that can demand for huge performing fee... Its not fair to comment like that as some are professional musicians here... don't prey prey...

really meh? i didnt know those existed

 

[FluxUs]

no Lordie, i'm sure u didnt just murder Timberlake song, surely u also disembowelled it after dissecting it and then consuming it before necro-vomitting it out again? hahaha u mustve murdered and post-murdered it! i'm sure theres some whiny emo song out there waiting for it from you guys........


on the issue of gigs, think last time it was more play to get paid then became play for free exposure mah now even that option is disappearing............

 

[lummer]

[QUOTE=FluxUs

Market sentiment i guess... Last time got great bands doing covers Top40's and all. The market demands such bands and i believe till now is still in demand if bands can be tight and do great covers... Now bands like to do their originals and perhaps the masses cannot accept, the songs are not up to standard (By saying not up to standard doesn't mean its lousy but maybe the arrangement is not interesting enough) or simply sucks... So slowly it became "Boys... U guys have to Pay to play coz your band sucks and i am doing you guys a favor by letting you go on stage."

 

[PunkRockDude]

Damn....Lammer is so mean....
___________________________
$%^$#%&#$&#$^#@%%$@%$

 

[lummer]

Damn....Lammer is so mean....
___________________________
$%^$#%&#$&#$^#@%%$@%$

PunkRockDude...
I not mean lar... Just stating the facts bro... Musicians all got ego problem and i too am guilty as charged... In many occasions we chose to ignore the facts and live in our lah lah land...

Look at it this... Singapore's top musicians are struggling as well, i am not referring to this economic meltdown but in general. So what makes us "the so-call pros or self-proclaimed pros" think its going to be easy?! If we are damn good musicians also cannot guarantee us a stable job in Singapore. Most of the top dogs in Singapore are not exactly doing local productions or gigs.

The market is so small here... Let's take about music shops alone and not even mentioning playing gigs or the music scene here... Me being a drummer have almost never never walked into local music shops and found what i am looking for let alone able to try it. Most of the time we have to commit our finance by placing a deposit on buying something we only read reviews about and never really tried before. (Therefore a good market for secondhand equipment... hahaha)

For those who been to Tom lee in HK, it's much better and so i thought... But wait... 2 months back i was in Korea and when to this place call Insadong where they sell musical instruments... That place is a freaking Drummers Fantasy!!! Seriously, every freaking drumkit u can imagine are all there on display and u can actually demo it before you commit yourself in buying... And i can almost guarantee you will empty your pockets and max out your credit card. For those guitarist... Your eyes will popped out of your sockets man! Or maybe not really lar coz locally the guitars got quite a good selection already... This is just Korea and not to mention there are Australia, USA and all... they have huge music shops that will blow our brains into bits just by walking into one!

But what i am trying to say is... Our local music market is so small that even music shops are not able to bring in stuffs let alone demo the equipments... Not that local music shops cannot effort to do that but its too risky and doesn't make economic sense to invest 100 to 200K of equipments for display and hoping people will buy...

So this is local music market for us Singaporeans!! Suck thumb bros... suck thumb!!

 

[deltadelta]

The bands in the 80s and 90s experience the best time being musician because that was the era where local musician is constantly sought by clubs and bar. And the old timer always told me that the 80s era was a really happening scene for musician.
Now its different musician is having a tough time to get contracts in the clubs....my bands have not gotten any contracts for clubs or corporate events for the past few months although the band consist of experience old timers minus me lah of course.......veli sad

 

[gothviruz]

Actually some 'Pay to Play' isn't totally pay to play, especially when it involves ticket selling. Some organizers sell xx tickets to bands at a lower price, then these bands sell to their frens at the published rates (higher than the cost price) and bands can keep the profits. So, bands actually get 'paid' to play.. in some instances.

The real 'Pay to Play' is like, "bands pay $xx of flat fee", juz to play in gigs.. the only gain they get is crowd turn out.

 

[North]

Musician
-noun
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.

Career
-noun
an occupation or profession

Gig
-noun
a single professional engagement, usually of short duration, as of jazz or rock musicians.

Many people who play music become musicians..
Many musicians decide to do music as a career..
A few make it big -- and a big lot fail to make it there..
Pay-to-play is just another part of the process -- it's like an kind of investment for promoting yourself.. And train your 'performance' aspect of your musicianship..
Most of the time at 'pay-to-play' gig, we see bands that is standing rock still literally 'plays' the music. We also have a 'crowd' that doesn even give a ............
If you successfully blow up the place, you would have a chance to continue makin it big..
(Probably, your name will be remembered -- you'll be asked or "paid-to-play" next time round)
If not, maybe, go online and complain about the scene and that you paid so much just to play for an inert audience..
It's just a part of the system, I guess.. Some retreat, some stuck there, some move on--

 

[lummer]

YES[/SIZE]...

 

[lummer]

[QUOTE=North

Yo North... Well written post... I enjoy and totally agree with what you are saying... Its a process of which a young band will go through if they want to move on further... Putting themselves out there and be expose to the scene to gain experience as well as recognition if they are good... and if they are not... its also a good thing as they can access on the criticisms made and make changes to work things out.

 

[kongwee]

Sometime some band got jealous why simple sing and play got invited.:mrgreen:

 

[gothviruz]

Actually there are things that bands do not realise.. the overhead cost organisers need to fork out just to make a gig happen..

- gig venue (deposit is required to book a venue)
- stage set ups (drums + amps , etc) (deposit also required)
- promotion (flyers, posters)
- producing of tickets (printing, etc)
- manpower
- food and beverages (if any)
- permit by COMPASS (this is a must if bands are playing cover songs)
- other permit by other authorities
- other misc things

Unless organizers have SPONSORS, where do u think the money come from? So actually when bands are required to help sell tickets or 'pay to play', it is also to help making the gig happen.

Not all organizers are out there to earn profits thru ticket selling. Much of the bucks are to cover the overhead costs.

And as someone mentioned earlier, bands have to start somewhere to go somewhere.. just think about it.

My 2.5 cents worth only..