Opinion Needed on Fender strat..
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penta-tonic
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kank_39, to answer ur question i have undertaken a very long journey to discover all these. i will make a few statements and whether u believe or not is another thing. ok first i will abt pickcups den go on to amps.
i believe that the pickup u use just defines whatever sound u prefer be it humbucker with the inherent muddy or midrangy sound or singles which have this almost glassy and rich transparent sound. i have been using humbucker guitars all my guitaring days until just last week when i modded my prs to put in singles. yes flame me if u find this sacrilege ahaha. well i always wondered how come my output was always muddy and attributed this to using lousy pickups. i felt that prs pickups were lousy thus i changed to duncans. it did make my sound better but then the muddiness was still there. no matter how much i eq-ed. i tried my frens guitars too and i realised that was the case, but i noticed that none of my frens were using singles so i undertook the journey to try strats.
and thus i came to the conclusion that singles was my type of pickups. cos the problem with humbuckers is that they r wired with opposing phases to cancel out noise, but if u listen carefully more than cancelling out noise it also makes the pickups less sensitive if u may put it thus capturing very much less nuances and also muddiying the sound having double the amount of the same output. but i never changed until only recently cos my plight is playing metal and with hi gain settings, singles r just too noisy with the hum. yes playing at bedroom settings may not be that obvious and bearable but i do occasionally crank my amps during the weekend and at loud volumes the hum is just plain painful. but recently i searched for noiseless singles and that search led me to kinmans. they sound exactly like singles if not very much better. (for a sample go to open mic and listen to chanmins recording, really amazing neck lead tones there)
ok another important part in my sound would be my peavey ultra 112 high gain full tube amp. when i first started out i got a pretty good practice amp which was the ibanez toneblaster 25r which had ok sounding reverb and pretty high gain distortion. but when i started gigging i looked to pedals buying multi effects and single distortion units. but done were not satisfactory in getting the levels of gain i needed. after almost a whole year of trying i came to the conclusion that only an amp was good enough cos after all, distortion units were meant to model an amps gain circuitry.
(this would apply in most cases of distortion pedals. hi gain amps work in the method of gain stages. the reason for such smooth gain is stacking abt 4-5 low gain stages [6 in the case of the peavey 5150] to get a high gain sound which is not brittle or harsh. problem with most distortion is they develop a circuitry to take the short cut but that way all u get is horrible harsh sound no matter how much mids is injected. i also swear by tubes btw cos they have this natural compression which does wonders to ur sound. unless u can find a multiple gain stage pedal for eg mi audio crunch box, the rest just wont do)
that speaking of gain i came to certain conclusions. gain for metal levels for gain comes purely from the amp. never the pickup. the pickup is there to enable u to capture ur playing thus i also stress good pickups are important. heres another point. u dont need high output pickups to play metal. with high output pickups usually the cleans r compromised by early breakup or a really fuzzy rough sound when u strum hard on clean and lesser cleanup when the volume is rolled off. and with high output there is more noise from pickups. this combined with high gain distortion would just amount to noise, not metal. there is a difference. many people think hi gain is just noise, but if u listen carefully even hi gain can be very clean and clear in a way which every note rings out and is separable. thats where humbucker chunk comes from. cos a humbucker is muddy and the notes r not too clear it brings out this really thick chunk of sound which most love for palm muting and the like. hot pickups only work to compromise the signal. let the amp do the gain work. the work of a pickup is to capture the players nuances like the pick attack. i learn this from reading an interview with malmsteen and ill give him total credit for being such a genius both technically and sonically.
also talking abt sustain since this seems to be such an issue in these forums. with humbuckers less sustain can be achieved cos theres double the amount of magnets pulling on the string as opposed to singles. this is also inherent when stronger magnets such as ceramics is used and especially when they come as bar magnets instead of individual pole pieces.
dang! cleared the air all at one take. my apologies for making this so long winded and such. guess i wanted to address the topic of achieving tones for metal but this is also applicable for other forms of guitar cos this topic seems to be approached pretty often but always looking at the components seperately but rather i see an importance that all these individual components have to be considered with the other components in mind too. hope this helps guys. and feel free to disagree if u find any of the points contrary to what u otherwise feel. this is a journey for me and its far from over so id love to learn as much as i can.
-Ji
i believe that the pickup u use just defines whatever sound u prefer be it humbucker with the inherent muddy or midrangy sound or singles which have this almost glassy and rich transparent sound. i have been using humbucker guitars all my guitaring days until just last week when i modded my prs to put in singles. yes flame me if u find this sacrilege ahaha. well i always wondered how come my output was always muddy and attributed this to using lousy pickups. i felt that prs pickups were lousy thus i changed to duncans. it did make my sound better but then the muddiness was still there. no matter how much i eq-ed. i tried my frens guitars too and i realised that was the case, but i noticed that none of my frens were using singles so i undertook the journey to try strats.
and thus i came to the conclusion that singles was my type of pickups. cos the problem with humbuckers is that they r wired with opposing phases to cancel out noise, but if u listen carefully more than cancelling out noise it also makes the pickups less sensitive if u may put it thus capturing very much less nuances and also muddiying the sound having double the amount of the same output. but i never changed until only recently cos my plight is playing metal and with hi gain settings, singles r just too noisy with the hum. yes playing at bedroom settings may not be that obvious and bearable but i do occasionally crank my amps during the weekend and at loud volumes the hum is just plain painful. but recently i searched for noiseless singles and that search led me to kinmans. they sound exactly like singles if not very much better. (for a sample go to open mic and listen to chanmins recording, really amazing neck lead tones there)
ok another important part in my sound would be my peavey ultra 112 high gain full tube amp. when i first started out i got a pretty good practice amp which was the ibanez toneblaster 25r which had ok sounding reverb and pretty high gain distortion. but when i started gigging i looked to pedals buying multi effects and single distortion units. but done were not satisfactory in getting the levels of gain i needed. after almost a whole year of trying i came to the conclusion that only an amp was good enough cos after all, distortion units were meant to model an amps gain circuitry.
(this would apply in most cases of distortion pedals. hi gain amps work in the method of gain stages. the reason for such smooth gain is stacking abt 4-5 low gain stages [6 in the case of the peavey 5150] to get a high gain sound which is not brittle or harsh. problem with most distortion is they develop a circuitry to take the short cut but that way all u get is horrible harsh sound no matter how much mids is injected. i also swear by tubes btw cos they have this natural compression which does wonders to ur sound. unless u can find a multiple gain stage pedal for eg mi audio crunch box, the rest just wont do)
that speaking of gain i came to certain conclusions. gain for metal levels for gain comes purely from the amp. never the pickup. the pickup is there to enable u to capture ur playing thus i also stress good pickups are important. heres another point. u dont need high output pickups to play metal. with high output pickups usually the cleans r compromised by early breakup or a really fuzzy rough sound when u strum hard on clean and lesser cleanup when the volume is rolled off. and with high output there is more noise from pickups. this combined with high gain distortion would just amount to noise, not metal. there is a difference. many people think hi gain is just noise, but if u listen carefully even hi gain can be very clean and clear in a way which every note rings out and is separable. thats where humbucker chunk comes from. cos a humbucker is muddy and the notes r not too clear it brings out this really thick chunk of sound which most love for palm muting and the like. hot pickups only work to compromise the signal. let the amp do the gain work. the work of a pickup is to capture the players nuances like the pick attack. i learn this from reading an interview with malmsteen and ill give him total credit for being such a genius both technically and sonically.
also talking abt sustain since this seems to be such an issue in these forums. with humbuckers less sustain can be achieved cos theres double the amount of magnets pulling on the string as opposed to singles. this is also inherent when stronger magnets such as ceramics is used and especially when they come as bar magnets instead of individual pole pieces.
dang! cleared the air all at one take. my apologies for making this so long winded and such. guess i wanted to address the topic of achieving tones for metal but this is also applicable for other forms of guitar cos this topic seems to be approached pretty often but always looking at the components seperately but rather i see an importance that all these individual components have to be considered with the other components in mind too. hope this helps guys. and feel free to disagree if u find any of the points contrary to what u otherwise feel. this is a journey for me and its far from over so id love to learn as much as i can.
-Ji
Thanks for the informative post there, Ji. I agree with you that single coils tend to be more articulate in picking up the picking nuances, which explains why a lot blues guitars swear by strats because single coils helps to bring the emotion out. And it makes sense to let the amp do the gain/distortion while the pickup do the signal manipulation. Maybe I'll go back and A/B between singles and humbuckers as I've never really compared the two specifically. However, I doubt I would use the single coil for metal since my amp is a tube amp emulator (old marshall valvestate)and the overdrive channel just isn't cutting enough gain to chug.
penta-tonic
New member
ahaha. glad to be of help. anyway ill post a few pics of my stratified prs later when i get home.
and btw kank_39, if u find that u prefer single coils more stick with them. dun stick to humbuckers just cos ur amp is a tube amp emulator. its best to start with a really good signal. anyway have fun in experimenting. ull see that singles r also more forgiving on more amps than humbuckers.
metal is in the player, not the guitar. one recent artist ive been listening to is john 5. uses a tele on his work with manson and his solo album. hi gain chickin' pickin' y'all ahahahaha.
and btw kank_39, if u find that u prefer single coils more stick with them. dun stick to humbuckers just cos ur amp is a tube amp emulator. its best to start with a really good signal. anyway have fun in experimenting. ull see that singles r also more forgiving on more amps than humbuckers.
metal is in the player, not the guitar. one recent artist ive been listening to is john 5. uses a tele on his work with manson and his solo album. hi gain chickin' pickin' y'all ahahahaha.
Its such a contradictary thing for malmy when he says single coils = articulate, and then he turns all his marshalls to 11 and uses a DOD pedal (all knobs to 11) and then uses 2 x NS-2 pedals (or has he upgraded to ISP decimators?) to get the level of gain he wants. His tone is uber compressed: what dynamics/articulation?
Also, yeah, its true, low output pups with hi gain pedals/amps = metal tones or heavy stuff. On the other hand, penta, you would also note, humbuckers = more compressed tones. Thats one of the reasons metal players prefer hi output pups, though, as what you said, not necessary. The compression aids in getting more body in power chords and increasing overal chunk/chug. Plus bass helps.
While I agree with you that single coils = aritculate and you should NEVER compromise on your root tone, I personally cannot get used to a single coil in the bridge. Too thin, un-naturally tight and little bass. I don't care who uses single coils for metal, but it ain't working for me.
Also, if you eq your gear to suit your bridge single, more mids/bass/body, your neck single suffers from excess flab: bane of strat owners for ages. Anyway, single coils in the neck @ the 24th fret sweet spot = excellent tones. I do wish my Saber was H-S-S. FGM400 anyone?
Also, yeah, its true, low output pups with hi gain pedals/amps = metal tones or heavy stuff. On the other hand, penta, you would also note, humbuckers = more compressed tones. Thats one of the reasons metal players prefer hi output pups, though, as what you said, not necessary. The compression aids in getting more body in power chords and increasing overal chunk/chug. Plus bass helps.
While I agree with you that single coils = aritculate and you should NEVER compromise on your root tone, I personally cannot get used to a single coil in the bridge. Too thin, un-naturally tight and little bass. I don't care who uses single coils for metal, but it ain't working for me.
Also, if you eq your gear to suit your bridge single, more mids/bass/body, your neck single suffers from excess flab: bane of strat owners for ages. Anyway, single coils in the neck @ the 24th fret sweet spot = excellent tones. I do wish my Saber was H-S-S. FGM400 anyone?i dun like the single coil bridge also. i play the strat for christian music. but for the rhythmn i use the spilt of the mid and bridge single coils. my strat is SSS, but i love the single coils for that great punch and nice twang sound which is suitable for christian music. but when i play the bridge single coil, it's very very thin, but using the right effects, it makes it sound nice, but although thin, but u still can be satisfied esp by that twang which i like.
i also own a HSH guitar which is only for metal and prog rock. different genres, different pickup combos, different effects...
i also own a HSH guitar which is only for metal and prog rock. different genres, different pickup combos, different effects...
penta-tonic
New member
but then again id say malmsteen has loads of dynamics. but i guess reading many of ur posts u have something against a certain few shredders. ahaha. well i guess im not so much into the sound of vai which doesnt really do it for tone cos hes more into working out his effects and stuff but nonetheless gd playing. im the guitar into amp kinda person. as little as possible to jeopardize tone.
thor666
New member
Yes, I've ever heard Randolf use HS3 in action, and I must say they sound amazing to my ears. But they aren't singlecoils, and from the way Malmsteen uses it, I'm not sure if plugging in another guitar makes his sound significantly different.
I would say it doesn't matter what artists say about their equipment and stuff. Sometimes they endorse certain products, and they have to stick to their endorsements. Read what they say with a pinch of salt.
I would say it doesn't matter what artists say about their equipment and stuff. Sometimes they endorse certain products, and they have to stick to their endorsements. Read what they say with a pinch of salt.
Yjm , Hs-2 , Hs-3 all very good pickups.... when playing with distortion/ overdrive they....all sound very "malmsteen" as well... to me. thats a good thing.
Clean, the pickups perform very very well. Mr paul daniel has two of em in his antique strat if im not wrong. After hearing them on his guitar... i ran off to buy them ... haha.
Malmstein needs noise suppressors and his DOD pedal .... only 3 pedals? , i know of many virtuosos who use many times more. His playing dynamics are there... i guess its whether you wanna hear it.
penta's post on single coils for metal was quite an interesting approach. Having tried that as well .. but didnt work out too well. I tried true single coils with my 5150 and when i pushed the gain up. it simply made the guitar wail and feedback , not to mention the god damned insistent hum . The kinmans handle gain wayyy better.
But i do believe in the good guitar --->good cable---> good tube amp --->good tone .... less IS more.
Clean, the pickups perform very very well. Mr paul daniel has two of em in his antique strat if im not wrong. After hearing them on his guitar... i ran off to buy them ... haha.
Malmstein needs noise suppressors and his DOD pedal .... only 3 pedals? , i know of many virtuosos who use many times more. His playing dynamics are there... i guess its whether you wanna hear it.
penta's post on single coils for metal was quite an interesting approach. Having tried that as well .. but didnt work out too well. I tried true single coils with my 5150 and when i pushed the gain up. it simply made the guitar wail and feedback , not to mention the god damned insistent hum . The kinmans handle gain wayyy better.
But i do believe in the good guitar --->good cable---> good tube amp --->good tone .... less IS more.
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