I am a sound man myself. I get pissed easily. But i DO NOT go out of my way to make the band sound bad! There is a solution to every problem on stage, you either use your head to think or ur ass to do the thinking, thats the difference.
One of my worst experiences with a sound engineer!!!
- Thread starter alvinthedrummer
- Start date
I am a sound man myself. I get pissed easily. But i DO NOT go out of my way to make the band sound bad! There is a solution to every problem on stage, you either use your head to think or ur ass to do the thinking, thats the difference.
alvinthedrummer
New member
Well said!
If there is an engineer with the attitude of "revenge" he or she is just plain stupid. If the band's sound is bad, the engineer is just making himself/herself look unprofessional. Singapore is so small, in due time, his name will just get around.
By the way, I really dig the Roland microcube!!
If there is an engineer with the attitude of "revenge" he or she is just plain stupid. If the band's sound is bad, the engineer is just making himself/herself look unprofessional. Singapore is so small, in due time, his name will just get around.
By the way, I really dig the Roland microcube!!
looooolll .... :d
[QUOTE=alvinthedrummer
Keith has been in the business for a very long time. He's usually not like that UNLESS someone pisses him off or something. Engineers are one thing, event ORGANIZERS are another. Did you specifically wrote a black and white tech-rider mentioning that you had needed EXTRA mic-up for extra percussion(excluding drums if any)? Who was the main person IN CHARGE of dealing DIRECTLY with the people supplying the inventory, the organizers or the performers? Engineers usually plan out the inventory list that they need and the kind of setup that goes along with(especially mixers and speaker systems). Why a lot of Engineers gets pissed is bcoz of people who request things LAST MINUTE or people who request for Equipment but do not understand the USAGE nor LIMITATIONS of certain equipments in the area of feasibility and LIFE-SPAN. Sometimes such INCIDENTS can cause hassle to the Engineer, due to limited channels on mixer, or overloading of equipment, having to deal with LAST MINUTE feedback problems due to introduction of new mics in setup. INDOOR and OUTDOOR performances require different setups and equipment, depending on the size of location, the height of walls/barriers in the angle of sound projection, the type of instruments used(too many factors). By the way.... Mackie L/R 1x12? 1x15? You've got bass amps, guitar amps, vocal mics in the setup.... drums? That's pretty Sufficient for those Mackies, but.... consider the mixer, poweramps/passive/active speakers. There are many things that need to be planned out. So the question is..... was the mics indented for the small percussion kit you brought?
I personally know Keith and I know him being a nice person. LKS has been in the industry for quite a long time. I have seen him do his setups upfront and I have to say, he gets worked up when players don't have a minimal UNDERSTANDING and DISCIPLINE of handling equipment, or LAST MINUTE REQUESTS. As for Organizers OUT THERE: You GET what you PAY for. Don't expect for what you're not prepared to spend on. Do Not Mix professionalism and rudeness together, it is two different things. Always THINK before you approach and say anything to the SOUND ENGINEER, and Don't try your luck with last minute requests. Engineers don't try their luck at selecting equipment nor setting up/balancing up sound. THEY PLAN.
I'm not trying to point at anyone here, I Do Not know of the actual circumstances since your story is not really detailed(every story has 2 sides) and This is just a general discussion of what it could have been caused by.
Just my 2 cents. Cheers.
Keith has been in the business for a very long time. He's usually not like that UNLESS someone pisses him off or something. Engineers are one thing, event ORGANIZERS are another. Did you specifically wrote a black and white tech-rider mentioning that you had needed EXTRA mic-up for extra percussion(excluding drums if any)? Who was the main person IN CHARGE of dealing DIRECTLY with the people supplying the inventory, the organizers or the performers? Engineers usually plan out the inventory list that they need and the kind of setup that goes along with(especially mixers and speaker systems). Why a lot of Engineers gets pissed is bcoz of people who request things LAST MINUTE or people who request for Equipment but do not understand the USAGE nor LIMITATIONS of certain equipments in the area of feasibility and LIFE-SPAN. Sometimes such INCIDENTS can cause hassle to the Engineer, due to limited channels on mixer, or overloading of equipment, having to deal with LAST MINUTE feedback problems due to introduction of new mics in setup. INDOOR and OUTDOOR performances require different setups and equipment, depending on the size of location, the height of walls/barriers in the angle of sound projection, the type of instruments used(too many factors). By the way.... Mackie L/R 1x12? 1x15? You've got bass amps, guitar amps, vocal mics in the setup.... drums? That's pretty Sufficient for those Mackies, but.... consider the mixer, poweramps/passive/active speakers. There are many things that need to be planned out. So the question is..... was the mics indented for the small percussion kit you brought?
I personally know Keith and I know him being a nice person. LKS has been in the industry for quite a long time. I have seen him do his setups upfront and I have to say, he gets worked up when players don't have a minimal UNDERSTANDING and DISCIPLINE of handling equipment, or LAST MINUTE REQUESTS. As for Organizers OUT THERE: You GET what you PAY for. Don't expect for what you're not prepared to spend on. Do Not Mix professionalism and rudeness together, it is two different things. Always THINK before you approach and say anything to the SOUND ENGINEER, and Don't try your luck with last minute requests. Engineers don't try their luck at selecting equipment nor setting up/balancing up sound. THEY PLAN.
I'm not trying to point at anyone here, I Do Not know of the actual circumstances since your story is not really detailed(every story has 2 sides) and This is just a general discussion of what it could have been caused by.
Just my 2 cents. Cheers.
dearxarson
New member
but does that justify a gangster-ish like reaction? that's just way too low. you're in the business of dealing with people, more like frontline kinda personnel. thats bad business i guess judging from what alvin said with regards to keith's reaction.
sometimes it's over reaction, sometimes it rage, sometimes its irritation.
things are not wat they used to be...... sometimes, people just never get the idea. And Singapore is not really filled with players who REALLY understand sound. this is just one example of something that went a lil far, maybe. IDK. never will.
Engineers can think and act like players, But Can Players think and act like Engineers?
things are not wat they used to be...... sometimes, people just never get the idea. And Singapore is not really filled with players who REALLY understand sound. this is just one example of something that went a lil far, maybe. IDK. never will.
Engineers can think and act like players, But Can Players think and act like Engineers?
dearxarson
New member
sometimes its this, sometimes its that? so does that make it acceptable? ITS A DAMN BUSINESS THEY ARE RUNNING. you need pr skills to handle people. THEY THE ENGINEERS GET PAID FOR THEIR SERVICES.
im a musician and i can think and act like engineers. its something that you learn after years of playing mind you. but do most engineers think and act like us? i.e. the moment they see a guitarist carrying loads of effects, their first instinct is to lower his guitar sound on the mix. i've played countless of shows throughout my years of playing and this is the most common thing i've experienced, cos i was one of those guitarist who do carry around loads of effects. and mind you, i do have a pretty decent sound onstage on my own.
im a musician and i can think and act like engineers. its something that you learn after years of playing mind you. but do most engineers think and act like us? i.e. the moment they see a guitarist carrying loads of effects, their first instinct is to lower his guitar sound on the mix. i've played countless of shows throughout my years of playing and this is the most common thing i've experienced, cos i was one of those guitarist who do carry around loads of effects. and mind you, i do have a pretty decent sound onstage on my own.
villanovajunction
New member
pretty simple, any threads like this are meant to educate. if some provides poor service, condemn them and let their business rot to filth. there is no need to even reply.
alvinthedrummer
New member
The organizer sent a tech rider showing us what they will provide. Keith did not short change in terms of items brought but that was the end of his professionalism (by the way, attitude plays one of the biggest role in professionalism...so, yes, rudeness CAN be judged in the scale of professionalism).
I am not gonna bombard anyone with my professional experiences but I can assure you that I know what can or cannot work. And I have also said that we did not ask for anything extra! In fact, if he was to hear me out before walking away unreasonably, he would have saved himself the trouble of setting up some microphones! We were gonna be using less than what the tech rider list had provided! So would I scare off the sound crew for using less...since they didn't planned for that?
Honestly, I mostly work with Boon Musical and occasionally BMC. Although I like to ensure my sound is good, these companies can vouch that for the past 14+ years I am real easy going and I have never once asked for what the sound crew cannot provide. So what if Keith has been in the business for a long time? Is his credentials proving any huge success? Could he be the reason why Boon Musical and BMC are still 2 of the most hired companies locally? You know him personally so he is OK to you. But in my opinion, a truly "nice" person will be nice to ANYONE with no discrimination whatsoever! For the past 14+ years playing professionally, this is the first time I had a disagreement with a sound crew and my first time walking away from a professional setting. I can also say that I am generally ok unless someone pisses me off! But at least I know I am walking away because of an unprofessional counterpart, but what about Keith?
dearxarson:- You said it man!!! Hits it right on the nail!!
I am not gonna bombard anyone with my professional experiences but I can assure you that I know what can or cannot work. And I have also said that we did not ask for anything extra! In fact, if he was to hear me out before walking away unreasonably, he would have saved himself the trouble of setting up some microphones! We were gonna be using less than what the tech rider list had provided! So would I scare off the sound crew for using less...since they didn't planned for that?
Honestly, I mostly work with Boon Musical and occasionally BMC. Although I like to ensure my sound is good, these companies can vouch that for the past 14+ years I am real easy going and I have never once asked for what the sound crew cannot provide. So what if Keith has been in the business for a long time? Is his credentials proving any huge success? Could he be the reason why Boon Musical and BMC are still 2 of the most hired companies locally? You know him personally so he is OK to you. But in my opinion, a truly "nice" person will be nice to ANYONE with no discrimination whatsoever! For the past 14+ years playing professionally, this is the first time I had a disagreement with a sound crew and my first time walking away from a professional setting. I can also say that I am generally ok unless someone pisses me off! But at least I know I am walking away because of an unprofessional counterpart, but what about Keith?
dearxarson:- You said it man!!! Hits it right on the nail!!
benjaminang
New member
Your rights and the law are cold comfort if you are sitting in a pool of your own blood or lying in a hospital bed. So I agree with James. Better to quietly go somewhere else, then take a long distance zoom picture / video of the fella and post on Facebook / Twitter / YouTube etc.
Hey man!
I understand how you feel bro. However, getting his name down and making a complaint is entirely within your right as a citizen as well.
I understand how you feel bro. However, getting his name down and making a complaint is entirely within your right as a citizen as well.
Just to clarify
Hello Fun,
I am the bassist in question, who almost got into a fight with keith and his sound guys.
You personally knowing him does not mean he carries his nice personality equally with people he doesn't know. I understand that people have off and on days. However, at work, you NEVER raise your voice at anyone, especially when I DID ask him politely. I even squatted down to talk to him. Alvin said I requested for an explanation. It was even lighter than that. All I asked was, "is it ok for me to know why?". In no way was I formal, condescending, or demanding. I was asking casually and lightheartedly, merely trying to strike up a conversation/discussion. Look, the girl in charge of the event knew nothing regarding tech stuff. I simply thought I could discuss it with the sound engineer of the day. AND in most venues I've played, including overseas, musicians CAN discuss with sound engineers about tech stuff. I've always approached people with caution, especially in singapore, becos many people here work with an attitude - and get overly defensive for nothing. I did not insult his knowledge, did not demand anything, was not rude at all, did not raise my voice, and definitely was not "asking for trouble", as keith so defensively jumped to yell out. Best part was, I clearly explained to him that I wasn't looking for trouble, just wanted to discuss. At that point, I hadn't even raised my voice OR gotten rude. And he snapped. Yes, I got aggressive after that, but that was in response to his threat. when someone throws whatever he's holding hard onto the ground, jumps up on his feet and SCREAMS at the top of his voice " ARE YOU LOOKING FOR TROUBLE???", that qualifies FULLY as a threat to attack. and when he lashed out his arm at me from less than 30cm away, I had no idea if that was meant to strike me or just to point at me. Naturally my instinct would be to flick it aside. So yes, there was mild contact, but he looked like he was about to strike anytime, and I'm not really the kind who'd stand by and let someone attack me - especially when I did nothing to provoke it. That being said, WHY WAS IT SO HARD FOR HIM TO TAKE 5 MINUTES TO EXPLAIN? It would possibly only have taken 2 minutes even! As for the other two tech guys, who ironically asked me to chill when they were the ones taunting me, should've just minded their own business and let things cool off, especially when they just didn't have the gall to carry out their taunts anyway.
I understand that you want to defend your friend. However, you weren't there - or MAYBE you are one of the tech guys who were there. if you are, or if keith is reading, let's all meet up and have a talk. it's good to clarify, because I REALLY want to know why there was a need to treat me that way. and be man about it - be HONEST and reasonable.
also, you don't know me at all - to imply that I wasn't polite from the start, seems a little judgemental.
it's strange how all these little arguments can seem so big, when it's possible that if the parties involved, including you and me, were to meet in a different light, COULD have become good friends or working partners.
You can choose not to believe what I say. But I believe God is watching, and my conscience is clear. On that day , the ones looking for trouble definitely wasn't me.
One thing though, I have no idea why this issue was posted up. It is tiresome to even pursue such matters. Hope we can all just let it go, cos you never know when we'll ever need to work together again. Just remember that having one more friend is better than making new enemies. Look, I DON'T think that keith is a jerk, an a**hole or some trouble-making guy. As I've said above, people have off and on days. I was polite, and he had an off-day. So be it. World is too small to be quarreling so much, and we have but one life to make friends and work alongside each other.
Erm. "World peace".
Hello Fun,
I am the bassist in question, who almost got into a fight with keith and his sound guys.
You personally knowing him does not mean he carries his nice personality equally with people he doesn't know. I understand that people have off and on days. However, at work, you NEVER raise your voice at anyone, especially when I DID ask him politely. I even squatted down to talk to him. Alvin said I requested for an explanation. It was even lighter than that. All I asked was, "is it ok for me to know why?". In no way was I formal, condescending, or demanding. I was asking casually and lightheartedly, merely trying to strike up a conversation/discussion. Look, the girl in charge of the event knew nothing regarding tech stuff. I simply thought I could discuss it with the sound engineer of the day. AND in most venues I've played, including overseas, musicians CAN discuss with sound engineers about tech stuff. I've always approached people with caution, especially in singapore, becos many people here work with an attitude - and get overly defensive for nothing. I did not insult his knowledge, did not demand anything, was not rude at all, did not raise my voice, and definitely was not "asking for trouble", as keith so defensively jumped to yell out. Best part was, I clearly explained to him that I wasn't looking for trouble, just wanted to discuss. At that point, I hadn't even raised my voice OR gotten rude. And he snapped. Yes, I got aggressive after that, but that was in response to his threat. when someone throws whatever he's holding hard onto the ground, jumps up on his feet and SCREAMS at the top of his voice " ARE YOU LOOKING FOR TROUBLE???", that qualifies FULLY as a threat to attack. and when he lashed out his arm at me from less than 30cm away, I had no idea if that was meant to strike me or just to point at me. Naturally my instinct would be to flick it aside. So yes, there was mild contact, but he looked like he was about to strike anytime, and I'm not really the kind who'd stand by and let someone attack me - especially when I did nothing to provoke it. That being said, WHY WAS IT SO HARD FOR HIM TO TAKE 5 MINUTES TO EXPLAIN? It would possibly only have taken 2 minutes even! As for the other two tech guys, who ironically asked me to chill when they were the ones taunting me, should've just minded their own business and let things cool off, especially when they just didn't have the gall to carry out their taunts anyway.
I understand that you want to defend your friend. However, you weren't there - or MAYBE you are one of the tech guys who were there. if you are, or if keith is reading, let's all meet up and have a talk. it's good to clarify, because I REALLY want to know why there was a need to treat me that way. and be man about it - be HONEST and reasonable.
also, you don't know me at all - to imply that I wasn't polite from the start, seems a little judgemental.
it's strange how all these little arguments can seem so big, when it's possible that if the parties involved, including you and me, were to meet in a different light, COULD have become good friends or working partners. You can choose not to believe what I say. But I believe God is watching, and my conscience is clear. On that day , the ones looking for trouble definitely wasn't me.
One thing though, I have no idea why this issue was posted up. It is tiresome to even pursue such matters. Hope we can all just let it go, cos you never know when we'll ever need to work together again. Just remember that having one more friend is better than making new enemies. Look, I DON'T think that keith is a jerk, an a**hole or some trouble-making guy. As I've said above, people have off and on days. I was polite, and he had an off-day. So be it. World is too small to be quarreling so much, and we have but one life to make friends and work alongside each other.
Erm. "World peace".
gsonique
New member
I have seen best and i have seen worst....
See...the best...
1) takes joy and pleasure serving without judging the band/artist...
2) They humble themselves and make the crapiest band sound good....thats why they are the best.
3) They GIVE!! and deliver!
Now, as a musician you must know what you want...even the best can't help you if you dont.
If your gear is noisy then do something to remedy that.. rather than expecting the sound guy to magically vanish your noise.
"Be of good cheer" as they say....learn to smile and don't act like a bi*ch coz you might get smacked around like one.
If you don't know ...ASK !!!
btw...think abt your own act before you talk about others.
See...the best...
1) takes joy and pleasure serving without judging the band/artist...
2) They humble themselves and make the crapiest band sound good....thats why they are the best.
3) They GIVE!! and deliver!
Now, as a musician you must know what you want...even the best can't help you if you dont.
If your gear is noisy then do something to remedy that.. rather than expecting the sound guy to magically vanish your noise.
"Be of good cheer" as they say....learn to smile and don't act like a bi*ch coz you might get smacked around like one.
If you don't know ...ASK !!!
btw...think abt your own act before you talk about others.
fgl
Well-known member
hhhaaahhaaTO THE THREADSTARTER - FEEL FOR U BRO - I MYSELF KENA COUNTLESS F***** UP ENGINEERS OVER THE YEARS ...THE THINGS WE HAVE TO ENDURE MAN ...
alvinthedrummer
New member
Thanks FGL but really, bad sound I can endure but bad attitude is just unacceptable.
With all that happened that day:- it could be just a bad day for whoever that were there but the impact they had on others could be alot harsher than they can simply push aside as simply a bad day. For example, there were many parents/kids/friends watching as rage were flaring. Also for one of the performers (a student) it was gonna be his 1st performance here and last since he was gonna fly back to Mozambique the next day. It was like a farewell to all the friends he had made while living here for the last 3 years. He was devasted.
Honestly, I see this post as creating public awareness and as education to those who needs reminding of the importance of having good attitude and be respectful to others at all times. Most importantly after all the public display of rage, things need to be clarified to a certain extent. All the taunting, glaring, etc etc was most unnecessary. All should've just taken a step back to cool off. I really hope Keith is reading and if he is I hope he can look back and accept his mistake as a mature adult. My take is that regardless of who he is working with, he shouldn't be judging and belittling anyone. If there are noobs, u should jolly well find a way to motivate and give your advise as someone that has an experience in this field!
With all that happened that day:- it could be just a bad day for whoever that were there but the impact they had on others could be alot harsher than they can simply push aside as simply a bad day. For example, there were many parents/kids/friends watching as rage were flaring. Also for one of the performers (a student) it was gonna be his 1st performance here and last since he was gonna fly back to Mozambique the next day. It was like a farewell to all the friends he had made while living here for the last 3 years. He was devasted.
Honestly, I see this post as creating public awareness and as education to those who needs reminding of the importance of having good attitude and be respectful to others at all times. Most importantly after all the public display of rage, things need to be clarified to a certain extent. All the taunting, glaring, etc etc was most unnecessary. All should've just taken a step back to cool off. I really hope Keith is reading and if he is I hope he can look back and accept his mistake as a mature adult. My take is that regardless of who he is working with, he shouldn't be judging and belittling anyone. If there are noobs, u should jolly well find a way to motivate and give your advise as someone that has an experience in this field!
hecklerkoch
New member
That last sentence screams STOMP. :mrgreen:
And no, not only Ah Bengs are capable of swinging their fists mind you.
Alvin, because he's a drummer, can always break his sticks in two and stab any f*ucker in his eyes, if he want to.
Yeah, Alvin certainly doesn't sound and look like an uncivilized barbarian but you won't know this kind of things for sure, as in when somebody 'normal looking' can just snap like that and surprise you.
Hahahahaha!!!!
Kidding...
Hi confused
Dude. Are you one of the guys who were there that day? If you are, let's come out to chat and clarify things over coffee. Since when did ANY of our band members act like rock stars? Next, if you aren't any of the tech guys from that day, and IF you WEREN'T there, you definitely have no clue what went on.
For your info, as to what was mentioned before, the sound guy was approached in a very POLITE manner. There were no demanding requests, no insulting remarks, no raising of voice. He was the one who got aggressive, from a simple and casual question "is there a reason why?". Initially, he simply told the girl who was organising that it would blow the amp. As musicians, we know our own gear, so we just needed to discuss a little. Maybe there was another option, or maybe there was some kind of limitation.. Nothing wrong with a 2-3 minute chat over it, rather than stop the show or cause a show to lose its original feel due to the loss of one mic. It is not about depending on the gear. What was so wrong with having a 2-minute chat between a musician and soundguy, casually? Why so sensitive and defensive? And why the need to pick a fight? Don't know your own stuff? I understand that not all sound guys are like that, but sadly, in singapore, many are. Also, I know that many musicians here act like rock stars, but also, not all. But if you weren't there, don't comment out of nothing. If you WERE there, then let's meet up and talk over coffee to set things straight. I don't like unreasonable accusations, based on non-facts! And also, who says there's anything wrong with musicians working with sound guys? It SHOULD be the way! Sound people and musicians working together! That's how the industry grows, sound people understanding musicians' needs further, and musicians understanding the sound guys' position. Very little chance of that here, seeing the attitude most sound guys here display. Too defensive, maybe afraid of the musician knowing more than them? Either way, regardless of whether it's the musician knowing more or the sound guy knowing more, there really is nothing wrong with a discussion, to learn from one another. And if the sound guy was approached in a friendly manner, the least he could do was chat or discuss. Nothing wrong with that.
Don't get defensive and miss out on what's reasonable.
Dude. Are you one of the guys who were there that day? If you are, let's come out to chat and clarify things over coffee. Since when did ANY of our band members act like rock stars? Next, if you aren't any of the tech guys from that day, and IF you WEREN'T there, you definitely have no clue what went on.
For your info, as to what was mentioned before, the sound guy was approached in a very POLITE manner. There were no demanding requests, no insulting remarks, no raising of voice. He was the one who got aggressive, from a simple and casual question "is there a reason why?". Initially, he simply told the girl who was organising that it would blow the amp. As musicians, we know our own gear, so we just needed to discuss a little. Maybe there was another option, or maybe there was some kind of limitation.. Nothing wrong with a 2-3 minute chat over it, rather than stop the show or cause a show to lose its original feel due to the loss of one mic. It is not about depending on the gear. What was so wrong with having a 2-minute chat between a musician and soundguy, casually? Why so sensitive and defensive? And why the need to pick a fight? Don't know your own stuff? I understand that not all sound guys are like that, but sadly, in singapore, many are. Also, I know that many musicians here act like rock stars, but also, not all. But if you weren't there, don't comment out of nothing. If you WERE there, then let's meet up and talk over coffee to set things straight. I don't like unreasonable accusations, based on non-facts! And also, who says there's anything wrong with musicians working with sound guys? It SHOULD be the way! Sound people and musicians working together! That's how the industry grows, sound people understanding musicians' needs further, and musicians understanding the sound guys' position. Very little chance of that here, seeing the attitude most sound guys here display. Too defensive, maybe afraid of the musician knowing more than them? Either way, regardless of whether it's the musician knowing more or the sound guy knowing more, there really is nothing wrong with a discussion, to learn from one another. And if the sound guy was approached in a friendly manner, the least he could do was chat or discuss. Nothing wrong with that.
Don't get defensive and miss out on what's reasonable.
And if you really think that a 2-3 minute casual discussion over something that actually makes a huge difference in the sound of a 20-minute show, then that's seriously narrow-minded and unreasonable.
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