Nguyen Tuong Van case heats up.
- Thread starter SherT
- Start date
detroit_red
New member
I think the death sentence for drug trafficking is rather harsh... Always thought that way .. I mean other countries most oso 4 years like in US ..
thor666
New member
i disagree too! 
ok to put in short, the government has the authority to pass Bills & Legislations that can affect the judicial system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Singapore#Law_making
the government can definitely amend the law. they can legalize casinos and bar top dancing... that is why people do talk about the government in this case.
however, there're quite a few issues to this topic, from the differences in judgements of different cases, to the point Silencer was referring to (CA should not be under SG law), etc. (In fact I don't even have a good idea of the case yet, be doing more reading.)
i do agree that talking too much about the government is pretty lopsided in this case since there are a lot of other issues unrelated to the government.
ok to put in short, the government has the authority to pass Bills & Legislations that can affect the judicial system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Singapore#Law_making
the government can definitely amend the law. they can legalize casinos and bar top dancing... that is why people do talk about the government in this case.
however, there're quite a few issues to this topic, from the differences in judgements of different cases, to the point Silencer was referring to (CA should not be under SG law), etc. (In fact I don't even have a good idea of the case yet, be doing more reading.)
i do agree that talking too much about the government is pretty lopsided in this case since there are a lot of other issues unrelated to the government.
the irony is this :
singaporeans start to take notice only after a bigger foreign country kicks up a big fuss about drugs witihn our own country.
not to create problems but i would say , please clean up your own backyard before finding fault with ours.
in Australia and New Zealand , Drugs are against the law. but , they are only pursuing the approach of going against the traffickers and the smugglers. what about your average joe down there in the street buying dope, his consumer dollar fueling this vicious supply cycle involving traffickers and big drug cartels. do the australian and new zealand police take pro active action in correcting these individuals ? are measures taken to stem the supply of drugs at its roots ?
they dont . they simply choose to turn a blind eye , there are even bins for used injections to be disposed off at the airport. if you dont solve the problem at the root , the entire crop is going to be bad. why divert media attention from the root of the issue to someone else ? the failure of their system dosent mean its the failure of ours.
and.. do remember.
3 months ago , this indian man , divorced with 2 kids , was sentenced to hang for his drug conviction. he had two kids , both under the age of 10. his name slips my mind. did any of the singaporean newspapers , our nation building dailies report this ? no , it was published in reutuer's though. the irony that the whole world knows that singapore has the world's highest number of capital executions to population ratio (131 people were executed last year) , our ratio of captial execution to population is even higher than that of china , a gradually liberalising society with totalitarian hangovers.
this indian man carried over 2 kg of heroin. he took the risk. he had 2 kids. his kids were young. could he have been doing it to feed his kids ? to provide them with a future , to provide them with an education ? we may never know. the sheer social circumstances and poverty that could have driven this man to commit this act of desperation. his plea for a presidential pardon was rejected.
as silencer puts it. there is no hard and fast rule to putting a law into practice.my 5 cents is , do it with a open and compassionate heart. the law is meant to serve for the protection of the people. not the people to serve the law for its protection.
singaporeans start to take notice only after a bigger foreign country kicks up a big fuss about drugs witihn our own country.
not to create problems but i would say , please clean up your own backyard before finding fault with ours.
in Australia and New Zealand , Drugs are against the law. but , they are only pursuing the approach of going against the traffickers and the smugglers. what about your average joe down there in the street buying dope, his consumer dollar fueling this vicious supply cycle involving traffickers and big drug cartels. do the australian and new zealand police take pro active action in correcting these individuals ? are measures taken to stem the supply of drugs at its roots ?
they dont . they simply choose to turn a blind eye , there are even bins for used injections to be disposed off at the airport. if you dont solve the problem at the root , the entire crop is going to be bad. why divert media attention from the root of the issue to someone else ? the failure of their system dosent mean its the failure of ours.
and.. do remember.
3 months ago , this indian man , divorced with 2 kids , was sentenced to hang for his drug conviction. he had two kids , both under the age of 10. his name slips my mind. did any of the singaporean newspapers , our nation building dailies report this ? no , it was published in reutuer's though. the irony that the whole world knows that singapore has the world's highest number of capital executions to population ratio (131 people were executed last year) , our ratio of captial execution to population is even higher than that of china , a gradually liberalising society with totalitarian hangovers.
this indian man carried over 2 kg of heroin. he took the risk. he had 2 kids. his kids were young. could he have been doing it to feed his kids ? to provide them with a future , to provide them with an education ? we may never know. the sheer social circumstances and poverty that could have driven this man to commit this act of desperation. his plea for a presidential pardon was rejected.
as silencer puts it. there is no hard and fast rule to putting a law into practice.my 5 cents is , do it with a open and compassionate heart. the law is meant to serve for the protection of the people. not the people to serve the law for its protection.
SherT
New member
Ok this may sound totalitarian, but I still stand behind corporal punishment, if not, life imprisonment for the guy, with no exception to rule, no matter who is at the receiving end.
He was caught in transit, that was his bad luck. He was still caught at our airport, and he made the choice to be carrying drugs with him. Sure, he needed the money, but there were many other legal ways to obtain it.
Call me heartless, but if he's let off, as I mentioned in my earlier post, my point still stands, an example would've been made, and this example will definitely be called up in future trials, with the result of that being that these future substance traffickers may be let off as well, be it innocent or otherwise.
I agree with some of the points made by Silencer though.
He was caught in transit, that was his bad luck. He was still caught at our airport, and he made the choice to be carrying drugs with him. Sure, he needed the money, but there were many other legal ways to obtain it.
Call me heartless, but if he's let off, as I mentioned in my earlier post, my point still stands, an example would've been made, and this example will definitely be called up in future trials, with the result of that being that these future substance traffickers may be let off as well, be it innocent or otherwise.
I agree with some of the points made by Silencer though.
stars:
i don't think a country needs to be superior in order to pass comment (like i must have a 100% no drug record before i can comment on singapore's drug record) that way, no one will ever improve because no one would ever be in a suitable position to pass comment.
for the record, australia isn't fussing over our drugs record; like you correctly pointed out, we've a cleaner record than them.
they simply want their citizen back so they can deal with him. this is common practice in most countries. This is why most countries have extradiction policies. i don't think its an unreasonable request, taken into account the place he intended to commit the crime is in Australia.
and i wholeheartedly agree that the law cannot be hard and fast, but be judged according to its merits and circumstances
SherT:
this 'calling back up' is referred to as common law, and the way cases will be decided largely will be based on 'referrals' back on how a previous judge dealt with it. but this is a rather special case, and singapore HAS already made sufficient social detterant sttatements.
as written in my previous article, detterance is only one of the various purposes of justice. i don't think its fair to the Australian simply because we feel a need to make a statement.
and to answer ur question, if others start following suit and using Singapore as a transit point, we will then take action in the right steps. perhaps the offender will be secured, the foreign minister of the country of origin notified, and the offender and evidence will make the flight as planned, and met by the local authorities in his country. everybody wins, and singapore gets a HUGE boost on its global image.
i don't think a country needs to be superior in order to pass comment (like i must have a 100% no drug record before i can comment on singapore's drug record) that way, no one will ever improve because no one would ever be in a suitable position to pass comment.
for the record, australia isn't fussing over our drugs record; like you correctly pointed out, we've a cleaner record than them.
they simply want their citizen back so they can deal with him. this is common practice in most countries. This is why most countries have extradiction policies. i don't think its an unreasonable request, taken into account the place he intended to commit the crime is in Australia.
and i wholeheartedly agree that the law cannot be hard and fast, but be judged according to its merits and circumstances
SherT:
this 'calling back up' is referred to as common law, and the way cases will be decided largely will be based on 'referrals' back on how a previous judge dealt with it. but this is a rather special case, and singapore HAS already made sufficient social detterant sttatements.
as written in my previous article, detterance is only one of the various purposes of justice. i don't think its fair to the Australian simply because we feel a need to make a statement.
and to answer ur question, if others start following suit and using Singapore as a transit point, we will then take action in the right steps. perhaps the offender will be secured, the foreign minister of the country of origin notified, and the offender and evidence will make the flight as planned, and met by the local authorities in his country. everybody wins, and singapore gets a HUGE boost on its global image.
SherT:
the only issue in contention i see is one of feasibility (as in Government impetus). there is NO government impetus to do so, else they'll already have done. the more IMPORTANT question you should be asking is, "is this something singapore should consider doing? will this be better for our country?"
clearly we have enough members of the police force to do armed escortings (air marshalls can double up for duties like this). we already have existing extradiction policies with some countries. we have the means and financial backing to so do.
the only issue in contention i see is one of feasibility (as in Government impetus). there is NO government impetus to do so, else they'll already have done. the more IMPORTANT question you should be asking is, "is this something singapore should consider doing? will this be better for our country?"
clearly we have enough members of the police force to do armed escortings (air marshalls can double up for duties like this). we already have existing extradiction policies with some countries. we have the means and financial backing to so do.
SherT
New member
Sure, the resources are ready and available, I never said they weren't, but WILL it actually be carried out? Like I mentioned, talk is cheap, to put it crudely. Actions speak louder than words.
And jumbofret: It is BECAUSE of our values and principles that this whole issue arose in the first place. We're not willing to deviate from them, and as such we find ourselves at odds with the aussies.
And jumbofret: It is BECAUSE of our values and principles that this whole issue arose in the first place. We're not willing to deviate from them, and as such we find ourselves at odds with the aussies.
jumbo:
you can clearly see some of the mindsets involved now from some of the replies
shert:
following your line of logic, we never need to think, do any form or reflection or do anything productive at all. because talk is cheap, and action speaks louder than words. you must think yourself terribly bright to have figured this out, but as i've said before, i don't aim to change anything with my article. i want to present people like you, a different way of thinking. not the 'if you're so smart it'll already have been done' kind of attitude.
don't go for an ego trip here, kinda like 'i've seen more in the world, i knoe what will be done and what will not'. because if the world were made of people like you, we'll never have any progress.
cheers shert.
you can clearly see some of the mindsets involved now from some of the replies
shert:
following your line of logic, we never need to think, do any form or reflection or do anything productive at all. because talk is cheap, and action speaks louder than words. you must think yourself terribly bright to have figured this out, but as i've said before, i don't aim to change anything with my article. i want to present people like you, a different way of thinking. not the 'if you're so smart it'll already have been done' kind of attitude.
don't go for an ego trip here, kinda like 'i've seen more in the world, i knoe what will be done and what will not'. because if the world were made of people like you, we'll never have any progress.
cheers shert.
The-Warlord
New member
The rules are clear, as are the concequences. The guy broke them. He should hang.
shert:
sure you'll entitled to your own opinion. but to say something like talk is cheap, action is louder than words etc. what are you trying to say?
that i can't talk about it if i'm not gonna do it?
and i feel that one shouldn't adopt a "the gov is not going to do it, so why talk about it' mindset.
The-Warlord:
the case is not so clear cut and as simple as breaking the rules and deserving consequence.
sure you'll entitled to your own opinion. but to say something like talk is cheap, action is louder than words etc. what are you trying to say?
that i can't talk about it if i'm not gonna do it?
and i feel that one shouldn't adopt a "the gov is not going to do it, so why talk about it' mindset.
The-Warlord:
the case is not so clear cut and as simple as breaking the rules and deserving consequence.
