Music theory
- Thread starter RG2820
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suspend_thought
New member
I mean; studying music theory and understanding it is good; especially understanding intervals and the like really helps in building chords and such for a guitarist, to make a simple example.
but the point is, learning to apply it and use it is alot more important, which is why I see the ABRSM Music Theory thing as redundant; because for example, a pianist would learn theory but it depends on how his teacher is able to make him understand how it works, rather than learning it mechanically -- which seems to be quite prevalent around here.
Look at Steve Vai; he could read standard notation and transcribe it to guitar quickly, but it's how he managed to apply it into his songs that matters (to us listeners, at least).
but the point is, learning to apply it and use it is alot more important, which is why I see the ABRSM Music Theory thing as redundant; because for example, a pianist would learn theory but it depends on how his teacher is able to make him understand how it works, rather than learning it mechanically -- which seems to be quite prevalent around here.
Look at Steve Vai; he could read standard notation and transcribe it to guitar quickly, but it's how he managed to apply it into his songs that matters (to us listeners, at least).
Narcoleptia
New member
7 and I hated my piano teacher. I was only 13 then *beams*
but of course I regret it now :'(
but of course I regret it now :'(
Cheez
Moderator
suspend_thought said:
So your point here slightly contradicts itself. ABRSM theory isn't redundant if the person knows how to apply it. And that, of course, is helped along my the teacher. I guess that's your point.
I believe many who have completed ABRSM theory can vouch with me that it's certainly not redundant at all. As the previous threads on music theory discussed, music theory is not about reading notes. It's way more than that....
I've got Grade 6 theory. Oh btw, there's no "guitar theory" or "flute theory" ... its all under 1 roof. 
Theory.
Theory has been a tremendous help to me. Without it, I dont' believe I could have come up with my wacky stuff. I mean, why would I bother about odd time signatures and key changes if they merely sounded "beri nice in the song" and didn't know what was being done? Theory was a boon to my compositional aspect.
Anyway, at the end of the day, theory is really a tool and if the weilder of the tool doesn't use it, then, the tool is really redundant as a musical tool but of course remains useful as head knowledge. So for that matter, would we classify theory as being redundant on a whole? Nope, don't throw the bath water out with the baby.
Theory. Theory has been a tremendous help to me. Without it, I dont' believe I could have come up with my wacky stuff. I mean, why would I bother about odd time signatures and key changes if they merely sounded "beri nice in the song" and didn't know what was being done? Theory was a boon to my compositional aspect.
Anyway, at the end of the day, theory is really a tool and if the weilder of the tool doesn't use it, then, the tool is really redundant as a musical tool but of course remains useful as head knowledge. So for that matter, would we classify theory as being redundant on a whole? Nope, don't throw the bath water out with the baby.
suspend_thought
New member
Cheez said:
It's more of like, music theory in general is helpful only IF you apply it, no matter where you learn it from, whether you took an examination for it or not. I'm sure most guitarists, bassists, drummers learn alot of stuff through application or from their teachers; it's the same stuff everyone's learning.
I mean like, there are people out there who understand time signatures and compound time and polyrhythms and whatnot but can't play a triplet for nuts, but there are people out there who can feel it even though they can't put it down into words or a score.
teraslasch
New member
lots of people who self-learn their instruments tend to rely on their ears rather than being troubled by the compexity of theories. Infact, many people argue that, why is theory needed? when i can feeel and do it? Its just like ure applying the knowledge of theory without actually knowing it. This can turn to a heated debate between a so called "properly trained musician" and a "self-learned musician"..
teraslasch, that sounds like the common "just wack lah" comments that have been passed around forever! Then to those who are in the theory know, will go "what ignorance!" and those who are not in the know go "thats the way man, just need feel!"
At the end of the day, people will conclude, its just music lah, if it sounds good who cares?
Right?
Of course thats right! Heh.
Then the tendency in people's minds will be, "Then why bother to learn theory?"
Thats the real danger. To simply put aside theory because, you don't need it to make music what... they eliminate the tool from their toolbox.
Point is, theory is good stuff. Needed? Nope. But can it help? Will it help? Yes. Will it make you a better musician? To the band that plays with score, yes, they will want a musician who knows his theory so he can sightread. Otherwise, no.
Theory has never harmed a musician in his journey of self expression. The common saying that "theory builds walls around your creativity" is rubbish. Any good musician will break out of those walls, thats the simple truth.
There's no need to force people to learn theory, but lets put it on a balanced scale, present the pros as well.
At the end of the day, people will conclude, its just music lah, if it sounds good who cares?
Right?
Of course thats right! Heh.
Then the tendency in people's minds will be, "Then why bother to learn theory?"
Thats the real danger. To simply put aside theory because, you don't need it to make music what... they eliminate the tool from their toolbox.
Point is, theory is good stuff. Needed? Nope. But can it help? Will it help? Yes. Will it make you a better musician? To the band that plays with score, yes, they will want a musician who knows his theory so he can sightread. Otherwise, no.
Theory has never harmed a musician in his journey of self expression. The common saying that "theory builds walls around your creativity" is rubbish. Any good musician will break out of those walls, thats the simple truth.
There's no need to force people to learn theory, but lets put it on a balanced scale, present the pros as well.
teraslasch
New member
Thats right, if its just music and sounds good to u, who cares? Thats the point, SOME PEOPLE CARE.. especially if u send someone who has high grade in theory or music is his expertise - eh, ur song boh structure... ur song use ABA form?.. ur song just based on some simple chord progression.. all these are common critics people give hahahaa.. damn funny..
Cheez
Moderator
suspend_thought said:
My point is this: theory is helpful whether you think you apply it or not! OF course, having no background theory doesn't mean one cannot play an instrument. Having theory will definitely help the person whether he knows it or not. Theory works in an interesting way - once you know it, it automatically becomes a part of you, most of the time being unconscious.
A person doesn't need to learn the alphabet to know how to talk or speak. He can talk; he can even sing. Maybe some grammar may be wrong here and there, but generally, he is able to communicate with people. Illiterate people still communicates verbally.
However, if you go to school to learn grammar, you learn how to better express your verbal communication. You can also express it in writing. You will improve in your verbal communication skills. Grammar, vocabularly etc helps the person to express himself.
But even if I don't know any grammar/vocab etc, I can still speak. Knowing it helps me more. Once I know it, I don't think about it when I express myself. I don't need to think consciously of whether my definite article is used properly or not, or whether my tenses are used properly - it just comes naturally.
It's not a perfect analogy, but it's similar to theory.
suspend_thought
New member
I agree in that nobody plays worse after learning music theory.
I guess it really all depends on the person or his teacher; personally I learnt music theory and how to play an instrument seperately, and it wasn't until a certain point where I figured how to put the two together -- which was around the same time I started noticing I was playing, if not better, but at least more fluently.
Similiarly, you said that subconsciously, upon knowing music theory you start to improve and play better.
Using that as an example, I believe that a person's ability to put two and two together is crucial to effectively using music theory to improve his/her playing.
Maybe to you, and probably to most musicians, like ShredCow and whatever, it may seem like second nature -- when you listen to a song you instantly can assemble a mental image of the flow and structure of the song and from it deduce the general direction it's going in, but to some people, they really really, put simply, "don't get it".
Oh you'd be surprised at how many people fail english. It might seem easy to you but in my school it's really really bad :wink:
I guess it really all depends on the person or his teacher; personally I learnt music theory and how to play an instrument seperately, and it wasn't until a certain point where I figured how to put the two together -- which was around the same time I started noticing I was playing, if not better, but at least more fluently.
Similiarly, you said that subconsciously, upon knowing music theory you start to improve and play better.
Using that as an example, I believe that a person's ability to put two and two together is crucial to effectively using music theory to improve his/her playing.
Maybe to you, and probably to most musicians, like ShredCow and whatever, it may seem like second nature -- when you listen to a song you instantly can assemble a mental image of the flow and structure of the song and from it deduce the general direction it's going in, but to some people, they really really, put simply, "don't get it".
Oh you'd be surprised at how many people fail english. It might seem easy to you but in my school it's really really bad :wink:
Cheez
Moderator
OK, what about this -
EVERYBODY and ANYBODY who finds theory helpful to them - ie practically, creatively etc - can we collaborate on a 10 short lessons plan to be out in the e-learining section to help those who thinks theory are boring, inpractical, unhelpful etc?
We can call it "Practical Theory 101".
If you have no theory background and thinks something like that can help you, please indicate.
If you have theory knowledge and think you can contribute (to make it interesting and practical for others - ie not the usual boring theory people thinks), please also indicate here.
If interest rate is high and contributor rate is also high - maybe we can do something practical for once instead of coming up with threads like this once a week.
EVERYBODY and ANYBODY who finds theory helpful to them - ie practically, creatively etc - can we collaborate on a 10 short lessons plan to be out in the e-learining section to help those who thinks theory are boring, inpractical, unhelpful etc?
We can call it "Practical Theory 101".
If you have no theory background and thinks something like that can help you, please indicate.
If you have theory knowledge and think you can contribute (to make it interesting and practical for others - ie not the usual boring theory people thinks), please also indicate here.
If interest rate is high and contributor rate is also high - maybe we can do something practical for once instead of coming up with threads like this once a week.
G
Guest
Guest
I'm interested, in learning, I have little music theory knowledge. If this can turn out to be interactive, i.e. responding to the lessons with questions and answers, then, it will be even better. I'm sure a lot of us will benefit from it. Just look at this thread, so many are reading it. You guys just post the lessons, i'm sure many will read. 
G
Guest
Guest
i'm interested. i also have very little music knowledge. 
Creeping_Deth
New member
drumdumb said:
Well you do have to know some instrument that isn't percussion. Else the theory isn't really any help. Keyboards/piano appear to be the best instrument to study theory due to the easy layout of the notes.
