Medicine for the local original market????

I don’t entirely agree with that. I can’t say that practice is not important, but so many other things are more decisive.
There’s this book, “Outliers”, by Malcolm Gladwell which said that the Beatles are great because they practiced together as a band for a very long time. I thought that was wrong. The Beatles are not the greatest band because they are the most technically accomplished (Rolling Stones and Led Zep are better than them in this respect). They are the greatest because Lennon and McCartney are a fantastic songwriting team. I’ve always believed that even though so many factors are important, songwriting is the most crucial.

Songwriting is not about complex riffs. Let’s go back to the Beatles. They started out writing the simplest pieces. Why does “She Loves You” work? Why is it considered a masterpiece when there are other simple songs out there (let’s say – “I Kissed a Girl”) which are not? Being able to understand this is the crucial first step to being a good songwriter.

To be sure, I also believe that it takes a lot of practice to be good at songwriting. (By the way it’s not right that hardly anybody talks about songwriting. I know that it is black magic, but people must still try to talk about it.) Yes, you need music theory, you need to know why some sounds go with what. But you still have to step back and think about how everything fits together.

Basically there are 2 components of creativity: first is knowing what’s out there, what’s gone on before. Second is tearing up the rule book and coming up with something yourself. Singaporeans are great at the first part, but they falter at the second. Even though it is true that you must master the rules before you break them, I don’t think enough people are breaking the rules.

I don’t really think we should be that respectful of tradition. It’s no big deal that your students don’t know scat music or bluegrass. But it is more crucial that they know the “rules behind the rules”. That is, if you tell them the rules behind scat music, they should be able to conduct an intelligent discussion on why the rules were made like that. They should be able to listen people scatting, and be able to tell at once who’s doing it correctly and who’s doing it wrong. For there to be “rules” about scatting – the horror! Scatting is 90% instinct. One of my favourite scatters of today is Alice Glass of Crystal Castles, and I think she learnt it by any how hentam. There’s also Alison Krauss of Sleigh Bells.

I don’t even think that song structure is that important, but understanding song structure actually means that you understand how and why 1 part of this song segues into this other part of the song, why those 2 parts are put there side by side. Not because you need to teach your students a set of rules and they need to follow those rules blindly. For example the reason why “Don’t Stop Believing” by Journey is a great song is because it successfully breaks the verse chorus verse rule of rock songs. (nb “Don’t Stop Believing” is verse verse verse verse chorus).

Of course, I think we agree on the fact that students need to listen to a lot of music, and they need to listen intelligently. They need to listen widely, possibly beyond their comfort level. They need to understand music production well. Technical mastery is one thing, but we need thinkers as well as doers.

Last of all, I don’t think that for a musician, you should be telling your students a prescription that they should try to do everything. Some things they will be good at, others they won’t. More important is to understand what they are good at, regardless of whether or not they’re going to explore far beyond that.

One reason I despair for the Singapore music scene is because the audiences are dumb. We come from a country where Timmy Thomas and Michael Learns to Rock go to number one in the pop charts. (OK, went, because that was 20 years ago) Of course Americans are also dumb because Katy Perry can go to number one there. But there is also a great music tradition where there is a critical mass of people with good music taste. I don’t see that. Of course musicians must strive on regardless and produce the best music. But they should also know where the glass ceiling is.
 
You know, after having slammed Malcolm Gladwell, I’m going to quote him. In his book, “Tipping Point”, he studied epidemics and trends. Why do some things become really popular? So it is useful for us to apply his formula to the local music scene and we see what we can come up with. Here is a summary so you don’t have to read the book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point_(book)

First there is the “law of the few”. This means that relatively few people have a great effect on music trends. We have connectors, who know a lot of people, the mavens, who pass around a lot of information, and the salesmen, who are good at persuading people to buy stuff. Singaporeans do not excel in any of these 3 roles. I don’t think Singaporeans are good networkers, but that’s also because of our small critical mass. We are not mavens: If we know about good stuff, we don’t have people talking up all their favourite bands and trying to push them. I know I wasn’t like that – I was the only kid in my class listening to Nirvana and Jimi Hendrix when everybody was listening to Bon Jovi and Guns n Roses. I did not bother to change them. And salesmen: I’m struggling to think of Singaporean musicians who have charisma. Maybe there is Mr Public Enemy of Singapore Indie Music himself, Dick-with-a-capital-D Lee. Singaporeans like to keep their middle fingers retracted. We get slapped too often for sticking out. I can’t even say lovelovelovelove you on this forum. lovelovelovelove you. See, I’m feeling the love already.

Then there is the stickiness factor, and for me that relates to the quality of the music. Well, can’t get around the fact that you need great music.

Last is the power of context. I think that relates to the audience, and whether you’re selling them something that they want. Even though it is definitely true that you have to give the audience what they want, it is not necessarily true that what they want tomorrow is the same as what they wanted yesterday. Sometimes the ground is ripe for change, and we have the upcoming 20th anniversary of Nirvana’s “Nevermind” to remind ourselves that there was a period when American Indie music conquered the pop charts. But the power of context also shows us that the audience plays a very big factor in the Singapore music scene – you just don’t have a great scene without having a great audience. This would explain why music trends are so fickle – because peoples’ tastes are that way.

And loosely it would translate to what I’ve said before were the 3 main components of a music scene. The first is the media, the second is the music and the performers, and the third is the audience. All 3 must be good.

So now that we know what are the ingredients of a good scene, all we have to do is get a few people, split up the work, different people work on different components of what makes a good scene, and we're all set.
 
Seems like I'm talking to a kid rather then a musician... sigh... whatever you said was contradicting in itself to what you were portraying...
 
Look this is exactly what i mean... musicians without understanding having all the little that they have trying to show off like they know everything... crystal castle is industrial electronica and what she does is not even close to scatting... she doesn't anyhow "whack" but she is doing standard song phrasing and putting it thru a vocoder and changing her voice...

Scat originally originated from Jazz and was made famous by Ella Fizgerald by using the voice and making it an instrument taking the lead usually from the Saxaphone line.... sorry whats all that trash that you were saying earlier?
 
Seems like I'm talking to a kid rather then a musician... sigh... whatever you said was contradicting in itself to what you were portraying...

Whoa I found that to be rather offensive even though it wasn't directed at me, anyways I don't agree with your earlier post too.
 
I think what we have here is a failure to recognise that what Crystal Castles is doing is in spirit scatting. Scatting is using the voice as an instrument.

Music is never about following rules. It is about inventing rules. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter if you have followed all the rules. If my kid was in your class I'd pull him out.

When people start to get down and talk about music there are 2 typical responses among Singaporeans which are not very helpful. Your response is #1, which is, "I'm the teacher, you're the student, shut up and sit down. You're wrong, you're contradicting yourself." A great advertisement for your maturity as an instructor, I'm sure.

The second response is, "Get off your armchair and do some work". Which ignores the point that we need a more sophisticated audience and the only way that's going to happen is if more people talk about music.
 
Last edited:
Armchair critics don't get much respect, that is par for the course. But the sad fact is that Singaporeans don't make good armchair critics either. Kinda sad to be failing at something that people look down upon.
 
OMGSH What ego!! and which dictionary are you getting your terms from? Spirit scatting sommore... if thats the case then I'm spirit riffing by playing the guitar with my elbow... come on you don't even have any respect for this industry! An artist has every right to classify their Genre of music and in this case they have as INDUSTRIAL ELECTRONICA! You did not write the music you did not write the songs you did not even touch the mic that recorded the song yet you have the guts to create a term based on something that the artiste have created? If you know nothing about the industry learn no one is stopping you just don't talk like you do! embarrassing much?
 
Look centralcatchment 7/8 time signature my elude you or the algebraic complexity in music may in your mind seem as anyhow "Wack" but the truth is that you don't understand nuts about music. I may not understand much about music but at least i don't spout nonsense and act like i do! Everything in music follows certain structure and there are rules... if everyone follows your no rules structure you will end up composing crap!

I sure very soon your gonna say drumline music is also anyhow whack... but i wouldn't blame you with your lack of knowledge...
 
@Razoredge, scatting didn't originate with Ella Fitzgerald. It was Louis Armstrong, who came earlier, who pioneered wordless syllabic singing.

Horns first tried to imitate voices, it wasn't really the other way around, that's why many typical "jazz" horn articulations imitate vocal techniques that originated in Negro Spirituals. Eventually the boundaries got a little blurred as singers got better and bored with what they normally did.

And by the way, you are extremely emotional and rude to someone who's just trying to have a discussion. If his reply is not good enough for you to engage civilly, you should just leave and find a place where you can talk to people as smart and educated as yourself.

@centralcatchment, at the risk of sounding like an arse, I have to agree that your writing can be pretty self contradictory, and you should make an effort not to bandy terms about, because there's a whole lot of history behind many of them.

And the people who have wasted their lives studying this history will take umbrage at your innacuracy.

However, I do not think you are a "kid", and you have views that are worth respecting. They would have much more weight if you didn't leave so many holes in your argument (point of view, whatever), so lots of reading up is in order.
 
Carried away? You didn't even read it right:

"what Crystal Castles is doing is in spirit scatting."

means

"what Crystal Castles is doing is, in spirit, scatting."

NOT

"what Crystal Castles is doing is spirit scatting."

This thread gets more entertaining with each new contender.
 
But its not even scatting?! Its like calling metal in spirit rock... acceptable to some but its really not the same thing!!!
 
Well you see why I've decided not to participate further in this discussion. I'm talking to somebody who denies the lineage between metal and rock. He's going to split so many hairs that it'll be a waste of time talking to him. I don't think, sniping at one or two points aside, that we're going to address the issues. And if I had to explain everything I said in detail, this thread would become a monologue. So I'll leave it here.
 
Your assumed ignorance in adversity is indeed a trait from a purebred Singaporean musician.... k haha we shall stop here then ;)
 
Back
Top