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Marketing of local music..is it worth?
- Thread starter HaMLeT
- Start date
sound_designer
New member
If you have real good stuff, you can talk to big lables like BMG, Warner and Sony..
But Local market always sucks !!
People have the mentality for getting free things 8O
How to sell your stuff locally..Even though you are a local and you brand yourself and sell your album from overseas to Singapore..you have chance..If you start marketing locally first as local musician..Forget it..MRT underpass is the end....
Big, talented musicians like Tanya and Kit chan can't do much in Singapore where they could outside....
How many Singaporean Musicians have been successful in Singapore ??
Do we encourage our own talents? That's a big question...unanswered..
But Local market always sucks !!
People have the mentality for getting free things 8O
How to sell your stuff locally..Even though you are a local and you brand yourself and sell your album from overseas to Singapore..you have chance..If you start marketing locally first as local musician..Forget it..MRT underpass is the end....
Big, talented musicians like Tanya and Kit chan can't do much in Singapore where they could outside....
How many Singaporean Musicians have been successful in Singapore ??
Do we encourage our own talents? That's a big question...unanswered..
guitar_phreak
New member
Given that our country is small, the market is too tiny to support any decent band by itself.
Even our pop stars can't survive here alone, they market their stuff overseas...like Stef Sun, Tanya...etc in HK, CHina, Taiwan...
As a band playing English songs, best will be in Ozz, maybe even HK, China and Taiwan too (they accept English stuff lately....really)
I think maybe check out the market 1st... I'm no expert, but definitely got more appeal. Bands like JET playing semi-retro rock seems to do well. Emo stuff is also making its rounds in US and Euro... If you are doing hard rock progressive stuff, the underground scene in US, Ozz and Euro is not bad.
In Singapore? Minus the SHE fans...the Britney fans....the Robbie Fans....etc... I think you'll only be left with a handful of metal heads and underground dudes....hardly able to sell more than 50CDs...
Even our pop stars can't survive here alone, they market their stuff overseas...like Stef Sun, Tanya...etc in HK, CHina, Taiwan...
As a band playing English songs, best will be in Ozz, maybe even HK, China and Taiwan too (they accept English stuff lately....really)
I think maybe check out the market 1st... I'm no expert, but definitely got more appeal. Bands like JET playing semi-retro rock seems to do well. Emo stuff is also making its rounds in US and Euro... If you are doing hard rock progressive stuff, the underground scene in US, Ozz and Euro is not bad.
In Singapore? Minus the SHE fans...the Britney fans....the Robbie Fans....etc... I think you'll only be left with a handful of metal heads and underground dudes....hardly able to sell more than 50CDs...
hifi_killer
New member
y do the people always blame the market? I think if we keep blaming on our listeners our tiny market, it will be very difficult for us to move on. The boredphucks debut album sold 5000 copies in a week, in Singapore. Their music is amazingly simple and catchy, and thats y they made it big.
naturally they will be popular wherever they go even in australia.
And quite recently. i saw electrico's album on the shelves of sembawang music, and i bought it.
Its still possible to market ur music here.
If ur not prepared to leave the underground scene, then forget about entering the mainstream and marketing ur music.
So if u cant even impress ordinary Singaporean folks with Singapore music, wad makes u think u can convince angmohs to like ur music. Are local bands based in foreign lands more successful that those in Singapore? I dont think so.
for for info bout the local music scene pls check out this site http://www.bigo.com.sg/archive/ARfeatures/ARboredpucks.html
naturally they will be popular wherever they go even in australia.
And quite recently. i saw electrico's album on the shelves of sembawang music, and i bought it.
Its still possible to market ur music here.
If ur not prepared to leave the underground scene, then forget about entering the mainstream and marketing ur music.
So if u cant even impress ordinary Singaporean folks with Singapore music, wad makes u think u can convince angmohs to like ur music. Are local bands based in foreign lands more successful that those in Singapore? I dont think so.
for for info bout the local music scene pls check out this site http://www.bigo.com.sg/archive/ARfeatures/ARboredpucks.html
HeartRockSingapore
New member
I could not agree more with hifi killer. I like his point on "if you are not prepared to leave underground, forget about mainstream and marketing" unquote. If I may also add that many bands mislead themselves into believing that when they perform or cut an album, they must show a lot of their skills and complexities, whether instrumental or vocal in order that the audience can know and appreciate how good they are. That is untrue. Dragging and over killing kills. Simplicity and catchiness, as HFK say is what make an album sells.
Sure, promotions and advertising is important (propagated by vanganblue), but not al all. From a businessman's point of view, it does not matter to me whether a piece is local or foreign, as long as it is GOOD and can make money. There are many tested ways that can make things work, so local biasness and smallish market really is not such an obstacle. Having watch many bands perform, I must say that it is not the end of the road, but the way ahead is quite long and tough. So what? We can think of ways to shorten it, lessen the difficulties and we can make it there in a shorter time if we are prepared to work at it.
Sure, promotions and advertising is important (propagated by vanganblue), but not al all. From a businessman's point of view, it does not matter to me whether a piece is local or foreign, as long as it is GOOD and can make money. There are many tested ways that can make things work, so local biasness and smallish market really is not such an obstacle. Having watch many bands perform, I must say that it is not the end of the road, but the way ahead is quite long and tough. So what? We can think of ways to shorten it, lessen the difficulties and we can make it there in a shorter time if we are prepared to work at it.
I don't think we should talk about skills and techniques on how you play your songs man. Just imagine this, you go to void decks and shred, people will be like, huh?wth u doing? Whereas you play some nice melodic tunes, blues, jazz whatever, anything that sounds soothing and makes u wanna move, people will listen. What im trying to say is, to me playing band or wanting to get so called famous in Singapore, you gotta play what people likes and not what you like.
You wanna get your album sold out in months or even weeks in SG, you gotta play things which fits SGreans ears. For instance like what hifi_killer had said, boredphucks. I heard their songs, real simple and very catchy, lyrics are quite interesting. Not like they've got killer riffs and solos. Still people like me and many others listen to them. And also our country is rather small, and most of the people students example, go for chinese pop and though bands, but punk bands, emos.
Only a small portion of them listen to metal, and rock. Im not saying there would be no rock or metal bands making it big in SG, im a metalhead myself : P but i just feel that SG cant really make it big in metal and rock scene.. Internationally, to even talk about locally. sigh... I don't think many or rather, any big label companies would wanna sign a SGrean band up for metal heh?... But hey, if again, you've got the talent and the music is superb, why not? : ) OHH and also, not forgetting the looks. Most SG peeps, see looks 1st. If you're not good looking or pretty, they'll not really bother about your music too. Agree? : P
You wanna get your album sold out in months or even weeks in SG, you gotta play things which fits SGreans ears. For instance like what hifi_killer had said, boredphucks. I heard their songs, real simple and very catchy, lyrics are quite interesting. Not like they've got killer riffs and solos. Still people like me and many others listen to them. And also our country is rather small, and most of the people students example, go for chinese pop and though bands, but punk bands, emos.
Only a small portion of them listen to metal, and rock. Im not saying there would be no rock or metal bands making it big in SG, im a metalhead myself : P but i just feel that SG cant really make it big in metal and rock scene.. Internationally, to even talk about locally. sigh... I don't think many or rather, any big label companies would wanna sign a SGrean band up for metal heh?... But hey, if again, you've got the talent and the music is superb, why not? : ) OHH and also, not forgetting the looks. Most SG peeps, see looks 1st. If you're not good looking or pretty, they'll not really bother about your music too. Agree? : P
hifi_killer
New member
by the way.. i seem to notice local bands are afraid to show the Singaporean influence. I mean just listen, they sound so american. They are afraid to show the Singaporean context in their lyrics, would prefer the use of soda over teh tarik. They will so try as far as possible to fake the american accent. Melody wise, u cant pick up any signs of oriental influences. I think, one of the biggest and most obvious sell off points of local music, is being able to relate to the local context. Not many bands have done that(i think!).
HeartRockSingapore
New member
Let's step back, take an uninvolve look. Ask ourselves and ask others, what does local audience wants. If locals buy imported stuffs, it must be something that they like, perhaps not just because it's foreign. Is it the lyrics? Is it the music? Or is it the accent? It may indeed be part or all. Find that out! The band BUMI handed me their yet to be launch album meant for a show in Oct. I listen to it and concluded, though not absolutely that local products with local flavours does impress the foreign sourcing/marketing people, who are desperate for new things. Wholesale copying is likely to be rejected on utmost reason, they already have too much of it. I am not Malay, but I must say that when a Malay band produces music, it comes with a rich cultural flavour, and that cultural flavour appeals. Recently I heard a US band using the tune of a Hong Kong produced song. Hey guys, the market is yours to catch if your have your ears and eyes wide open.
guitar_phreak
New member
As mentioned before,
individual skill is very important. But starting a band without consideration of the market is too myopic. Trying to understand the trends in the market is very important, and looking at demographics, Singapore is REALLY a small market. (eg. 5000 copies is like average business only if you think about the accounting/business aspects)
Starting a band in my opinion is like starting a business. Are you providing the people what they want? If not, is there a possibility of developing the market (increase market size/trends) ? Making them like what you are playing? Is it sustainable?
So, having skills is not enuff, you need to know what connects to the crowd.
As for the local "flavour", I'm sure its a very open debate. What is local flavour? There was this band singing Zoe Tay or something sometime ago...(was it boredphucks?). Local flavour A+, was it a hit with local crowd? Yeah... but once beyond our borders, people will go like WTF? Given our "half bucket water" culture here (with reference to the Chinese), we really have to find our own identity because if you talk about chinese oriental influences, I don't think we can "smell" the bands from HK, Taiwan and PRC. So, the pseudo American, Ozz influence isn't such a bad thing if it means foreign countries can relate to the music better.
Ultimately, bands will want to work at trying to develop their niche music.. sell their brand...and sustain their effort. If its attractive, the market will surely respond nicely...and if the sound agrees with the global audience, all the better.
individual skill is very important. But starting a band without consideration of the market is too myopic. Trying to understand the trends in the market is very important, and looking at demographics, Singapore is REALLY a small market. (eg. 5000 copies is like average business only if you think about the accounting/business aspects)
Starting a band in my opinion is like starting a business. Are you providing the people what they want? If not, is there a possibility of developing the market (increase market size/trends) ? Making them like what you are playing? Is it sustainable?
So, having skills is not enuff, you need to know what connects to the crowd.
As for the local "flavour", I'm sure its a very open debate. What is local flavour? There was this band singing Zoe Tay or something sometime ago...(was it boredphucks?). Local flavour A+, was it a hit with local crowd? Yeah... but once beyond our borders, people will go like WTF? Given our "half bucket water" culture here (with reference to the Chinese), we really have to find our own identity because if you talk about chinese oriental influences, I don't think we can "smell" the bands from HK, Taiwan and PRC. So, the pseudo American, Ozz influence isn't such a bad thing if it means foreign countries can relate to the music better.
Ultimately, bands will want to work at trying to develop their niche music.. sell their brand...and sustain their effort. If its attractive, the market will surely respond nicely...and if the sound agrees with the global audience, all the better.
hifi_killer
New member
small market is NOT an obstacle, Just look at jamaica. They have a local population smaller than Singapore. Still the local music scene is so much more alive. There is a strong presence local flavours in their music, lotsa of reggae and stuff like that. Not only are they successful at home,they have exported quite a number of musicans to the world market.
Early pop chinese music have lots of oriental influences, just listen to the stuff ur parents sing on karaoke. Its because of this, they manage to capture the hearts of large number of chinese audiences.. Hence they are able to gradually change the feel of Chinese music without losing much listenership. Therefore embracing local flavours would be a good headstart for our local bands.
I think it would be beneficial to Singapore as a whole if our bands plays stuff that appeals to Singaporeans, because thats ultimately contributing to the local music scene. It doesnt make sense if u venture elsewhere when u hafnt conquered Singapore yet.So wad if u really made it big in australia? You hafnt contributed anything to the local music scene.How many of these bands will want to return to Singapore?are this the "quiters" we want in Singapore? imagine if all the bands seek "greener" pastures elsewhere, wad will happen to Singapore's music scene? I urge local bands to appeal to the local audience 1st, before venturing elsewhere. It'll be beneficial to everyone in the long run.
...thats just my 5 cents worth, no pun intended
Early pop chinese music have lots of oriental influences, just listen to the stuff ur parents sing on karaoke. Its because of this, they manage to capture the hearts of large number of chinese audiences.. Hence they are able to gradually change the feel of Chinese music without losing much listenership. Therefore embracing local flavours would be a good headstart for our local bands.
I think it would be beneficial to Singapore as a whole if our bands plays stuff that appeals to Singaporeans, because thats ultimately contributing to the local music scene. It doesnt make sense if u venture elsewhere when u hafnt conquered Singapore yet.So wad if u really made it big in australia? You hafnt contributed anything to the local music scene.How many of these bands will want to return to Singapore?are this the "quiters" we want in Singapore? imagine if all the bands seek "greener" pastures elsewhere, wad will happen to Singapore's music scene? I urge local bands to appeal to the local audience 1st, before venturing elsewhere. It'll be beneficial to everyone in the long run.
...thats just my 5 cents worth, no pun intended
HaMLeT said:Hi there...juz curious wonder wil it b beneficial if local musician market their original to countries such as Australia, Germany or US.....WHICH CONCEPT WIL B MOST ACCEPTABLE BY TIS COUNTRIES?...any1 wanna giv sincere comments??? :wink:
i think it will be more easier to penetrate if we promote our own local originalities / identities.. what i mean is performance with our own traditional musical instruments.. jez like kung-fu. it's so popular in hollywood.
wan
Singaporeans? hmmm..i wonder wat kind of music can a band play to appeal Singaporeans. Many things to consider if u wanna make it big here. But nothing is impossible if u really work hard. The question is how? .. ..anyway, how big is ur big? 5000? 10,000?
Local flavours? Singapore is multi-racial..is there any kind of flavour to appeal the local scene here and most importantly out there. hopefully there is..nothing is impossible...hmmm..
If only there is a radio station playing 100% local bands here in Singapore. surely the bands out there will compete to top up the local charts..isn't it great?..then we know which is good and which is awful..Y isn't there such a radio station? hmmm...too much of perfect 10 and 98 and MTV i guess..too much of those foreign bands out there thru eyeboxes and earboxes..cant blame u guys for picking up the influence..me too..fanatic bout all those foreign bands..
will singaporeans look up to ur band in the first place? wat do u have to make them go crazy? hmm..if only there's a band making it big out there..selling millions and millions.. and u guys are crazy bout them but never know that they are actualli singaporeans..u guys cover their songs in ur jam sessions or gigs without knowing their background..then one fine day the band unmask themselves and u guys realise that's the band u've booed before at youth park.
u can TEST the market here as a start..u might make it big..very big..or bigger than boredphucks..or maybe singapore will see nothing special in u but later on with so much popularity in US..singapore will welcome u back at changi airport.
our guys here in singapore have got great potential..i've seen it...some even got the look and image to sell..better than some foreign bands out there that we always listen to..but wat happen to them?
Anyway...nothing is impossible..many examples around us..maybe we can learn from them to achieve our goals.
Local flavours? Singapore is multi-racial..is there any kind of flavour to appeal the local scene here and most importantly out there. hopefully there is..nothing is impossible...hmmm..
If only there is a radio station playing 100% local bands here in Singapore. surely the bands out there will compete to top up the local charts..isn't it great?..then we know which is good and which is awful..Y isn't there such a radio station? hmmm...too much of perfect 10 and 98 and MTV i guess..too much of those foreign bands out there thru eyeboxes and earboxes..cant blame u guys for picking up the influence..me too..fanatic bout all those foreign bands..
will singaporeans look up to ur band in the first place? wat do u have to make them go crazy? hmm..if only there's a band making it big out there..selling millions and millions.. and u guys are crazy bout them but never know that they are actualli singaporeans..u guys cover their songs in ur jam sessions or gigs without knowing their background..then one fine day the band unmask themselves and u guys realise that's the band u've booed before at youth park.
u can TEST the market here as a start..u might make it big..very big..or bigger than boredphucks..or maybe singapore will see nothing special in u but later on with so much popularity in US..singapore will welcome u back at changi airport.
our guys here in singapore have got great potential..i've seen it...some even got the look and image to sell..better than some foreign bands out there that we always listen to..but wat happen to them?
Anyway...nothing is impossible..many examples around us..maybe we can learn from them to achieve our goals.
HeartRockSingapore
New member
Hey, maybe let's pause for a moment from discussion, but get on with it later. Let's put all this on a paper and see what kind of assistance we can get from relevant agencies. We'll get the mass media to cover the process and show people out there that we are serious about what we are talking.
yeah..that's it..the key is our own local mass media...i know there are many competitions, gigs and shows being held..but i tink that's not enuf..if we have the support of mass media, 50% of the promotion efforts is achieved. Mass media support need to be regular and ongoing...
imagine there's a radio station playing 100% local bands, a regular programme by MTVasia or MediaCorp featuring 100% local bands and etc...surely a demand will be created and there will be a great impact on the local scene and the market as well..
but that is not all..aniwei is ur band marketable?..study the market ..study the demand for ur music here..do we want ur music?..do we desire ur band and ur music?..most importantly are we able or want to pay for ur music?
last but not least...there many groups of consumers..we all have different tongues..hit the rite one..don't try to be all things to all people..in other words, jack of all trades and master of none..u'll fail to be significant to anyone..anyway dats one absolute rule of marketing..
imagine there's a radio station playing 100% local bands, a regular programme by MTVasia or MediaCorp featuring 100% local bands and etc...surely a demand will be created and there will be a great impact on the local scene and the market as well..
but that is not all..aniwei is ur band marketable?..study the market ..study the demand for ur music here..do we want ur music?..do we desire ur band and ur music?..most importantly are we able or want to pay for ur music?
last but not least...there many groups of consumers..we all have different tongues..hit the rite one..don't try to be all things to all people..in other words, jack of all trades and master of none..u'll fail to be significant to anyone..anyway dats one absolute rule of marketing..
guitar_phreak
New member
Well, for the sake of encouraging discussion..
I really don't see why the small local market is not an obstacle. An obstacle doesn't mean it cannot be overcome, just that one must consider it. Many commercial organisations do alot of calculations before investing. Many times, investing $100,000 for perhaps 1% or 2% return is too low...not even worth considering. Maybe if the returns were higher like 20% or the volume larger...then its worth it. Sad fact of commercialism choking music.
Then again, the bands themselves can take the plunge and finance themselves....but that'll be a problem.
Anyway, here's my thoughts from a layman point of view.
Secondly, the idea of an "underground" or local radio station is really really cool. I think a radio station...or online station blasting Local Rock, Local pop, even local metal at alloted times is great. Again sadly...the commercial beast could be a stumbling block....plus the application of a private broadcasting license is ridiculously hard....unless you get under the umbrella of mediacorp or mediawerks
Also, to add on to the culture flavour thing, I thin kthe old 'hokkien' songs are still applicable to our migrant parents/grandparents..etc but the younger folk are more rojak. We have a unique mix of east meets west. We're not completely chinese, not exactly western. Its lucky I think the indians and malays still have strong cultural roots...so they're brand of music is still going strong.
I really don't see why the small local market is not an obstacle. An obstacle doesn't mean it cannot be overcome, just that one must consider it. Many commercial organisations do alot of calculations before investing. Many times, investing $100,000 for perhaps 1% or 2% return is too low...not even worth considering. Maybe if the returns were higher like 20% or the volume larger...then its worth it. Sad fact of commercialism choking music.
Then again, the bands themselves can take the plunge and finance themselves....but that'll be a problem.
Anyway, here's my thoughts from a layman point of view.
Secondly, the idea of an "underground" or local radio station is really really cool. I think a radio station...or online station blasting Local Rock, Local pop, even local metal at alloted times is great. Again sadly...the commercial beast could be a stumbling block....plus the application of a private broadcasting license is ridiculously hard....unless you get under the umbrella of mediacorp or mediawerks
Also, to add on to the culture flavour thing, I thin kthe old 'hokkien' songs are still applicable to our migrant parents/grandparents..etc but the younger folk are more rojak. We have a unique mix of east meets west. We're not completely chinese, not exactly western. Its lucky I think the indians and malays still have strong cultural roots...so they're brand of music is still going strong.
We can all make a difference in the local music market!
Hi, there is still hope for local music market. Thats why Im always in supporting local bands to release their albums. I believe that by making a impact strong enough, my label will be able to create an awareness for the media. what local bands or music lack in is QC. Because there is no one professional enough to QC every bands, that's why many bands performing in publics produces junks! this spoil the image of local bands. If we all work hard together, I believe we can level up the standard of local music. I myself cannot do much...it needs all and everyone's effort.
The media is supportive for local music so far but it has to be of certain standard. Band must watch out for your own QC!
Hi, there is still hope for local music market. Thats why Im always in supporting local bands to release their albums. I believe that by making a impact strong enough, my label will be able to create an awareness for the media. what local bands or music lack in is QC. Because there is no one professional enough to QC every bands, that's why many bands performing in publics produces junks! this spoil the image of local bands. If we all work hard together, I believe we can level up the standard of local music. I myself cannot do much...it needs all and everyone's effort.
The media is supportive for local music so far but it has to be of certain standard. Band must watch out for your own QC!
hifi_killer
New member
Radio plays only wad pple wanna listen. Actually there used to be a radio station that plays like 2 hours of continous local music everyday. But it closed down at the end of last year. y did it close down? Low listenership, less than 1 % of total audience. Bands were prolly not radio-friendly enough, and yes recording quality sux. Passion 99.5 was supported by National Arts Council and it closed down. I wonder how will these "underground" radio stations fare. Then again, the gahmen can force a law on the radiostations, to play 4 local songs per hour. But i dont see the point of forcing such a law, since our local bands are simply not prepared to get on the radio. Its not that the radio stations purposely discriminate local music. its just that most of the time its not up to standard. It will play local music only if its up to standard just like stuff like electrico and boredphucks
Its kinda ironic to blame commericialisation for everything. Commericialisation is afterall the thing that allows musicians to make a living. if you wanna succeed, u gotta play the game of commercialisation well, abide by the rules.
Once again, if we keep blaming the radio stations, the market, the people, it will be very hard for us to make any progress
Its kinda ironic to blame commericialisation for everything. Commericialisation is afterall the thing that allows musicians to make a living. if you wanna succeed, u gotta play the game of commercialisation well, abide by the rules.
Once again, if we keep blaming the radio stations, the market, the people, it will be very hard for us to make any progress
Many bands out there..I've seen it..they are realli up to standard..not radio frenly enuf? Poor recording quality? Where did they find those bands? How did they scout for the bands? No wonder.. hmmm... We need somebody who realli understand the scene..somebody who has great knowledge in local bands and the scene here..somebody who not only know electrico and boredphucks..
hmm..how did soft.com.sg get so popular? a community of nearly 4000 members..anyway..y am i saying this? hmm..haha
hmm..how did soft.com.sg get so popular? a community of nearly 4000 members..anyway..y am i saying this? hmm..haha
hifi_killer
New member
wow that sounded alot like a personal attack..
by the way, understanding the music scene doesnt merely mean understanding the bands only. It was quoted in the newspaper quite a while ago that indeed recording quality was quite an issue for local music. Radio stations wouldnt wanna play ur low recording quality song even if its some great stuff. Thats quite an issue since it would cost a bomb to conduct a proper recording and mastering of ur demos . thats y we need people like wakemeup and dreamteam to assist in the production duties. Not pessimistic people who are forever whining about the scene, dreaming of radio stations that plays 100% local music.
The standard thing is pretty subjective. i was there at baybeats, i saw alot of bands which i thought was pretty awesome. but does it matters? in the end they are still at the mercy of our radio stations, because they're simply not good(by their standards) enough for radio airplay. Thats just it.. well.. couldnt put it across better than dreamteam
by the way, understanding the music scene doesnt merely mean understanding the bands only. It was quoted in the newspaper quite a while ago that indeed recording quality was quite an issue for local music. Radio stations wouldnt wanna play ur low recording quality song even if its some great stuff. Thats quite an issue since it would cost a bomb to conduct a proper recording and mastering of ur demos . thats y we need people like wakemeup and dreamteam to assist in the production duties. Not pessimistic people who are forever whining about the scene, dreaming of radio stations that plays 100% local music.
The standard thing is pretty subjective. i was there at baybeats, i saw alot of bands which i thought was pretty awesome. but does it matters? in the end they are still at the mercy of our radio stations, because they're simply not good(by their standards) enough for radio airplay. Thats just it.. well.. couldnt put it across better than dreamteam
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