Lyrics, melody and singing

[Ngai Meng]

Hi

I'm not sure if this is a silly question but i will ask it anyway:

Is it possible for a composer to fit a melody to a set of lyrics, if he/she can't sing?

If not, how can one explain the instances in which there are composers who specialize in 'melody-fitting' (谱曲）
(and their lyricist counterparts who specialize in 'lyrics-fitting' (谱词)), which are especially commonplace for
chinese popular music?

Thanks,
Ngai Meng

 

[centralcatchment]

What's important is that the singer must be able to sing that melody. You don't have to be the singer.
If nobody can sing it, then what's the point? If you want to change the range of the song to fit the singer just do a simple transposition.

I don't write Chinese songs so it's hard for me to comment on Chinese lyric writing. Writing lyrics in Chinese is tough because when you take away the pitch away from the words, they are harder to interpret.

I usually write the melody first, rather than the lyrics. That will probably be the case in the future because I have a backlog of melodies and no lyrics. I've never written the lyrics first and then written the melody over it. That is hard, although I understand that "Alfie" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAuoNa5g6i8) was written this way. That is difficult, and this song is considered as one of the greatest songs from a master songwriter. Note how clever the songwriter has to be, and how many times the melody has to change to fit the words.

It is hard enough to come up with a song where the notes make sense, the chords make sense, and on top of it, people actually want to listen to it. If you write the lyrics afterwards, then it's not that hard. And there is some leeway to cram the lyrics in. (Sometimes you fit 3 syllables into 2 notes, or you fit 1 syllable into 2 notes, etc.) I'm not an expert at writing lyrics but usually, based on the mood of the song, you start with a rough idea of what the song is about. Then you write lyrics around that topic / subject.

Writing both lyrics and music at the same time - I don't know how people do it. Technically either the music is written first or the lyrics are written first. The rules of how the melodies fit the words will be familiar to anybody who has taken Grade 6 theory or above.

 

[centralcatchment]

Hope that this is actually what you were asking about.

 

[Ngai Meng]

Hi

I really appreciate your attentive reply and for sharing with me so much about your approach to composition!
You are one of the very few people I know from this forum who have been so helpful on this particular topic.

The administrators should immediately raise your rep power! =D

 

[centralcatchment]

You're welcome. As you may have noticed I sometimes blog about songwriting as a hobby. You might want to go check out that blog (link below) if you haven't already done so, although given that blogging about songwriting is so much work, it is almost as bad as writing itself. I find myself having to transcribe everything so that people can see what I'm talking about.

So much of songwriting is about listening to music and figuring out what are the ideas in the songs that you like to listen to. Even the songs that are lousy can teach you a lot because they make you think about what does not work. So in a way thinking about songwriting is not really that different from songwriting itself.

 

[greybackshadow]

Hello there! I know my reply is kinda late (gonna try to be more active from now on)...but nevertheless, lemme share some stuff with you! Hopefully you can benefit from it.

You don't have to be a singer to compose, write, fit lyric/melody into their vice versa, etc.

So far I've only written two songs whereby the lyrics were written down first, followed by the melody. For one of songs, I first started writing on the chorus, then slowly branch out. The whole tune came to me through reading out the lyrics. The syllables will guide you on how many notes a particular line should have.

But I have to be honest, it was tough! Especially when the previous two lines have been going well and fitting, then the next line has an influx of syllables that spoils the melody and make you go "WTF!" I will still suggest trying at least once to write a song with the lyrics first. It's an experience and you'll find it benefiting!

Alot of my friends always debate on whether which is of more importance, melody or lyrics. This is a "Personal Opinion" kind of thing. To me it would be melody, cause melody is not just about the music notes. If you look carefully at it, melody itself has rhythm. As what my lecturer told me before: "A melody is a series of musical notes arranged in succession, in a particular rhythmic pattern, to form a recognizable unit." SO TECHNICAL!!!!

Anyway, when you first try out things like song writing or even trying to fit melody into a set of lyric, you'll find it difficult, hard to understand how it works, etc. That's because we lack the experience. Once you keep doing it, you'll get the hang of it and things will be fine!

On a side note, do check out my stuff!
Do check out my works:
http://soundcloud.com/yunxiang

If you wanna know my gears and what I'm currently doing with music, do check this one out:
http://chongyunxiang.wordpress.com/

 

[Cheez]

Either melody and lyrics can come first. But my experience is (from a theory background and how we are trained) when melody is put into lyrics (ie lyrics come first), it adds a certain extra element. I've put a number of melodies to lyrics (Chinese ones) written by someone else. The process for me is:

1. Talk with the person who wrote the lyrics - and (for me the melody writer) to understand the feeling/ethos behind the song. The more I understand the feeling of the lyric writer (and the background), the better I understand how to put melody into it.

2. Draft out melody - taking care of "bringing out" the lyrics. The melody, if written well with climax at the right places can bring life to the lyrics.

3. Meet with the writer again. By this time, I would have found out things that may need to change - eg. lyrics doesn't quite fit the rhythm or timing, or certain words need to be taken out or added in to make better sense musically (sometimes, I would suggest about rhyme as well). This stage to me is a co-writing process. I give suggestions, the lyric writer gives suggestions, and we both come up with something we think works.

4. Go back to the melody again and ensure the key element of a good song is there: ie to be able to sing it! Key, range etc must be right. No point having a song only one or two professional singers can sing it. We want EVERYBODY to be able to sing the song.

5. Then comes the arrangement of the piece. Right instruments must be used and arranged correctly for one purpose - to bring out the meaning and feeling to the lyrics.

My 2 cents. While many comes out with melody first (and it's ok to do that), I suggest for writers to go back to the foundation of a song - the lyrics. Then put melody to lyrics.

In one song I put melody to, it was sang by some group in the US (Chinese song by the way). I was told that the people cried. Then I knew I succeeded in bringing out life to the lyrics. Those who sang felt the words and it spoke to them. That's the aim for me - the melody writer.

 

[Cheez]

Oh, forgot to answer the thread-starter's question.

"Is it possible for a composer to fit a melody to a set of lyrics, if he/she can't sing?"

My take is: it's going to be difficult. The key to a melody of a song is singing it. And yes, the best way is to have somebody else put in the melody. And yes, there are people who only write lyrics and those who only write melodies.

 

[greybackshadow]

Wow cheez, I checked out your music, and I like it! It's awesome. Love how your piano sounds! I like your work on "Final Battle (Narnia Suite)", sounds rich. I'm still learning how to arrange that kind of music. Any tips?

 

[Cheez]

Oh! Final Battle was a REALLY old piece. Wrote it about 10 years ago - when sampling still pretty new and developing! A lot of midi work is needed to get it to sound right. Anyway, we can start another thread. Don't have to hijack this thread!