Jazz stuff
- Thread starter oldmanbochi
- Start date
thanks guys, actually my qn is more of what is the listening approach u use when the key is change.
Not so much of what we can play over the progressions. I know there's lots of things we can play, but if we can't detect the change in key of the progression by ear, we can't improvise!!
For pop music, I use both the Do Re Mi solfege and intervals hearing to help me hear the progression, but when it comes key change, I am unable to figure out the exact change. Maybe I will try like what u guys suggested, listen for the chord changes and ignore the key for the moment. Maybe it will come as I practice more, thanks for the help
rgds
CK
Not so much of what we can play over the progressions. I know there's lots of things we can play, but if we can't detect the change in key of the progression by ear, we can't improvise!!
For pop music, I use both the Do Re Mi solfege and intervals hearing to help me hear the progression, but when it comes key change, I am unable to figure out the exact change. Maybe I will try like what u guys suggested, listen for the chord changes and ignore the key for the moment. Maybe it will come as I practice more, thanks for the help
rgds
CK
rottenramone
Active member
.
i think key will still remain and keep the song somewhat rooted? but i'm thinking from a very classical point of view.
i think key will still remain and keep the song somewhat rooted? but i'm thinking from a very classical point of view.
guitarman78
New member
RottonRamone: Yes, I love Miles Davis ... Kind of Blue ... or Mile Stones. You can try Wes Montgomery .... his guitar works is not that difficult to catch but his Phrasing and Melodic changes are amazing!!! He's one of my favourites .... if only i could think like him! Try 4 on 6 or West coast Blues.
Hub37: Sorry for the late reply ... pretty busy lately.
TENSIONS AND MELODIC MINOR
For 2, 5, 1 ... you can just play the tonic or as you say the key centre. Let's use the C key for example: You can still use a D dorian (C Ionian) on a Dm7 and Cmaj7 itself. No point deviating away unless you really hear something else ... like a D7b9 or something. You can use modes of Melodic minor for that.
As for the G7, there's alot more you can do. Because Dominant 7th Chords are highly unstable / High Tension chords (Notice you never end a song on a 5th), every tension on built on it gives you very colourful sound.
Example for G7 ... you can add tensions like G9, G11, G13 ... then flat or sharp the tensions like Gb13#11 or something like that. Another technic is to use a Ab Melodic Minor Arpeggio .... this will make your G sound like a G Super Locrian ... coz it literally is. The Ab Melodic Minor contains some tensions of G7 itself.
Melodic Minor is very useful for 6th chords .... #11 or #9 chords ... it's Obscure sounding coz it's used to improvise over these weird sounding chords. Which is very exciting! Modes of Melodic Minor are used in songs by Chick Corea / Keith Jarett. This is an area i've not discovered ... coz I am really just struggling over my basics!
KEY CHANGES ....
you really got to listen to common Key Changes in Songs and try to PLAY 2 SCALES AT THE SAME TIME!
For example: How High the Moon, |Gmaj7 | Gm7 C7| Fmaj7 |Fm7 C7|
Over here ... you have 2 Keys ... Gmaj7 and Fmaj7. The rule of the thumb is to play both scales on the same position .... this will help you change keys without having to jump all over the fingerboard. There are 15 full positions of the major scales across the board ... so you need to find 15 combinations of two keys ... and that's not the end of the story ...
Try Cheek to cheek ....
|Gmaj7 Em7| Am7 D7| x2 |Gmaj7 Am7 Bm7 Cmaj7| B7 E7 |
Notice the B7 and E7? It's really from E and A key respectively.
Or Misty ....
|Eb | Bbm7 Eb7| Abmaj7 | Abm7 Db7| Ebmaj7 Cm7| Fm7 Bb7| G7 C7|Fm7 Bb7|
There loads of 2,5,1 substitutions here ... all in different keys. You have Eb, Ab, F#, C, G.
Hence in the key of G .... you can find combinations of G to A, G to F, G to E, G to A, G to C and so on. Yes ... that's a lot of hard work!! Another way to find key changes is by using chords .... play a chord in different inversions ... then find the corresponding scale that fits on the same position. That way, you will be able to find the right scale for the right chord without worrying about the key.[/b]
Hub37: Sorry for the late reply ... pretty busy lately.
TENSIONS AND MELODIC MINOR
For 2, 5, 1 ... you can just play the tonic or as you say the key centre. Let's use the C key for example: You can still use a D dorian (C Ionian) on a Dm7 and Cmaj7 itself. No point deviating away unless you really hear something else ... like a D7b9 or something. You can use modes of Melodic minor for that.
As for the G7, there's alot more you can do. Because Dominant 7th Chords are highly unstable / High Tension chords (Notice you never end a song on a 5th), every tension on built on it gives you very colourful sound.
Example for G7 ... you can add tensions like G9, G11, G13 ... then flat or sharp the tensions like Gb13#11 or something like that. Another technic is to use a Ab Melodic Minor Arpeggio .... this will make your G sound like a G Super Locrian ... coz it literally is. The Ab Melodic Minor contains some tensions of G7 itself.
Melodic Minor is very useful for 6th chords .... #11 or #9 chords ... it's Obscure sounding coz it's used to improvise over these weird sounding chords. Which is very exciting! Modes of Melodic Minor are used in songs by Chick Corea / Keith Jarett. This is an area i've not discovered ... coz I am really just struggling over my basics!
KEY CHANGES ....
you really got to listen to common Key Changes in Songs and try to PLAY 2 SCALES AT THE SAME TIME!
For example: How High the Moon, |Gmaj7 | Gm7 C7| Fmaj7 |Fm7 C7|
Over here ... you have 2 Keys ... Gmaj7 and Fmaj7. The rule of the thumb is to play both scales on the same position .... this will help you change keys without having to jump all over the fingerboard. There are 15 full positions of the major scales across the board ... so you need to find 15 combinations of two keys ... and that's not the end of the story ...
Try Cheek to cheek ....
|Gmaj7 Em7| Am7 D7| x2 |Gmaj7 Am7 Bm7 Cmaj7| B7 E7 |
Notice the B7 and E7? It's really from E and A key respectively.
Or Misty ....
|Eb | Bbm7 Eb7| Abmaj7 | Abm7 Db7| Ebmaj7 Cm7| Fm7 Bb7| G7 C7|Fm7 Bb7|
There loads of 2,5,1 substitutions here ... all in different keys. You have Eb, Ab, F#, C, G.
Hence in the key of G .... you can find combinations of G to A, G to F, G to E, G to A, G to C and so on. Yes ... that's a lot of hard work!! Another way to find key changes is by using chords .... play a chord in different inversions ... then find the corresponding scale that fits on the same position. That way, you will be able to find the right scale for the right chord without worrying about the key.[/b]
rottenramone
Active member
..
uhhhhhhhhh
headache
uhhhhhhhhh
headache
guitarman78
New member
Pentatonic is no doubt still one of my favourites ... I love Rock too ya know ...
I mentioned something about Melodic Patterns? This is one of the routines i use for Melodic Patterns ....
Say a C Maj scale: Normally ppl will play C D E F G A B C.
What I was taught is to play a scale in regular pattern:
Example: D B C, E C D, F D E, G E F, A F G, B G A, C A G, D B C
By assuming 1 as the target note ... you realise that the pattern used is 2, 7, 1 (D B C).
Try practicing this way across the fretboard with all positions and mode ....
Then try different patterns:
1) 1 2 3 4
2) 4 3 2 1
3) 1 2 3
4) 3 2 1
5) 1 3
6) 3 1
7) 1 4
8) 4 1
9) 1 5
10) 5 1
11) 1 6
12) 6 1
13) 7 1 3 2
14) b2 b7 7 1
15) b2 7 1
I love playing around with the 6th ... sound like Dave Mathews Band ...
If you are able to master this without missing out a single note ... try playing Melodic patterns of Arpeggios for every note in the scale in different keys. When you are familiar with every single arpeggio possible ... and when you can practice till you drill all these melodic patterns into your brain without thinking it .... trying improvising. You will be playing intervals without even thinking about it. This means that you have already broke out of your box of linear playing.
WARNING: Trying the above exercise may cause severe High Blood Pressure for the Guitarist. Drink more water ... be still like water .. Hallelujah ...
I mentioned something about Melodic Patterns? This is one of the routines i use for Melodic Patterns ....
Say a C Maj scale: Normally ppl will play C D E F G A B C.
What I was taught is to play a scale in regular pattern:
Example: D B C, E C D, F D E, G E F, A F G, B G A, C A G, D B C
By assuming 1 as the target note ... you realise that the pattern used is 2, 7, 1 (D B C).
Try practicing this way across the fretboard with all positions and mode ....
Then try different patterns:
1) 1 2 3 4
2) 4 3 2 1
3) 1 2 3
4) 3 2 1
5) 1 3
6) 3 1
7) 1 4
8) 4 1
9) 1 5
10) 5 1
11) 1 6
12) 6 1
13) 7 1 3 2
14) b2 b7 7 1
15) b2 7 1
I love playing around with the 6th ... sound like Dave Mathews Band ...
If you are able to master this without missing out a single note ... try playing Melodic patterns of Arpeggios for every note in the scale in different keys. When you are familiar with every single arpeggio possible ... and when you can practice till you drill all these melodic patterns into your brain without thinking it .... trying improvising. You will be playing intervals without even thinking about it. This means that you have already broke out of your box of linear playing.
WARNING: Trying the above exercise may cause severe High Blood Pressure for the Guitarist. Drink more water ... be still like water .. Hallelujah ...
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
power!! Hey goose, you into meshuggah also? The solo album from Fredrik is also very steady. More wanky i find. But good
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
for you goose boss, not problem man! Pass ya when i pick up the noise therapy either tmr or friday, if you free 
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
ShredCow said:
the sax lesson is it on the voicing and stuff? I wanna learn that too, but too lazy and stupid
The raga one i find its fun, but as usual, laziness is mePatheinRaindropMoe said:ShredCow said:
the sax lesson is it on the voicing and stuff? I wanna learn that too, but too lazy and stupid
Ya, it is.
The raga one, aiyo, alternative picking. I suck at alternate picking.
Gimme economy over alternate anyday!
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
i pay horns on guitar with guitar synth, but its so corny that it make people laugh instead :lol:
