I need advise on home recording

[heafy2214]

Guys

I need advise on home recording for my band(drums, bass, 2guitars & vocals). What I would like to know is the equipments needed to start & something affordable. At the same time maybe can just list down the possible equipments needed & also the PC requirements for recording(eg types of soundcard, PC speed).

To tell u guys frankly, I know nuts about home recording & Would really appreciate if any kind souls help me out here.

Thanks in advice.

 

[Guest]

I've been using N-Track for the past 7 years. You can get a lot out of just the evaluation version. Visit:

http://www.n-track.com/

My PC specs: WinXP, P4, 512MB RAM, Asus onboard integrated soundcard.
Get a mixer for hooking up mics to your drumset, and vocal mics.

Recording the Drum track:

[drums]->[1 mic for bass drum, 1 mic for snare, 1 mic around toms, 1 mic for hi-hats, 1 mic around cymbals]->[mixer]->[PC]

Bass and guitar can be recorded via those multi-effects:

[bass]->[effects]->[PC]

[guitar]->[effects]->[PC]

Keyboard can plug direct to PC:

[keyboard]->[PC]

Last but not least,

[vocals]->[mic]->[mixer]->[PC]

When all tracks are recorded, you can tweak the tracks' parameters: left-right panning, echo, reverb, lite effects.

Done.

Hope this helps. Cheap & easy way to do home recording.

 

[blueprintstudios]

well do you have your own drumset/amps? whats your budget for recording ? (or you intend to not spend anything at all?) and do you currently have any recording gear at all? it would help if you post all details like what amp/effects pedals/drumset and your PC specs and any mics etc.

 

[heafy2214]

reply

I've got a steinberg cubase program for the recording program. At the same time, my effects which is a Zoom G2.1U can be connected to the PC via USB. As fot the drums, I'm using a beat track program. I do not have any drumsets at home.

Questions:
1. Can i use a drum program for recording? Will it sound betta?
2. Any other programs which has a drum track which i can set to my own taste n liking & can be used together with steinberg cubase?
3. How about mics? the one i'm using is a cheapo mic n theres a lot of buzz in the sound no matter how i set it
4. Can i do a track recording which excludes the vocals as I think its betta for me to record it at the studio? which means I'm intending to do a minus-1 track.

As for the budget i do not wish to spend much. Maybe less than 1k

Have u heard of the line 6 Tone port? Is it any good? I know that it can be used for vocals, guitars n bass. How about the drums.

Thanks btw.

 

[blueprintstudios]

to answer your questions :

1. depends what drum software's samples you use. you probably got to have a midi controller to operate drum sequencing softwares like toontrack ez drummer. and yes this means you gotta get midi equipment + learn how to use them. sounding better is based on your choice of samples/recording and mixing them.

2. not that I know of. this one someone else has gotta answer.

3. the buzz is most likely caused by your soundcard/cheapo mic as a combination. I'm assuming the soundcard you're using is those onboard or creative soundblaster types. you'll need to get a recording soundcard + a proper mic.

4. i'm assuming you're talking about you want to record drums/guitar/bass yourself then vocals you do it at a proper studio ? that should be possible unless the engineer is inflexible about it. then again it's a touchy topic in case you mixed it badly and claim "oh this one was recorded at THAT studio" bringing the name down.

Budget : yes less than 1K is possible. get a Line6 Toneport UX2 thats about lesser than $300 or 300 i think. you can record guitar/bass D.I well with that. even for the vocals, then you gotta fork out a mic for the vocals, if budget is an issue get something ADK that someone is selling on soft forum or something cheap like behringer. your call.

http://line6.com/toneport/

as for drums recording : lets say you get the UX2 , simply get another mixer lets say a 5 XLR channel mixer (around $200)..
drums > 5 drum microphones > 5 XLR channel mixer > stereo line input > UX2 > Laptop/computer

by the way, I got a question, your Zoom G2 1U has a USB for the purpose of what? recording your guitars??

 

[heafy2214]

reply

my G2.1u has a usb port which is meant to be connected to the pc for recording purposes. the program which is being used is actually a steinberg cubase.

for the drums, is there much diff compared to the ones in the studio? I mean using a drum track program instead of the real drums.

For the recording wat kinda mic is good? N oso wat kinda soundcard is good for music n recording purposes?

Isit really necessary to get a mixer? or I couldget a mixer from a program say cubase?

The line6 is indeed good. U r referring to a D.I. wat is its purposes?

For studio, heard that snakeweed is good but its pretty ex. How abt TNT?

 

[blueprintstudios]

so you're saying you can D.I (direct input) guitar/bass into your Zoom G21U and record? then you probably don't need the line6 toneport (for guitars/bass). you might as well go beatsmerchants record drums only $25 per hour then get the raw 8 tracks , bring home and record the rest yourself.
but vocals wise I'm thinking you don't have a mic preamp/proper sound card,so it's still more suitable for you to get UX2.

and yes, there's a difference in sequenced drums compared to the ones in studio.

>For the recording wat kinda mic is good?
depends what you're recording. depends on your preference.

>N oso wat kinda soundcard is good for music n recording purposes?
for your home recording purpose : toneport UX2.

>Isit really necessary to get a mixer? or I couldget a mixer from a program say cubase?
cubase IS a "mixer" on its own. except a digital one. unless you're talking about live mixer.

>The line6 is indeed good. U r referring to a D.I. wat is its purposes?
it's "gear box" software.

>For studio, heard that snakeweed is good but its pretty ex. How abt TNT?
www.bandpitstop.blogspot.com , link from there and listen for yourself hehe.

 

[Cheez]

I'll take on the drums question.

As blueprintstudios said, the quality depends on 2 factors - the quality of the samples themselves and the skills in sequencing the drums. Nowadays, you can get pretty good samples for drums. The difficult part is the sequencing. There are a few ways to go about it:

1. Keyboards as trigger.
2. Trigger pads as trigger
3. Electronic drums as trigger (need to know how to play drums, of course, and not cheap).
4. Mouse (clicking notes - not recommended)
5. Using pre-sequenced midi tracks others have made using electronic drums.
6. Loops.

5 and 6 will limit your creativity as they are fixed sequences although they come in many variations with fills etc. However, they will give the most realistic sounding sequences.

For loops, you have a whole lot of acidized wav files that you can buy/download (license free ones). Free ones are going to be very limited. The best loop based out there that gives you a lot of control and flexibility will be Spectrasonics Stylus RMX.

 

[teraslasch]

cheez, no.4 is my most common practice! .. i like to do everything with the mouse. for clean .. really clean sequencing.

 

[Cheez]

The problems with that are:

1. Notes are quantized and therefore lose the human touch.
2. Velocity differences are lost
3. Complex sequences are lost - some drummings (ghost notes) etc are so fast that you can't get it down on notations (even if it is hemidemisemiquavers). Only way to get it is to play the notes.

Too clean a sequence becomes too artificial.

 

[teraslasch]

I always edit the velocities , using scale velocities for certain parts etc. i think with careful sequencing, its very possible to attain very good results too ! (IMHO).. hehe... i'll have troubles with trying to play the drum kit, everything will be too messy for me to work! hahaa ..

 

[kithsa]

Drum sequencing wise, I use a combination of layered samples, loops, and the M-Audio trigger finger. Buying magazines can get you a whole load of samples (eg, Computer Music). Or you can just go for things like BFD, if you have the cash.

 

[Cheez]

Yes, playing the drum sequences takes practice, like any other skills. Left hand plays bass drum and snare, right hand toms, hi-hat and cymbals. The tricky part is to remember that the real drummer has only 2 hands and 2 feet. We play with 10 fingers. So we must make a conscious effort not to play extra notes (like 2 toms and 1 cymbal clash at the same time). To do that, I practice using only a few fingers so to prevent playing extra notes. The extra fingers come in only during fast playing (tom rolls etc).

 

[heafy2214]

reply

gee... thanks guys!

I guess wat i really need is a soundcard n a drums program.

Any drums programs which i can use to play according to the preference n speed i want? The one that i have which is a beat track program is quite good but the sound is not so great like real drums. Any advice on this?

BTW, any good mics for recommendation? which is good for recording n oso live performances.

Sorry coz i bit amateur abt tis n wanna learn more from u guys man

Thks in advance

 

[Cheez]

2 software come into mind:
1. Toontrack's dfh EZdrummer
2. Spectrasonics Stylus RMX

EZdrummer is now on special in Time+space. If you purchase EZdrummer, you get to choose one expansion pack free.

 

[kithsa]

I think for the ultimate flexibility, just get a heap of samples, drum vsts, and get something that can manipulate loops easily (eg, Ableton Live). Then go crazy!

As for mics, it depends on what you want to use the mic for. A "live performance" mic might not be your ideal situation in a recording environment and vice-versa.

 

[blueprintstudios]

it's not that i don't want to help from here on, but i think you're more interested in drum sequencing than drums recording because of the amount of microphone/preamps and a multitrack soundcard involved. (price tag's not pretty)

cheers hehe

 

[Cheez]

Sorry, back to drum sequencing. There are 2 kinds of samples. One is loop samples which is what Kithsa is talking about (that can be manipulated via software like Ableton). As I said before, this will limit your creativity as you are stuck with the loops and cannot change them around too much. Spectrasonics Stylus is one exception which lets you do more than the usual loop-based drums.

The other type of samples is multisamples. These are samples of individual hits from drums in various velocities. You will need to program them in note by note by playing. Or, if you have a midi sequence, you can use it to trigger these samples.

So you need to know what you want. My suggestion is still EZdrummer or Stylus. They both function as VST plug-ins. EZdrummer is multisample but comes with loads of drum sequences (I believe). Stylus is one of its kind - it is both multisamples and loop based and can manipulate both. You can hear both their demos on their website:

http://www.toontrack.com/ezdrummer.asp
http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/stylusrmx.html

If you consider Stylus, you may want to hold on for a while. Eric Persing and the Spectrasonics team did not turn up in this years NAMM show because they said they are locked up in a secret room somewhere developing the next generation of their RMX products (ie Stylus included). Whatever the next generation is, it's going to be groundbreaking, like all Eric's libraries.

 

[kithsa]

Mmmm... even with loop based drum samples, with a little amount of tweaking you can split them up and dig out the individual hits. Depends on how your loops are. Again, I find Ableton Live to be excellent in this aspect of clip tweaking.

If you really want to have control, might as well just have all the three suggestions standing by, loops, multisamples, and vsts. Then build layers of drums like no tomorrow. I like loops for inspirational purposes. Once inspired, I build my drum loops from multisamples, and with a little loop manipulation, it gets quite decent.

Hmmm... speaking of which, what do you think about BFD?

 

[Cheez]

There's a problem with getting so many VSTis and libraries - cost. And you only need 1 or 2 good sample set to get the work done.

As for Ableton, it's not the splicing and splitting I'm talking about. The issue I have is with loop based sequencing. No matter how you manipulate, you are stuck with the loop. If you split the loop into individual hits, then you are going back to the basic sequencing technique of using notes. Then it defeats the purpose because:

1. Splitting of notes from a loop is of poorer quality then multisamples - so you are better off with using multisamples
2. It goes back to sequencing tehcnique which has nothing to do with loops - which also means it's going back to multisamples and sequencing.

So no matter what, if you want to have more creativity in your drum track, you cannot run away from doing basic sequencing of the drums by playing it instead of using a fixed loop. Of course, you can mix both together, using loops and multisamples, but if they come from different libraries, the drum will sound different in different places. You want the drum kit to be the same in one song.

That's why in the end, it's better to do basic sequencing with multisamples. If one wants to do loop, then he will have to content with limited variations, unless he goes for Stylus. However, if the composer is doing more dance/electronic music and therefore more focused on loops, then Ableton is fine. There are little drum variations in these genres anyway. There's always a place for this kind of music. However, if you want to write for pop or jazz or other genres, you want more variations rather than a robot playing a drum, playing the same rhythm over and over again.

BFD is just another multisample library out of the whole lot out there. No point getting so many drum kit libraries - they are more or less the same in sound. And the sound can always be processed using effects plug-ins. If somebody want the best of both drum loops and multisamples worlds, then I would strongly recommend Spectrasonics Stylus RMX.