Free gigs anyone? It's time to make a stand, musicians!

[bf0502tr]

=JOSH83

fully agree with u on this one dood!! after awhile u gotta stop playing for free, provided u know ur fans are actually liking ur music and not just ur faces. i believe even with a pathetic population size, we do have pretty talented people, as shown in the soft's loudest band contest. some bands have the technical prowess, some have the presence, some have crowd-pleasing stuff. we've got it all i think, sporeans just gotta change their mindset that local is shit and ang moh is god. if u think playng jazz and top 40s hits is difficult to survive, then what if u play hard rock to metal? no need eat alr??

 

[kongwee]

With all the talking, nothing we could do right?

 

[AgingYouth]

Please help us out! Buy the latest B-Quartet album 'conformity has replaced consciousness' from the following shops: Gramophone, Roxy Records, Books Actually, Esplanade Shop and Getupmerch.com! We need to sell more to roll for our next album. Your musician friends have been raving about it. No, seriously. That's what I hear.

Please tell your friends about Inch Chua's latest free-for-download album 'Wallflower' on her website: http://www.inchchua.com. We've hit more than 5k+ downloads but we can always do more!

Lunarin's album 'Duae' is coming out next week. If you like heavy, intricate music, please spread the word and get them hooked on it!

There are more than 17,000 registered members on this forum. Sure can hor?

Kthxbai!

 

[JOSH83]

With all the talking, nothing we could do right?

ITs not that nothing can be done dude. I think wat the TS wants to bring across is for all musicians to have a common understanding that we shld stop playing for free as this will create an impression that all local musicians esp those fresh and starting out bands will be more than willing to play for free and to have exposure.

I mean nothing wrong with that, but then again, we muz stop the current mindset of the organisers that we local musicians are ppl who are hard out for gigs and will go to all cos to play(selling tix is an example). Nothing wrong with playing on a stage and enjoying the atmosphere but then again, but its how u wan to market ur band. I agree there are great talents out there and i've seen some really young bands that are really great at their music but if u seem to eager to want to hit the stage, u'll be exploited by the organisers.

Like wat i mentioned, early stages u can play for free, but when u feel proficient enough, nothing wrong with negotiating for pay. I mean, it feels even better to get paid for playing music. And it does help in the long run.

Wat TS wants is us uniting against the organisers. For example, next time an organiser wants to organise a gig, if all of us request for some form of remuneration, then he/she will have no choice but to offer us. But if 1 of us is willing to play for free, then in another sense, its like "spoiling the market"

But what i would like to ask TS is how much do u think starting bands can ask for? Since they have no prior experience. Those in the scene know the market price, but the younger ones don't know. So it'll be gd if u can give us some suggestion.

Thanks.

Let's unite tgt. Music unites, not divides.

Cheers! Peace

 

[jbarks]

but agreed. we need a musician's union. in fact, every sector if u examine carefully, needs a proper worker's union to agree on minimum pay.

There are no real, powerful unions in Singapore, and there is no minimum wage. Think about it.

The wage is what the market will bear, and there will always be someone willing to pay for free.

 

[glblues]

There are no real, powerful unions in Singapore, and there is no minimum wage. Think about it.

The wage is what the market will bear, and there will always be someone willing to pay for free.

yes i know. thats why we need proper unions

 

[Composer of Requiems]

Even if there is a union, if bands agree to play for free, what can the union do about it?

There's a lot of other issues that I see with all this, but I don't want to get flamed here. The way I see it, this is a musician's forum, not an organizer's forum, so there's going to be a lot of flaming of organizers by people who don't really understand some of the constraints on the organizer's side. It's not that organizers are blameless, but I feel the problem lies on both sides.

 

[kongwee]

So in the end, nothing we could do.

 

[ridethetiger]

Aiyah,in singapore forget it la. Either we pay to perform or play for free lor. What can be done? already some friends told me downloading songs' quality is better than buying original CDs. So of course there r people who rather enjoy life with family members than to come and see musicians perform on stage. forget it la. Let it be like this forever.
oh on a side note,selling tixs to perform is very good wat. We can learn the art of selling and be a good salesman anytime we decided to hang up the guitar and sell away the effects. It's Good to pay to perform yes,much better than play for free.

 

[Gr3y]

This is a nice topic.

I used to have a band and we did a seriously big number of free gigs. Our mentality back then was so long as we get gigs, we get our chance to expose and win some supporters. Our free gigs ranged from really small time community centre gigs to as big as a certain music award presentation held in a prestige local venue with many foreign artist coming to collect their piece of cake. Never did we tag ourselves with a price tag. Like the dooms day scenario mentioned, how could you be stubborn and tag yourself with a price tag when you are given a chance to be involved in a music award presentation that was catered for at least 8-10k audience?

To elaborate further on that music award presentation, i myself thought i've made it somewhere. Now when i think back, it's kinda like a big joke on me. There are more details which i am not convenient to disclose but in short, i felt i brought my band into a big trap. The Rockstar Dreamer's trap.

Money may not be the only factor but is definitely one of the factor that eventually causes that band to end. It's a pity. It's worse when i think about the money we lost due to rehearsals, transport and time wasted etc. But then again, making music for a living is basically a form of entrepreneurship. Like in all business, you've gotta do your maths properly and be prepared with the gamble you're gonna take.

 

[gummybear]

This is seriously a good topic. And I enjoyed reading everyone's input. I'm with a band now, but I've been performing for quite some time now as a solo. Usually when we start out, it's ok to go for free gigs, especially when you know yourself how many people out there are better than you. For exposure, for the experience. But as you slowly improve (which is a given, if much practice is put into it), it's time to move on and ask for payment. There's no need to wait till you achieve 'fame' becoz seriously speaking, how many ppl can actually achieve that? How many ppl know abt these local bands? Prob other than fellow musicians who pay attention to the latest ongoings on the local music scene and friends, the general public is oblivious to all these. So there's no fame to talk abt, so you gotta try to achieve some other stuff so that you know your efforts been recognized. Abt passion, everyone's got passion, but after some time of spending so much on this and that and there's nothing that comes out from it, the passion will gradually wear out.

 

[Zahahaha]

just my own opinion, singapore is a "fine" country. almost everything is not free.
basically rental is EX.
demand for new albums from artist is low.
population is not big enough for the income for artist. ( what i meant is sometimes artist depend on the local fans for income. isit?)
to me, money talks. : with money, record label can produce more shows in and out of singapore. a grand one, inviting big fish artist to play along with. sponsor album for artist and make CDs for them. spend on advertisement. therefore, i believe revenue will come naturally. BUT!!!!!!!! with one condition, talent which plays the most important part in a successful artist.

about the payED to play, i believe gigs should be like that. to be appreciated for showing their talents. musicians must be strict in these ok.
me, im in a band. I play gigs and jams as a hobby. FOR FUN! so i dont actually expect payments unless a big event or being invited for the opening for a famous band.

well, things happen.and like i have said just now, this is just an opinion. =)

 

[guitarfreaks]

Opinion

I don't know what to comment on..but the amount of money i've ever received is $200. No joke..and the least is $100.. but now.. now... before we start complaining about the amount of money that bands should be paid for gigs, i think there's reason why some organisers offer bands to play for free...im not one- sided but this is the truth. okay here's an example...
1. some bands, mostly which just started out....
they are very eager to perform in front of people without even asking themselves..do they have what it takes?? are they ready ? are they tight?? do they have anything diff that they could show to the other band that they deserve to be playing in front of an audience comprising of a different age,race and whatsoever??or are they just playing covers trying to be a wannabe.. IF you guys are not yet READY...pls pls pls..don't ever sign up to play for an events that held by big organisers or should I say an organiser that doesnt really know anything about music. you know organiser such as the ones you saw at causeway point for example..they set up a stage with a red carpet and a red chair..and they say that we are gonna invite our very own local band or singer to perfom later......and when they start to play...they sounded really awful....and the organiser didnt do any backgroundcheck of the bands before calling them up..and that's the cause..the organiser dunno what standard are you..so theres no reason for them to pay you a single cent but to use you just to make their job much easier as the event organiser...Please..if you're an organiser.pls pls pls do a background check.. dun call bands anyhow.. ask for their myspace, video with gd quality performance or wadsoeve.. and do listen to recording, tightness and quality of the bands.. Because nowadays we have lots of foreigner coming over to Singapore, and causeway point is one of the place where people usually happen to go on weekends. and if you put up an amatuer band which produce toilet bowl, they are going to look down on us..And let say happen to be someone ovesrseas form a major music industry drop by singapore and saw thier performance...imagine what he's gonna say?? so what if he's gonna say something bad on the spot some local passerby overheard and start to make a scene..you wanna blame that foreign guy??no is suppose to be the answer....So in other words bands should convince the organiser that they have the standards and they deserve to be paid..no to play for free and destry the music scene...even if they play for free and they perform very well..organiser should should start to feel ashamed for not being able to pay the talented bands..

Now, moving on to another....
2. I dun understand...
Of all the many new talented bands ....new sounds, style..organiser from anywhere lahh...they keep on calling the same old band like GSE, AVA, PS..etc....why ??
can i ask why ??? some other talented bands example, baybeats 08 and 09 list, the breakthrough band or the final 8 new local...i seldom see them being called up, back up to play at venue like the esplanade, powerhouse, ignite fest(All i see was trella and caracal luckily) so where and why weren't they being called up ??i want to know...And i won't tell you which gig ive been to but for those who read this and notice that this words are kind of familiar, by the way this came from one of our respected music/sound/recording engineer.." I was surprised to see that the new upcoming bands nowadays have took a step forward than the bands he use to see few years back..(referring to the old timeers)You guys brings in a fresh new sound and you guys were so young "...finally theres someone in singapore who was a somebody in the music scene, declare it infront of all those who came for the show at scape lab... so ya..just wanna say give us an opportunity to move forward ..you guys had your time..it's time for ours and organiserss pls pls pls move on...move on...move on...dun stick to the old pls move on...other words update yourself, music genre chg just like technology..

3. Nowadays no gig...
yeah idk why... the music scene was left like a dead town...idk why...I hope the new Lcube studio was not like the last time where it was on the 2nd floor and on the first floor was a bar...and we cant' mosh or enjoy coz the bar owner afraid it might collapse...-.-....and maybe with some venue which is open to held gigs..and owners of place....please dun try to overcharge...you wanna earn..we also want to enjoy...you charge okay...ppl go gig,every weekend gt gig you earn money..no problemm...every weekened gt ppl wanna come do gig..

EVERYONE MUST THINK LAHH....don't only depend on one person...

PS: MUSIC CHG JUST LIKE TECHNOLOGY, IF YOU STICK TO ONE,
IT WOULD BE THE DOWNFALL OF US ALL

 

[LaMusiqueEstAmour]

You need to be handsome/pretty. That's all.

 

[snuffleupagus]

perhaps we should all just be glad to be given the opportunity to perform, isnt that what its all about in the first place?

 

[kongwee]

Those who are earning through gig, see no point to do so as the organiser is capable to pay.

 

[ashleyj722]

Nice one Chris. You've just helped Singapore take a step backwards in its music scene. You see its all to do with supply and demand. There are alot of bands in Singapore and there are very few gig venues. Therefore there are always going to be bands that play for free due to the high supply of them and the high demand for venues. Lets look at it from the gig organizers point of view. I agree with you that at events such as Singfest the organizers should be paying the bands since they make alot of profit from extortionate ticket pricing. I don't think organizers of smaller gig venues should be paying bands because these organizers are already out of pocket from venue hire and licences. Plus the type of person who goes to a typical local gig are usually students and they don't like spending money on alcohol. Unfortunately if beer sales help gigs. That's how it works in the US and in the UK. If Singapore wants to develop its music scene it must start with its infrastructure. i.e get rid of MDA entertainment licences. Encourage more bars to allow live original music and if you are a student spend more on beer.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

we have talked a lot, this just happened, what happen to us.

http://inchchua.tumblr.com/tagged/local_music_scene

 

[kongwee]

That's how it works in the US and in the UK. If Singapore wants to develop its music scene it must start with its infrastructure. i.e get rid of MDA entertainment licences. Encourage more bars to allow live original music and if you are a student spend more on beer.

We should ask Temasek Holding to open Temsek Entertainment or GIC Entertainment,yah.

 

[backagain]

Free gig

I think whether the gig is paid or not it's between the organizer and the musicians. Those with very strong passion in music will like to perform for free and get some exposure. For the organizer, it is up to them to decide if they want to pay peanuts to get monkeys. As for the musicians, you have to determine your value in the market. Some of the good groups in Singapore deserve to be paid well because they can pull in hugh crowd. Some of the band which I have seen do not worth a cent because they are a jam band.( A jam band is a band which only comes together to practise once before the gig).