Drumming In HDB how to deal with "noise"

[RudimentalDrummer]

Exactly James (and I do agree) that's why it will be even much more diversity here in handling what contribute to "Disturbance" and thus the Law - before 10.30pm....knowing that there will be many differences among the Residents in that particular area most of the time - so Handling these complains become tougher.

Subject on "Noise & Disturbance after Office-Hours (5pm)" is directly under the jurisdiction of the Police and not HDB.

PS: - Yes not only HDB but rules according to the Majority is correct (as in this statement)....I've check. So someone complain to the police even before 10.30pm (they bo-chap), but if a few people complain (they will come and tell us - please lower the volume) but - they will not stop us from playing as we have a right here - This is verify by the Police.(not myself)

 

[mel80]

S'poreans love to complain. So much that it even seems to be some kind of hobby! lol.

A bit of noise? Complain.
Water dripping from upstairs? Complain.
Dog barking? Complain.
Plants at the corridor? Complain.

It never ends. Different people have different thresholds for different things. What is more important is to communicate and come to a common understanding. One way, as Eric has mentioned, is to attend the meet the residents sessions to voice things out in a peaceful manner.

Personally, I am in between 2 neighbours. On one side, the neighbour has a golden retriever that barks loudly at everything and anything at anytime of the day/night. They have received complaints and even angry letters from residents. But my family has established a friendly relationship with them. We never complained. We just communicated with them and they do know of that problem. So they do what they can to contain their dog.

On the other side, I have a neighbour who invites friends over for singalong and stuff on weekends. Their volume can get a little loud at times, but it never bothered me. Sometimes my bandmates come over my place to jam (I use e-drums at home), our noise level also a bit loud. I didn't dare risk getting an acoustic drumkit as I live in a very quiet neighbourhood. Give and take lah. I don't complain them to the authorities, so they don't do it to me too loh.

At the end of the day, friendly relationships and communication can go a long way. Everyone's happier that way, isn't it?

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

You know people. My Neighbour has a Cat (it belongs to the young daughter of a Malay Family)..

The Cat comes in to my home and my maid and me wify will scream and chase the cat out. Of course it’s my home (and I would want to open the door instead of closing it – so we can have more fresh air coming in)……I went to tell the owners please do not allow your cat to come in to my home (you must teach them), but the cat still comes in after many many times me speaking to them.

So I call my friend (this HDB Officer) and she told me – Yes I can do something “I will ask them to dispose the cat”……I pull-back this complain because I do not want the little girl to lose her favourite Pet-cat.

Am I not a good neighbour, and I live with it. In a sense I did give and take. Likewise I really love drumming and it’s a healthy hobby and I compromise by only playing 3 times a week (at most 1 ½ duration at most) – Is this reasonable on my end, or reasonableness here means – Totally Not Able To Drum Within My Own Home?.

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

I do not dare to accuse any of my neighbour here on who is the one that complain. But there is this one case.

A neighbour in my block scoulded my poor maid (who water my Orchids every morning at 7am in the morning). He shouted at my Maid oneday“Do not water the plants at 7am, water it at 10am because the water though only a few little droplets had falls onto him and he goes to work at 7pm”.

Initially my maid did not brought this up to me, but on the second day after this “He was standing below my Balcony waiting to see if my Maid water my plants, and once she water the plants – he shouted – I told you not to water the plant at 7am, don’t you understand me”………………

So my maid was so very afraid, and he told me ”Can I water the plant at 10am, I said no because the sun will be very hot by then and the water droplets will act as a Magnifying glass creating burn marks on my Precious valuable orchids which I spend 10 of thousands on it” - - but she said “The neighbour scoulded me for watering at 7am in the morning, and he is always there waiting to see if I water at that time”….OMG …This to me is “An Act Of Intimidation” which means “Threatening - a Criminal Offence be it causing Physical Harm or a Threat By Words”.

The next morning I called the police and we waited for him…True enough he turns up, and my maid pointed towards him “This is the man”….The police question him, if what my maid told me were indeed true and he said “Yes”, and he said “Why does she have to water at 7am,, why not 10am” – what an absurd question of telling my maid what to do or what not to do when I am the one paying her Salary….The police told him off saying “Do not ever do this again, it’s their right and what you are doing is indeed an act of intimidation”…..He got very angry with me….But look, how could he do that.

My maid told me – it is this guy again lar, always looking at our home recently again (wonder if he is the one launching the complain which I hope not) – but bro/sis – If its really him, then in this manner, I can be Sabotage in any way just by someone who wishes to get back at me, if it was true (anyway there was only one-person complaining according to HDB) thus they have to stop me…

PS: Bro mel really must be very experience in all this...The plant things also - -Hahahaha I told my neighbour children please dont plug my flowers and the next day she launch a complain - on my plants having too many....OMG...you see lah..They plug my plants (I cannot tell then please dont plug my flowers - cause If I tell them they are unhappy and will launch a complain on any fault they can find).....what a world.

 

[Blofeld]

As I said, you have my sympathies as a fellow drummer...but to be honest, I feel you are pissing in the wind.

It's no use trying to litigate the issue and bring up all sorts of analogies. Whether it's cats, dripping water or Golden retrievers..living in close quarters with other people means a lot of give and take. Often it is not fair as some people take more that they are ever prepared to give. Yes, one can call the cops...talk to the residents' committee...call one's MP and even write to the minister...But in the end it's really an issue between neighbours. Things can easily escalate out of hand if direct communications with your neighbours break down...the ongoing Everitt Rd saga is a prime example.

The most sensible way out is to get the noiseless drum kit by pacific..or invest in a e-drum kit. I know it's not the same but at least you get to practise without the worries. then you can turn around and give your neighbours hell about the cats, water or whatever..without having to worry about repercussions !!

Ha ha ha !!

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Wah my bro Frank (...can laugh some more - ha ha ha here..how can lah ) ... Tells me to play a noiseless drum kit by pacific..or invest in a e-drum kit while he himself sit back relax and enjoy playing his Acoustic kit .....That's Wicked Of You My Bro Frank...... hahahaha !.

Pitying me yet laughing at my misery ...Oh Frank !

 

[drumsolo86]

Hello eric, I see you're in quite a bit of trouble yourself. I drum in a HDB flat too with an acoustic set, but mainly I have resorted to using rods and brushes (for jazz) at home to get around the problem. They are much lighter than regular sticks, but do not offer the same kind of rebound as sticks do. Would this be a better solution?

It's something that I've been playing after I myself cant stand how loud the sticks can get in my home. A 10" Splash hit hard sounds like a 18" full crash itself haha..

 

[plslayer]

My sympathies man. I stay in an apartment, then I think my drumming is quite loud la. Then one day overheard my neighbour downstairs like complaining on the phone (eavesdropping is bad I know) then from the sound of it sounded like the landlord also said that as long as I don't play past don't know what time its legal. I stop by 9pm. The neighbour downstairs plays keyboard, also quite loud la, sometimes even play past 11pm and early in the morning like 6am. But oh well, they let me drum so I also don't complain lor.

Anyway, all the best with your problem man. Hope you can still play without going through much trouble

 

[suns]

Wow so many deprived of drumming here. The main cause for complain is mainly the window being not air-tight and too thin.

Solution : built a secondary window inside with good seal and a big air gap.And make sure the glass is laminated and the thicker the better.

Talk to your neighbor after this, bring your ears to the noise sound( in this case your drum and have a buddy do the damage on your drum) while you are in their house. It would probably be your floor, ceiling, wall or main door/balcony door.

To isolate the problem area does not cost 20K, you just need to identify where your source of problem are from your neighbor point of view.:mrgreen:

 

[Blofeld]

heck..I am not laughing at your rather sad predicament but at the futility of your arguments with the HDB..that faceless heartless machine that governs how you live in peace and harmony with thousands of others (presumably non-drummers) in your neighbourhood.

When things look bleak and intransigent, have a good laugh over it. Better than crying or raising your BP, no?

And my suggestion of a quiet practice set or an e-drum setup is already adopted by many drummers I know who need to practice in am environment that does not tolerate too much noise.

You cannot have the real thing for practice all the time so have to adapt lah. Martial arts practitioners use sandbags or wooden poles. Kendo players use wooden swords. So why can't you use noiseless substitutes?

Only the bounce aspect of the non-acoustic drum is affected but you can still hone your coordination, independence, and other techniques. And didn't someone once said..the best practice is playing with other musos anyway? So, jam more....FYI there are 3 jam sessions a week at the Tanglin CC..one each for Pop, Blues nd Jazz. No excuse for lack of playing opportunities.

But don't get to uptight about your situation with the HDB. You are not the first and won't be the last. Why fret yourself over it so much?

 

[Blofeld]

=suns



Windows are only part of the problem bro.

The main problem is the thin walls and floors used in the constructiou of HDB flats. Noise, esp the lower frequencies pass easily thru the thin brick and concrete barriers...and there is no cheap way of insulating this from your immediate neighbours around you.

The HDB units are not designed to prevent noise transmission of more than around 45-60 dB (the level of a normal household) Drums, even played not too loud, generate noise levels of between 80-95 dB. I am familiar with these figures in my design of music studios for the CCs, the requirements of which are very similar to those of HDB dwellings.

It is quite exhorbitant, if not futile to noise-insulate your HDB room to meet the requirements of the law..let alone your immediate neighbours.

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Frank: - I do Jam Twice a week – 3 hours each time (with my Jazz and Rock Band)….Jamming is Jamming (which is very good), but we drummers also need some time to do our Routine Practices…right?.

Anyway I call my Lawyer (spoke to him), he told me utterly nonsence that One cannot keep a DrumSet at Home (even HDB) , it’s not explosive what?. An a drum is a Percussion Instrument which means it’s also a Musical Instruments.

And “Noise & Disturbance” can be argue under 2 Categories of the Law. (which I don’t wish to stipulate it out here in details)…..

Anyway his advice to me is similar to what Tama told me – Talk to my MP and bring this up during the “Meet The People Session” for now.

Yes, I was a little upset when they came to see me, now I'm ok liao - thks bro ...

Drumsolo: Thks for the advice - It was great and yes I can use Rods and Brushes also mah to play.

Bro suns: - I too must close my door nowadays I think. Honestly I open my door when I drum and my drums is at the Living room - (so that I get better Fresh Air and the sound will travel out so it does not hurt my ears as much as when I closed it where sound cant travel out...hahahaha)....what to do close the door, put on my ear plugs lol now.

Tama Goh told me something really true: - He says "Eric, ah.hh maybe it's time, that you have to force yourself to play softly, cause it's difficult, so you are now force to learn to Control which is very good for your own development" - Take this as a Blessing in Disguise - but of course you are allowed to drum and have the Kit at home....True right also in a way.

 

[Blofeld]

=RudimentalDrummer



Hey...to keep a drumset (2 or more if you please) is never the issue here...and it's plainly obvious you are getting uptight over this non-issue.

It's the noise you generate while practising..esp with your doors open and all (you said it not me). Much has already been said here and I have no wish to repeat it.

But what Tama said is absolutely right...and didn't I also tell you this before...that to be able to play softly at all tempos is a test of your control. Having watched you play, I suspect control is an area you you work harder at. This applies to Rock as well as jazz, bro...no need to whack like hell to get your sound. It's how you hit the drums , not how hard you hit them.

Anyway I do hope you reach some lasting acccomodation with your aggrieved neighbours. They(neighbours) are your problem, not the HDB nor police. The latter are only doing their jobs lah.

Keep smiling !!

 

[KDY]

They(neighbours) are your problem, not the HDB nor police. The latter are only doing their jobs lah.

So lets put the neighbours between 2 laminated glass windows.. The thicker the better

 

[xXIanxcorEXx]

Yep i agree with u Packerdee although i'm a guitarist. yep you are so true, like why shud we give up doing what we love for some petty neighbours who don't know the law..

i'm quite lucky having 2 live in my HDB block .. itz a music hub here..
like my neighbours upstairs n downstairs play piano, drums, guitar, bass guitar, some even trombone..

but yea.. i agree with you .. letz make a STAND :!

 

[lester_music]

3 Jam sessions...for pop,blues and jazz? all on Sun?

I thought only Jazz at Tanglin CC..hehe

 

[Blofeld]

3 Jam sessions...for pop,blues and jazz? all on Sun?

I thought only Jazz at Tanglin CC..hehe

Jazz and Pop on Sundays, and hard core blues on Sat afternoons.

Come play with some serious musos...no where else got this opportunity on a regular basis.

 

[Blofeld]

=xXIanxcorEXx



MAKE A STAND !!?? You sound like some opposition politician.

This is Singapore, pal..the greater good always prevail over minority interests.

If I was a homeowner (never mind if HDB or whatever), I spent a fortune to buy a home where I can live undisturbed and in peace.

Then next door some musician wannabe (must be wannabe because the pros seldom practise at home) decides he wants to be another Jojo Mayer or Steve Gadd...and my afternoon is disrupted by loud cacophony. Mind you, if it was nice loud music it may not be so bad...but a drum practice ? Hey do you guys ever record yourselves while practising and see how great you sound?

C,mon, lets face it...if it was Jojo next door..or Lee Ritenour...or Regina Carter (jazz violin) ..heck I'd have little reason to complain.

But otherwise..puhlease...go rent a studio or get yourself some noiseless drum kit. We, the drum-phobic neighbours just do not appreciate your contribution to noise pollution..whatever the time.

Note: The foregoing comments do not reflect my personal views on the subject but what I think the other aggrieved party may be thinking. Understanding the other side may be the first step to conflict resolution.

 

[lester_music]

what i do is practise on the silent pads.....after getting it right..then go to acoustic and try it out...

rather than trying to get a groove right on the acoustic, cause it can sound pretty irritating

 

[blueman]

hi there,

i stay in private apartment but my neighbour complain even when i practice on dtxpress electronic kit.

i've past the stage of arguing or fighting with neighbour.

when i'm at home, i use practice pad. i guess it works for me cause i teach and play almost 7 days a week. so need for practice at home not as crucial.




maybe u can try to practice softly, and practice more of the coordination aspect.

then set aside maybe 2 days a week, go down studio and just BLAST! :mrgreen:




back then, when i was still learning, i also didn't have a drumset ( i only got a electronic drumset when i am 25 years old)

the mental aspect is very important.

if you're focused it doesn't matter as much what you're practicing on, be it practice pad or real drumset.




i personally believe in this story: there are two groups of basketball players - one group practiced shooting for 2 hours, and the other group practiced shooting for one hour, but sat down and visualise shooting the ball in for the other hour. the 2nd group apparently shot better than the first group.

on the same subject, isiah thomas once said he and jordan excelled because they had a strong mental approach to the game.



i apply the same mental approach to my drumming.

i realised over time that i have subconciously developing muscle twitches when i listen to songs to get the 'feel' and timing.

when i feel like it, i will move more. this doesn't apply to just the 4 limbs, although many of the motions are from there.

for example, i can sit on the spot in the office, or anywhere, and practice ostinatos on my feet, simply by twitching my feet using the muscles connected to my toes.

it doesn't even make a sound, but i am getting exercise out of my neurons, and thus muscle memory.


one thing i guess, this requires a lot of DISCIPLINE! which is what drumming is a large part of anyway.


i guess i rambled very long, but u get the idea! FOCUS and never give up, cos u can take away all the gear out of the drummer, but you can never take the drummer out of the drummer \m/

that said, do ur best to get to practice at home of course!


cheers

Sorry for the pure randomness.... Just got to read this... but what plainsman said is how I have been for the pass 6 - 7years. and it does work. I usually do mental training and muscle twitching while listening, on the way to work and back, in the office, at a meal, waiting for frens... anywhere....

I even mastered some complicated shuffles or solos through muscle twitching, and when i got to the real drumset during jamming, im already 3/4 ready. ahaha.