Discriminatory Listening

[pf]

A jazz musician said this:

"Be discriminate in your listening. Remember, you're training your mind. Choose music like you would your friends."

Any thoughts on this?

edit: Btw, pls do me a favor and read post #11 before getting all worked up about the choice of the word "discriminate" by the jazz musician. Thanks!

 

[superprog]

ahahah obviously i'm not on that (righteous) path..... i have waaaay too many friends!!! esp evile satanic black-clad, bullet-belt wearing ones ahahaha

 

[K2desoog]

A Rock n Roller said this:
Jazz is six people in a band playing in different keys all at the same time.

... or something like that.

 

[visa]

I don't intentionally discriminate or choose my friends- but the good people just naturally get closer over time.

same for good music. i find myself drawn to it more than the rest. but i don't discriminate before i listen, that's plain cocky and elitist

 

[Cavett]

A Rock n Roller said this:
Jazz is six people in a band playing in different keys all at the same time.

... or something like that.

So Meshuggah is a jazz band then?? :mrgreen:

 

[pf]

Nobody has any comments on listening to music as a form of training the mind?

 

[widdly]

I agree with that pf. And not just in regards to Jazz. And more of a problem if you have a huge collection of MP3's.

Now we have "Download Burnout" and "Listener Apathy".

Here's an interesting article...

http://alchemi.co.uk/archives/mus/active_and_pass.html

"The accessibility of music has meant that it is taken for granted and does not require a deep emotional commitment once associated with music appreciation… In the 19th century, music was seen as a highly valued treasure with fundamental and near-mystical powers of human communication. The pace of technological change has accelerated further over the last 20 years or so and these fundamental changes in the nature of musical experience and value have arguably become even more pronounced."

 

[dir]

I think it's alright to discriminate, as long as you're giving everything a fair chance. Like I won't discriminate a certain artist until I have listened to an album properly and can make a decision for myself on what the music means to me.

Music at the most basic level is pretty much a personal thing (at least for me), so in that sense I take every album review with many a pinch of salt and try to be as objective as possible when describing some band or album to other people. What you like shouldn't dictate what you should listen to.

If you stay in your comfort zone all the time, you'll never find anything new of consequence and will never challenge your musical boundaries. I try to listen to new music with the aim to rediscover and expand my appreciation of music, no matter how pretentious that sounds.

 

[Cavett]

At the end of the day, your ears and brain will naturally tell you what you like and what you don't like. As much open-minded and "training" you want to be, there r too many factors, eg. cultural background, friends, family, etc... which constitutes and shape what your preferences in music will be.

Music is more like Beauty than like choosing friends.. Cause to choose friends the other party still have to accept you. Thus Music lies in the eye of the beholder or should I say the ears for this case...

 

[MackSonne]

You sure the jazz guy's not talking about differentiating trashy music and good music?

 

[pf]

Good point MackSonne!

Hmmm...I think the word "discriminate" causes people to think of what the jazz musician said as negative.

There are a few questions here which I hope can steer the discussion instead of jumping straight into whether we should "discriminate" music.

-How come musicians need to be trained in the mind?
-Aren't we supposed to be trained in the fingers/hands/vocals/breathe to apply the techniques of playing our instrument of choice?
-How come that jazz musician thought of listening as training the mind?
-How does listening train the mind?
-How will a musician improve in playing after listening assuming that training the mind helps in training to play?

I think once we thought about that, then we can decide if there is a need to discriminate music for listening.

 

[ShredCow]

Music is deeper than... just noises. It evokes certain emotions, certain feelings, certain reactions. It can be spiritualised. It is intense. Whether you like it not you - we all react to music.

Much like how friends would influence you.

Let's say... if you wanted to explore the widdily diddily of technical modern electric guitar but all you listened to was Grunge or Alternative or Post Rock or Punk Rock or... you get the idea. Where's your inspiration, examples, motivation to play/improve/indulge/copy what you wanted to explore?

So likewise, if you wanted to quit smoking, but you carry on hanging out with all the friends who smoke... its like rightttttttt...


When you're surrounded by music - you're influenced by it. Either you end up scowling and throwing tantrums, insisting to your boss that Mandopop is commericalised crap and REAL true metal is the way to go... or you find yourself humming along, grooving along, feet tapping.. some stuff starts to find its way into your own compositions, etc etc. Musicians need music because it feeds us the ideas, the vibes, the moods to go about our music making.

And frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with being discriminate about the music, or the friends, you listen to. After all, discernment (the skill of being discriminate) is a very very valuable skill.

 

[ikilledkenny!]

i wouldnt discrimate on any genre ever, i hate it when people dislike genre's that are not brutal enough or whatever.. if u hate a genre, then dont listen to it.. personally, i would respect any musician that puts effort in making his or her originals. I mean, if u put alot of hard work in your songs, u wouldnt want people saying ur music sucks right?

 

[Siouxsie Sioux]

listening to music is that hard?

i thought listening to music is simply cos u like it.
eg. if i like a song, it means i like it. doesnt matter which artist made it.

and if my fav artist made a shitty song (to me), then its shitty. simple as 123 hehehehe

simple-minded lah. gee i must sound like a child.

 

[pianomankris]

I don't understand this 'remedy' musical listening i.e. listen to certain things and you will have 'a better mind' than someone who listens to everything.

Is this jazz guy for real?!



We can't differentiate 'trashy' or 'good' music - my trashy could be your good. It's all relative.

Are the songs you listened to when you were 5 years old 'trashy'? No - it is only your perception of them that has changed. The music is the same. This is a very important point. What has changed is how the music is experienced.



The worst thing to do is to force yourself to listen to something because some critics have said that this is the 'good stuff'.

It is best just to let your tastes develop naturally e.g. you may listen to rock music, and enjoy the quietness of certain breakdown sections. This could lead to listening to other music with large dynamic contrasts, which, in turn, would expose your ear to different sounds, which could, in turn, lead you down a new path.

This is how things go. I don't like this idea of trying to force something onto a path that one guy says is the 'right path'.

And if this was the case, who decides what we 'should' listen to?

This is musical communism, I tell you!!!




Plus - listening to complex stuff doesn't make anyone any more informed. I have friends who can write full orchestral scores without even being at an instrument, and some of them spend their days listening to Dylan.

People who do this for a living have gotten through the stage of trying to impress by listening to 'the right stuff' and sounding informed. When they do this for a living, they go back to enjoying it for the sake of enjoying it.


Even if all music ever written is available for our consumption, we still have to choose which music to listen to, rather than being afraid to commit to anything. This isn't 'discrimination', but rather, having tastes.


Also - nice to hear someone talking about Meshuggah! I'm going to hear them in September - they are playing here in Scotland then (check out their new album, ObZen - it kicks ass ).

Does this make me not a 'true' classical musician (as I am listening to something different)?!!


See my point?

 

[ShredCow]

pianomankris, I dunno (well, actually I know but its a nice figure of speech no?) but I find your points fall along what the jazz guy meant.

After all - its just a one liner. I don't see anything detrimental but I can still see everything detrimental about what he said. Its up to you.



But about your line on...

"Plus - listening to complex stuff doesn't make anyone any more informed. I have friends who can write full orchestral scores without even being at an instrument, and some of them spend their days listening to Dylan."

I wonder how your friends got to the level of being able to write "full orchestral scores" in the first place. Hmmm...

 

[dir]

what the hell does training the mind means? training for...? having a refined taste perhaps? to be able to pick out the good parts and see the shortcomings of a musical piece? but shouldn't we be enjoying music as a whole and not overanalyse everything merely for the sake of it? does discriminating music make it more enjoyable for the listener, or does it simply lessen the overall experience for you? Do you listen to music to enjoy and partake in the experience of it or to learn and recreate the magic of such a performance? where am I going with all this???

I would like to discriminate and say this jazz musician is full of himself!

 

[widdly]

The guy has a point though. If all you listened to was Kenny G, when you pick up a sax you are going to have a hard time phrasing like Coltrane. Learning to play inevitably involves a degree of copying and then (hopefully) extending and expanding. So you got to be listening to something decent along the way to end up a decent player.

 

[pf]

Bravo, widdly! And I agree with Shredcow as well.

I think that's the point the jazz musician is trying to get at. Coz being a jazz musician, inevitably he would be inclined towards improvisation.

As Shredcow and widdly said, the music influences the listener. If one does not listen to decent music as what you said, then surely one cannot play as the great musicians out there.

What he said about the mind training with listening part is what really intrigues me.

And I don't think he meant to discriminate against genre. The point where he comes from is about learning.

 

[shaneypants]

I disagree with whoever that jazz musician is.

There's something to learn from every genre. If you're discriminate about music, you're closing yourself up to so many different techniques and stylings a genre has to offer.

Being discriminate and being aware of what you dislike is completely different.