Dealing with keys - Frustration

[moota]

Hi,

This question goes to all the keyboard wizards here.

I've always wondered how keyboard players negotiate with playing the same songs in a different key. I don't mean using the transpose button.

The keyboard is not layed out like a guitar, where you can shift the entire song up or down the fretboard for quick key change, or use a capo.

I feel quite frustrated when I need to learn the entire song again when I want to change key. Can someone post some links or methods or tips onto how to make this easier? Yeah I know...PRACTICE-NO SHORT CUT......BUT...It is always better when you know that you're practicing the right things.

Thanks,
Louis

 

[Cheez]

There are 2 things here - one is playing chords (or chordal progressions), and the other is playing melody.

The key (no pun intended) to playing chords in any key is to use numbers (or Roman numerals - which I recommend). Eg for a key in C major, the chord progression may be C, Em, F, G (for example). We see them as I, iii, IV, V (small roman numerals for minor chords and large numerals for major chords). So while the key may change, the roman numerals remains the same. When we modulate to Db major for example, we still play I, iii, IV, V (which in this case is Db, Fm, Gb, Ab).

Then you'll need to practice to get the fingers play the right chords. This is where practice comes in. When I started learning, I would play one song in EVERY key (while and black - from C to Db to E to Eb ...... etc). After a while, you won't have to think about chords at all. (eg a iii7 chord in F# major will "feel" a certain way when your fingers play them). I find the most difficult key to be F# major. So I would play almost every song I know in that key again and again till I'm familiar with the feel.

When it comes to melody, things change a bit. To play melody in any key, your brain either has to process very quickly (each note correspond to a particular number), or use your ears well (usually both). This is where scales, arpeggios etc come in - to get your fingers tuned to playing in a certain key.

 

[pf]

I think one useful way would be to learn to read the chinese fake sheet: "jianpu". Where all the notes are written in numbers and the chords on top of the bars. It really aids in tranposing the melody quickly. Also need to learn to tranpose the chords as you play. Its not too bad as the chords change once every 2 or 4 beats, got time to process while playing. Tricky bit is when the chords in the song is out of the chord family in the key. Takes a wee bit more time to process.

The whole thing takes time. To un-learn playing by the musical notations and re-learn in playing by the numbers. Before learning by the numbers, one must know the scales of the keys very well.

But if you can play using ears like Cheez said, it would be helpful as you would know which note to go from hearing the intervals.

I'm still learning as well. Last time I used to practice looking at the chords of a song in C major and try to play in D major or playing an A major song in G major. In case the vox wants to change key last minute during practice. Now haven't been doing. A bit rusty. hehe...

 

[monk]

please dont say that when it comes to the guitar, you can transpose very easily
that's really a myth
it's true to a certain extent.
if you transpose a jazz blues progression in all 12 keys, u'll realise that, u really need to learn the song, literally in all 12 keys and not just transposition

i recommend you to sing through the whole song, this will train your ear-hand co-ordination which will make things. the trick is, you can memorise the song in all 12 keys. but down the road in 20 years, if you dont remember it anymore - how is it that you churn out the song?
im sure, then, if you listen to the song once, and if you've trainedyour ears well enuff, the song will come out - that's more or less for melody

chords wise, i suggest you break up the song into functions .. see if there are II-V-I etc etc .. by breaking it down .. it's gonna be definitely easier to think of chord progressions in every key .. also sing the chord melodies .. again that'll reinforce your practise

 

[persentio]

Another tip would be to ask ur friends or family to give you listening tests on chords / arps so that you can make out the transpositions easier in the future.

But, the crux is still practice, practice, practice.

 

[moota]

Hi y'all,

Thank you for all your feedback on this issue.

Let me tell you guys something....this is the reason why I really have great respect for y'all KB players who can play in any key at the drop of a hat without hitting transpose key.

Well... I mainly play blues, mostly in the 12, 8 or 16 bars progression of I-IV-V. With just a little ii-V-I or some iii-vi-ii-V-I substitution at some places.

I read through some of the online practice tips to practice the progression in circle of fifths... meaning say starting from key of C, practice the progression keep changing keys until you reach back to C via:

C->G->D->A->E->B->F#->C#->G#(Ab)->Eb->Bb->F->C


I reckon that it will take a long time to master... but seem to make sense.

What are your comments on this practice strategy? Any other strategies?

Also as an adult... most learn better visually... are there any visual aids out there that can help in the learning process?

 

[Cheez]

Playing circle of fifths doesn't quite help you learn to play in different keys. All it does is to cycle through the keys. When playing a song, we need to be familar with the family of chords within that key (and many times, chords not within the family). A better way to do is to play the chords you mentioned in your post above. Then play them in all the different keys. A better chord progression to play descending bass:

I-V/vii (or Vb in theory terms - first inversion)- IV/vi (or IVb) - I/V (or Ic) - IV - I/iii (or Ib) - ii - V- I.

Good thing is that it rotates through every note of the bass. Then do this in EVERY KEY (C major, Db major, E major, Eb major etc). Helps you to start getting familar with all the bass notes of the key (and main family chords within a key). This will be a good start.

 

[monk]

i personally would not do circle of fifths or fourths

what i find useful is to learn all 12 keys indivisually
to help visually all 12 keys, it's impt to visualise the components of every key, which means diatonic arpeggios
if you can visualise the link between the relative harmonic minor and harmonic major, even the better, that'll strnegthen your major key visualisation
even better, if you can visualise your relative key melodic minor too and of course all the diatonic arpeggios

 

[pianomankris]

Practise basic progressions in every key e.g. I-IV-V, ii-V-I, then practise as 7th chords. But practise all R.H chords in root position, 1st inversion, 2nd inversion (3rd inv if using 7th chords) etc.

This is a good starter for ten.

 

[pikachu86]

i'm not a "keyboard wizard" but speaking from a piano player's point-of-view:

For me i would practise on the scale (with both hands) of that key first to get a feel of the piece. And then the arpeggios of that key to get a feel of how the tonic chord should sound. After i familiarise with these 2 steps i figure out what chords are needed in the piece and play arpeggios of the chords. If there're accidentals (other than black keys) involved i'll take extra caution.

i don't hit the transpose button because of *some symptoms*

 

[bongman]

......................

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

The keyboard is not layed out like a guitar, where you can shift the entire song up or down the fretboard for quick key change, or use a capo.

Haha, it is true that transposition on the guitar is relatively easy as compared to physically transposing on the keyboard. One problem guitarists usually face is that our "down" has a limit (open frets). Hey but pressing the transpose buttons on the keys is easier! Just wondering why you'd rather not do that..

 

[pikachu86]

Hey but pressing the transpose buttons on the keys is easier! Just wondering why you'd rather not do that..

some people get confused by the pitches after hitting the transposed button

 

[Cheez]

Hitting transpose button doesn't work well if you are modulating between keys. You have to stop playing for a while and press the transpose key. So the transition is not smooth.

There's no need for keyboardists to use transpose button. Easiest way is to play in every key. Why use transpose function when you can play in other keys anyway?

And yes, what pikachu says can also be true sometimes. Eg - it can be confusing to play in C while hearing it in Eb. So, not only does it make the keyboardist lazy, it also destroys the hearing skill as well!

 

[pf]

Yes. Using the transpose button will destroy the hearing. Seriously.

I realised that playing by ear is actually not so much literal playing by ear. It is more like playing according to brain/memory. After playing certain chords/chord progressions over and over again, I realised that I can recognise the chords/chord progressions readily at the keyboard. While playing certain chord progressions, I am reminded of a few songs that has the same chord progressions. Sometimes, I even recognise the key of the songs in addition to the chord progressions. How do I know? I look up the songs I am reminded of and look up the fakebook/leadsheet or play back on CD player and jam the scales/chords. Viola!

I do not think the above can be done if my brain is confused by the transpose button.