After reading the posts following my own, I have learned several things and I must concur that some of the arguments presented here by fellow softie shredcow and alvyn are more sensible and valid as compared to mine. My arguments are purely my own, I did not impose anyone to think or feel or act or behave the way a softie should as described in my post. Note I used the word "advisable".
ShredCow said:
We all focus on the individual and forget its about a community here. Courtesy extends to both buyer and seller... My point? Let the commentaries continue.
After some serious considerations, I think my argument is too skewed towards the sellers. I realised that my arguments protect sellers and neglect the buyers. Thanks for your wise pointers, I am convinced that opinions from both buyers and sellers should be treated with respect in a buy/sell thread. But what I am disappointed is that there are some people who are not interested in buying the products, but flame the sellers for high prices. I can understand that if you are interested in the product, and if you think the price offered by the seller is a lil steep, as a potential buyer, you may 'bargain' or offer a more reasonable price. But some people are not interested in the product, and to go around flaming others is not very polite.
Talking about impolite, I have to disagree with alvyn that it is not impolite to tell others that their price is way off whether they know it or not. Honestly, there is no end to who is right or wrong when morality is being discussed, unless I am mistaken that morality is being discussed here. Personally, due to my upbringing and moral values, I feel that it is impolite and unnatural to tell others off when their price is not right, but you may not feel the way I do. This is very subjective and personal, if you disagree, then I got nothing to say concerning the 'impolite' argument.
alvyn said:
Sheng Shiong supermarket sells goods that are nearing their expiry date, and generally speaking their goods are not as fresh as Cold Storage.
your point in this counter argument is not specifically stated. In anycase, I sorta agree that Sheng Siong dont really sell fresh goods, thus the difference in prices. But still, you will not go to Cold Storage and tell them that Sheng Shiong is selling at a lower price.
alvyn said:
Shopping malls have a "Non-negotiable" sign hung up for a reason, SOFT ads have the phrase "item is negotiable" for a reason too.
I still dont see your point in the same counter argument as above. If I am not wrong, the threadstarter's complain was toward the seller who was selling his epi LP ultra at a steep price. And if I remember correctly, the seller wrote 'negotiable', but the threadstarter flame him for pricing his lp ultra too steep. So if there is a reason for 'item is negotiable', why did the threadstarter flame the seller in the first place?
alvyn said:
if you have a product that's a lower price as compared to the seller, then all the more you shouldn't be messaging him. This would be market manipulation.
Agree. And I hope I didnt suggest to you or other softies that if seller A has a lower price product, seller A should tell seller B that his price is too steep. I remember I said something like 'it is not advisable to flame others for pricing something, which sells cheaper elsewhere, at a higher price.' (read the first paragraph on my previous argument) In fact, my original point of that portion of the argument is that we should not tell others that their price is off whether we have the same product or not. In an open forum like soft, competitions like having some other people selling the same product as you is bad enough, then come someone who isnt selling the same product as you, but start telling you that your price is wrong, is worse. I hope you get what I meant.
alvyn said:
ymmak said:
4) the seller has all his/her rights to sell anything at any price. by telling the seller the correct price that he/she should sell, u r actually manipulating market prices, trends and forces. who r u to control the market? even the moderator and administrator cannot control the prices of products sold here, who r u to say so much?
Technically speaking this isn't considered a 'market', because there isn't always 3 actors in the picture - one who is aware of the presence of two other actors, and thus having the ability to compare and contrast prices between the two actors. Well, technically speaking again, this isn't considered market manipulation, because you have not caused the seller to lower his or her price below the so-called "average" cost. If you influenced him/her to raise his/her price, or lower the price, and thus attracting customers, which resulted in everybody else matching prices, that would be manipulation. There's no market trend to talk about here, because its a classified section. As for market forces, I don't see any manipulation arising because the demand and supply are constant not in sync - you don't see 2 WTS threads and 2 WTB threads appearing on the same page often do you?
I think I have been tactless in my argument in saying that "u r actually manipulating ...." I should have been more careful with my words by saying "u r attempting to manipulate..." Hope that will sound more pleasant. And I agree that there isnt much of market forces to talk about because there isnt much competition or people selling the same products on the same day on the same page. However, there are some points I cannot help but to disagree. Enlighten me if I am wrong.
From your argument, it appears that you define market price as the "average" price of the product at that given time. It is precisely that we seldom see 2 WTS or WTB threads, there are not enough significant figures or prices to give the "average" cost of 2nd hand products at a given time. Prices of products are generally determined only by the seller at the given time. That means that the price which the seller offers will be the "average" price, hence market price. So by attempting to reduce(example, it may be increase) the seller's price, you are attempting to reduce the "average" price, thus attempting to manipulate the market price at that given time. And thus the market trend for the product over a time period will seem as though the supply outnumber the demand, because the market price has dropped. There might, just might, be a possibilty that when others see such an example, buyers will expect future sellers to follow suit, and the price will start declining. But that will be a little far fetch because as much as there is a market force to keep price low, there is also a force to keep the price up, therefore the market price is relatively constant.
I dont see why is it that this is a classified section so there isnt a market trend. If there isnt a market trend, then why will people still go around comparing prices? The reason why the threatstarter feels that he is justified in doing what he is doing, may be because he thought he know the market price and trend for that product, if not where does he get his comparisons from?
I fully agree with you on the privacy thing. Sorry, it is kind of silly of me to think that we cannot express our views freely in a open public forum like soft. I was too one-sided when I was writing my post. What happened to my secondary school essay writing skills?
Talking about my poor essay writing skills, I think I made an over-generalisation in suggesting that helping others is like assuming that the other party is a noob. But I just want to bring across the idea that there are some people who do not mind paying the kind of money which others feel is steep, because of other personal reasons, other than ignorance.
Oh, I think my biggest boo boo is to quote some people whom I should not have quote like BOC, if you get what I mean. But if a seller is indeed dishonest and we have evidence against him, shouldnt we be allowed to flame him? (ok, I hope this will not set off another debate) Anyway, thanks for your tip alvyn, I must say I learn quite a handful from your counter arguments. Looks like I have to start using my brain after 2 years of NS and start to write properly before I get into trouble.
And, if someone is seen struggling in a lake, of coz I will go and save him. I hope you are not juxtaposing a person struggling in a lake to buyer buying something for too high a price, because these 2 scenarios are different. For one, we cannot assume (I learn from alvyn) that the buyer is in any form of predicament or "struggle". For all you know, the buyer may be a willing buyer, not a ignorant or impulse buyer. If a buyer approaches me and says he is in a difficult position, I will help him, if not, I guess I will just keep my opinions to myself.
To end off, I once heard something from my GP tutor "a quiet person appeases everyone". I find this statement quite true because a person who keeps his opinions, be it good or bad, to himself, he will not offend anyone or compliment anyone. In a way, he is neutral or sitting on the fence. I think that this argument about whether the threadstarter is right or wrong is never ending. I guess to sit on the fence and observe the various arguments and take in useful pointers seem to be the best because you will neither side anyone or offend anyone, yet you learn a thing or 2 from others opinions or mistakes. So I guess my final opinion is neither anyone is right or wrong, everyone has their own merits. Sounds like some cheesy generic social study answers in secondary school.
If I have appeared biased towards or against anyone, it was unintended. If I have appeared defensive, I was just giving my last burst of fire to clarify myself and to make amendments, hope I didnt sound too offensive though.
