Cakewalk Sonar 8 PE - Most cost effective?

[ATW10C]

Buy some product from Cakewalk, qualify as a Cakewalk customer and Sonar 8 PE is available at 450. Comes with synths (Zeta, Dimensions) and other stuff.

So is Sonar the most cost effective? (Assuming legit route taken). Reaper is like 250 and if you add Z3ta+, it becomes 350 ...

Only thing is that its code is fat and wonder how processor demanding it is.

 

[Cheez]

Sonar is indeed one of the more value-for-money DAW. Most are also pretty good, but some has less functionality. Good review here(one of the more balanced ones):

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/shootout/shootout_summary.htm


Sonar 9 is about to be released. Get Sonar 8 now and you get a free upgrade. They are revealing one new feature a day as a teaser: http://www.cakewalk.com/sonarupgrade/sneak.asp.

Sonar does not tax CPU much. In fact, it's probably the most mature in terms of 64-bit addressing. E.g. to enable 32 bit plugins within 64-bit DAW, you need a "bridge" (Sonar does it with something called BitBridge since Sonar 6 ie 2 versions back; the current Cubase 5 can finally do it as well). But because the plugins are 32-bit, they can still only use up to 4GB of RAM even if you have more than 4GB of RAM installed (only 64-bit plugins can access more than 4GB of RAM). It now seems that the new version actually allows your 32-bit plugins to access 128GB of RAM within 64-bit environment - that's a life saver for sampling/softsynths that are still in 32-bit.

I believe you can purchase anything (low cost) from Cakewalk to be registered. Then as a registered customer, you are entitled to the discount when purchasing Sonar. That will save you $$$.

I'm not sure if I'll upgrade from 8PE to 9PE. I'm waiting for the entire list of new features to be revealed before deciding.

 

[ATW10C]

Sonar 9 is about to be released

Ooo I didn't know that.

One thing that got my attention on Sonar was that their synths have the best documentation/training via Simon Cann's books. That when I look at the cost of Dimensions and that look Sonar price, its like Sonar is being given away for free if anyone is interested in Cakewalk synths.

 

[kongwee]

Sonar is the best for midi writing. Anyway, compare to Logic I used. I can write faster with Sonar. By the look of the suite, I think you should go for it. Too many unlabeled icon may confuse you something. Only thing that prevent you to buy the product is that it support the wrong OS.:twisted:

 

[Cheez]

Oh no... please not another Mac vs PC discussion. It will go nowhere. I could say the same for Logic. I used to use it in PC for many years. I love it, more than Sonar and Cakewalk. Then they decided to dump PC. To me, they chose the wrong OS! The reason is not because Mac is better, but there are too many PC pirates than Macs. I'm forced to go back to Cakewalk which I used before Logic. Logic wasn't cheap in those days either... $$$ lost. I'm not very happy about it...

In the end, it's what it gets the job done, taking into account cost etc. Everybody chooses their own poison. Mac or PC, as long as you make good music.

 

[kongwee]

Logic is still the cheapest among the suite. Two or three year back it was $1700, now $788. Of cos Apple put that extra $900 on their Macs.:mrgreen:
Note that Emagic is bought by Apple, not they choose to support Apple.
That remind me of a game Halo as it was meant to be realise in Mac first. Then M$ bought the right from Bungie. hmmm...not related.
However, you can get Sonar PE cheaper than Logic Studio if you know how.

Note that I am anti Microsoft not PC. I still have a little netbook doing audio related stuff at home.

 

[Cheez]

The reason why Emagic decided for Apple to buy over and dump PC is perfectly that - piracy. That was the exact reason they gave to the consumers. They said that there are less Mac pirated version compared to PC, and so supporting PC is not worth it. Poured cold water on all of us PC Logic users who bought it. At the time, Logic is in the packages of Silver, Gold and Platinum. I got Gold, and that cost me about $700. Sad.

 

[kongwee]

The reason why Emagic decided for Apple to buy over and dump PC is perfectly that - piracy.. Sad.

That the irony of a new Mac user, NO Pirate software. Over time, I get used to it. If I can't afford it, don't get it. It nice to get thing the proper way, while most of them will call you stupid and silly.

 

[ATW10C]

Sonar PE at US$450 is cheaper than Logic US$500? and gives a lot of add on (synths, etc) that cost a lot more if bought individually.

However for midi editing, I wonder if something like Eloquence add on will do the trick. I find the Mixcraft interface the easiest to use. Just would like a strong piano roll/midi editor. (Some have said Mixcraft VB3 vsti covers its cost if you are interested in that sound). Mixcraft US$40 vs Reapers $60 though Reaper got more stuff in it.

But the one I am very interested in is SongFrame. Cos that's how I am using Mixcraft. Record phrases and then string them up. But with SongFrame, all the various individual phrases are accessible in a database. Recently I did 2 related "phrases" but it seemed complete in themselves but its too short to be a full piece. Then for another piece, I ended up with more bridging phrases than needed. All can be cannibalised but they are stored in separate files. So SongFrame address this issue.

The other thing that I am looking at are automated or semi automated harmonisers/arrangers like Onyx, Harmony Navigator, etc. I can come up with a melody, but the accompaniment is non existent. I do know of C->CFG/I,IV,V but off course its not good enough and too many means no groove effect.

Logic is still the cheapest among the suite. Two or three year back it was $1700, now $788. Of cos Apple put that extra $900 on their Macs.:mrgreen:
Note that Emagic is bought by Apple, not they choose to support Apple.
That remind me of a game Halo as it was meant to be realise in Mac first. Then M$ bought the right from Bungie. hmmm...not related.
However, you can get Sonar PE cheaper than Logic Studio if you know how.

Note that I am anti Microsoft not PC. I still have a little netbook doing audio related stuff at home.

 

[kongwee]

Oh, they bring down the price it was $600++ when I look at PE 8. Roland did transfer quite a lot of it's technology into Sonar. Groove sampler and future step sequencer have the favor of Roland 's fantom engine. Song frame function is very similar to Pattern in Fantom engine.

 

[Cheez]

You can do all those in Sonar. The way it's done may differ slightly, but nothing you wanted cannot be done. For harmonizers, if you are into those stuffs, don't forget there's always 3rd party VST plugin. I'm not sure if Onyx is VST, but I assume it is. So whatever VST you have you can still use - in any DAW actually. Sonar has Roland V-Vocal plugin included which uses the Roland Variphrase technology - does vocal harmonisation among other interesting stuff with vocal audio tracks.

 

[ATW10C]

Oh, they bring down the price it was $600++ when I look at PE 8. Roland did transfer quite a lot of it's technology into Sonar. Groove sampler and future step sequencer have the favor of Roland 's fantom engine. Song frame function is very similar to Pattern in Fantom engine.

That is if you are first time customer.
So, you buy something cheap first, a loop or book. Then buy
Sonar and get return customer price. :mrgreen:

 

[ATW10C]

You can do all those in Sonar. The way it's done may differ slightly, but nothing you wanted cannot be done. For harmonizers, if you are into those stuffs, don't forget there's always 3rd party VST plugin. I'm not sure if Onyx is VST, but I assume it is. So whatever VST you have you can still use - in any DAW actually. Sonar has Roland V-Vocal plugin included which uses the Roland Variphrase technology - does vocal harmonisation among other interesting stuff with vocal audio tracks.

Can like what I am doing now in Mixcraft but not seamless.
SongFrame http://www.tanageraudioworks.com/Products/SongFrame is the only seamless app I have found so far to build a database of musical phrases. The only other one I found is
http://www.cognitone.com/products/mps/intro/page.stml. But the price is 890 euros! And its beta.

Most of the DAWs functionality located very "downstream" in the process.

I think I will list the harmoniser/arranger apps I found so far. Maybe useful to someone else.
Onyx http://www.ntonyx.com/onyx.htm
Harmony Improvisator VST http://www.improvisator.de/en/
Harmony Navigator http://www.cognitone.com/products/nav/intro/page.stml
Palette http://www.palette-mct.com/overview.html

A bunch of freeware or rather abandonware
http://www.musicmachines.net/download.htm

 

[kongwee]

From all plug-in, nobody come up with arpeggio generator.

 

[ATW10C]

Arpeggio generators but for PC
http://grunw.hypermart.net/Arp/
http://synarp.suppa.jp/7365/index.html

Tried SongFrame demo, don't recognise ASIO, uses some kind of midi router software that does not work on my system, so that's it. Guess I have to either have to learn to name my files well, save individual phrases as separate files or something.

The Onyx AI generated chord progressions, well, just awful or rather extraneous. Tried on 3 melodies and they sounded better monophonic. Maybe my mind too Chinese, the melody is too standalone. Or my sense of harmony needs work.

 

[kongwee]

It is ok. My fantom keyboard got it, but becos I do on other site so it better software based.I just witness freezing and crashing Wintel recording. Just 14 track. There was a protool mac that much more reliable and easier to transfer project. Not use. Waste half hour on project transfer because of glitches.Anyway, not related.

 

[Cheez]

ATW10C, the new Sonar comes with a built-in arppegiator. There you go. You have to get it now! They revealed that today in their "sneak peek" website:

Quote:
The next version of SONAR will allow you to arpeggiate your MIDI notes or automation in new ways

 

[kongwee]

Quote:
The next version of SONAR will allow you to arpeggiate your MIDI notes or automation in new ways

Yeah!!!!!!

 

[Cheez]

Sorry to report - the next version of Sonar is not a upgrade, but an update. So, the next update (and worse, it's a paid update for existing users) is 8.5, not 9. I'm not very happy...

For new users of users before of pre-8 versions, it's a good time to "update". For version 8 users, it's not a good day.

 

[Cheez]

Actually, come to think of it, it's more like a version 9. Perhaps they have too many copies of version 8 not sold, so this will enable them to get rid more of version 8 while providing 8.5 as a download...