ATTN fellow SOFTies: this is absolutely ridiculous.
- Thread starter visa
- Start date
- Status
sage
New member
Dude please lah. The bloke's tired, he isn't a full-time softie man, and he's definitely not daddy to 15,016 softies. Cut him some slack. If you'd like a more liberal forum that takes fun in the freedom of NC16, by all means open your own forum. I'd join it but I think I outgrew the humour in that crap some years ago.
If anyone wants a more revised moderation, by all means give specific suggestions. Don't just blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblahblah, hey guys, see see! Bad guy. *point finger*.
I know it's coooool, but there's no need to go punk and start a riot.
If you're so pissed off, imagine how Mr Stay Puft! here feels doing this everyday --
soft said:
I think ahkiatt just spoke for the rest of us in this area. Damn immature business this, coming off adults and people you'd expect to have a plethora of sense.
Disgusting.
Anirudh
New member
Gosh guys, get over it. Its a temporary ban. He'll be back in a few days.
visa
New member
Reply from levan
He msged me on MSN for this to be posted on SOFT because he's banned and can't do it.
_____________
James
According to your own words
Name ONE instance where you PM me to ‘warn’ me about anything.
Just one.
Because I have never received any recent PM from you in the last 6 months with regards to this. Not one.
I check my inbox very often. I haven’t gotten anything.
The last time you ignored my messages too and I’m sure you’ll remember this.
When it comes down to it, you banned a subtle innuendo while letting rampant anti-government remarks run wild, while letting racist undertones slip past you, while letting rude assaults against others fly over your head – NONE of which were from me. Instead, you chose to focus on something that was barely significant with NOBODY making a complaint against it – at all. Not one. Not a single person.
But instead of merely just pointing a finger at you, I'm happy to give some unbiased and humble suggestions that might prevent further instances like these from happening - not just to me but past and present SOFTies who have experienced the same thing who have either voiced it out or not.. These are just my humble suggestions, you are welcomed to think them irrelevant.
**********************
SUGGESTIONS
**********************
Here are some of my humble suggestions to you with regards to moderation. You are welcomed to disagree.
1) How about an updated Forum Rules thread? [/b]One that more closely resembles what you feel is the current trend in SOFT. Be sure to include ‘Innuendos of ANY KIND are greatly prohibited. No PM or prior warning will be allowed.” Cause that’s EXACTLY what you did. So yes, if you’d spell it out nicely for all of us, then perhaps there’d be less of a case in point.
2) Also, it would be nice that when you're about to close a thread due to a reason you deem unacceptable, to at least post an end response and leave it there for a bit so people know what's going on. At least show that you do respect the audience who reads it and have considered their point of views on the topic and not just yours.
3) Really do PM people if an offense is committed. Cause seriously, I have never gotten a PM from any moderator or from you with regards with ANYTHING relating to this.
4) Encourage active moderation from others as well so you are not overworked. It's understandable that with a full time job and your own commitments, the stress of having to look out over the forum must be pressurizing. With more manpower involved with consistent and enforced guidelines, the community will also thrive and there will be less stress on your part, thus enabling you to make clearer judgments when the time requires.
5) A fixed number of warnings for offenders so as to avoid situations of accused inconsistency. Perhaps you might want to make the text RED in color to make it more obvious to offenders who might have missed it in the busy forums?
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I'm sure many others can come up with more points that will help too.
To ahkiatt:
With regards to the cosplay thing, get your facts right. I was the one who stood up AGAINST the flaming of the kid and said his individuality should be respected. There were plenty of others who openly ridiculed him. Not me. But I was ‘warned’ for it regardless. But that’s old news so I won’t drag it up. And it's not relevant to the current thread.
Ized: I know it is only a three days ban. But I am speaking with regards to the principle behind the ways James moderates these forums, not about me per se. And from the responses from various parties here – some of whom I don’t even know in real life – it’s obvious that I am not the only one who thinks that way. I’m just the one who brings it up openly to give James a fair chance to respond, rather than quietly bickering about it. It’s fair for James too.
And to sage:
I am not the only one who has expressed these opinions. Not on this thread only.
And I have also already pointed out specific suggestions. Please read before commenting. Thank you.
And actually, ahkiatt came across as the minority opinion in most of the responses to this thread. So no, I don’t think he speaks for everyone.
Sorry to humbly disagree.
All I’m saying is, if there is a fair number of people who agree with me on this, many of whom are respectable posters in SOFT, should this not represent a point that needs some actual consideration? I believe that is a fair assessment of the situation.
Think about it dude. I gain nothing from this - certainly no positive recognition or fame or popularity, if anything, I'll putting myself up to be a punching bag.
But the only reason why I do this is because I have sensed significant dissatisfaction from enough loyal supporters of SOFT (many of whom have been on SOFT for years!) to want to voice it out. And I think we all care deeply for this community AND have contributed quite a bit to these forums - well, at least enough to at least be heard by the powers that be.
After all, this is the Sound of Friends Together - who says Friends always have to make agreeable noises?
I think I have presented a fair counterargument to James' above post.
And I hope my suggested ideas to further improve the overall solid moderation in SOFT will be taken seriously into consideration.
Levan (NOT Visa)
He msged me on MSN for this to be posted on SOFT because he's banned and can't do it.
_____________
James
According to your own words
Name ONE instance where you PM me to ‘warn’ me about anything.
Just one.
Because I have never received any recent PM from you in the last 6 months with regards to this. Not one.
I check my inbox very often. I haven’t gotten anything.
The last time you ignored my messages too and I’m sure you’ll remember this.
When it comes down to it, you banned a subtle innuendo while letting rampant anti-government remarks run wild, while letting racist undertones slip past you, while letting rude assaults against others fly over your head – NONE of which were from me. Instead, you chose to focus on something that was barely significant with NOBODY making a complaint against it – at all. Not one. Not a single person.
But instead of merely just pointing a finger at you, I'm happy to give some unbiased and humble suggestions that might prevent further instances like these from happening - not just to me but past and present SOFTies who have experienced the same thing who have either voiced it out or not.. These are just my humble suggestions, you are welcomed to think them irrelevant.
**********************
SUGGESTIONS
**********************
Here are some of my humble suggestions to you with regards to moderation. You are welcomed to disagree.
1) How about an updated Forum Rules thread? [/b]One that more closely resembles what you feel is the current trend in SOFT. Be sure to include ‘Innuendos of ANY KIND are greatly prohibited. No PM or prior warning will be allowed.” Cause that’s EXACTLY what you did. So yes, if you’d spell it out nicely for all of us, then perhaps there’d be less of a case in point.
2) Also, it would be nice that when you're about to close a thread due to a reason you deem unacceptable, to at least post an end response and leave it there for a bit so people know what's going on. At least show that you do respect the audience who reads it and have considered their point of views on the topic and not just yours.
3) Really do PM people if an offense is committed. Cause seriously, I have never gotten a PM from any moderator or from you with regards with ANYTHING relating to this.
4) Encourage active moderation from others as well so you are not overworked. It's understandable that with a full time job and your own commitments, the stress of having to look out over the forum must be pressurizing. With more manpower involved with consistent and enforced guidelines, the community will also thrive and there will be less stress on your part, thus enabling you to make clearer judgments when the time requires.
5) A fixed number of warnings for offenders so as to avoid situations of accused inconsistency. Perhaps you might want to make the text RED in color to make it more obvious to offenders who might have missed it in the busy forums?
***********************************
***********************************
I'm sure many others can come up with more points that will help too.
To ahkiatt:
With regards to the cosplay thing, get your facts right. I was the one who stood up AGAINST the flaming of the kid and said his individuality should be respected. There were plenty of others who openly ridiculed him. Not me. But I was ‘warned’ for it regardless. But that’s old news so I won’t drag it up. And it's not relevant to the current thread.
Ized: I know it is only a three days ban. But I am speaking with regards to the principle behind the ways James moderates these forums, not about me per se. And from the responses from various parties here – some of whom I don’t even know in real life – it’s obvious that I am not the only one who thinks that way. I’m just the one who brings it up openly to give James a fair chance to respond, rather than quietly bickering about it. It’s fair for James too.
And to sage:
I am not the only one who has expressed these opinions. Not on this thread only.
And I have also already pointed out specific suggestions. Please read before commenting. Thank you.
And actually, ahkiatt came across as the minority opinion in most of the responses to this thread. So no, I don’t think he speaks for everyone.
Sorry to humbly disagree.
All I’m saying is, if there is a fair number of people who agree with me on this, many of whom are respectable posters in SOFT, should this not represent a point that needs some actual consideration? I believe that is a fair assessment of the situation.
Think about it dude. I gain nothing from this - certainly no positive recognition or fame or popularity, if anything, I'll putting myself up to be a punching bag.
But the only reason why I do this is because I have sensed significant dissatisfaction from enough loyal supporters of SOFT (many of whom have been on SOFT for years!) to want to voice it out. And I think we all care deeply for this community AND have contributed quite a bit to these forums - well, at least enough to at least be heard by the powers that be.
After all, this is the Sound of Friends Together - who says Friends always have to make agreeable noises?
I think I have presented a fair counterargument to James' above post.
And I hope my suggested ideas to further improve the overall solid moderation in SOFT will be taken seriously into consideration.
Levan (NOT Visa)
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SherT
New member
And in typical soft fashion, the carebears have arrived.
Sage, you are missing his entire point. You claim that James isn't a daddy to 15,000 people. Visa just said that he should encourage the community to take care of itself, instead of instituting total recall every time a problem arises. Incidentally, James has had enough time to scan threads and delete or edit very specific bits of information, so I don't see how your point still stands?
If that were really the case, don't you think that he would benefit from having a close-knit community with the presence of mind to deal with issues on their own, instead of going "Oh my god, save me!" every time a little conflict of interest arises?
Numerous other communities have proven that such a mindset breeds a strong system of values and encourages quality thought as opposed to half-aware rambling.
We are asking for a very specific revision to made in the moderation principles of this community; that is to stop sweeping every little thing under the rug, and stop carpet-bombing anyone who disagrees with your own beliefs.
I am shocked, that you, a moderator would have to resort to a scathing personal attack instead of tackling the issue pragmatically. This only serves to speak on behalf of your general attitude.
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sage
New member
Levan - wokie, point taken, since unfortunately those who share ahkiatt's views couldn't be hecked to reply in the first place / are not in the forum.
As for the "suggestions" retort, I wasn't referring to you lah. I know you're always there with a handful to toss.
I was referring to the unnecessary noise. ~~Noise~~. No mention of you there.
It made me wonder tho, why we're all reading the suggestions when it's only between you and Mr Stay Puft!.
Hello Shirt.
"Incidentally, James has had enough time to scan threads and delete or edit very specific bits of information, so I don't see how your point still stands?"
Aye? What in the world gave you the idea that he's doing it alone?
"don't you think that he would benefit from having a close-knit community with the presence of mind to deal with issues on their own"
1 - I agree, he would indeed benefit!! Nay, EVERYONE would benefit!~
2 - Within a 15k number, full of conflicting lifestyles, belief systems, people biting each others' heads off, ages,... tell me the percentage possibility of a "close-knit" community? I'm just curious... really.. really lah.
3 - .. come to think of it, the whole 'presence of mind to deal with issues on their own' bit is a tad ironic at this point and in this thread, isn't it?
I was wondering when it'll get this low :}
Running and ratting off the tally to size me up so quick -- Dang, I thought it was all good until that last one.
Just to be fair; Mr Softie only modded me to help clean out quotes and stuff from the vocal forum since I have no life and post there often.
Big round of applause for Shirt!~
And. Thanks for calling me a carebear, I like them muchness and can only be flattered to be called one.
As for the "suggestions" retort, I wasn't referring to you lah. I know you're always there with a handful to toss.
I was referring to the unnecessary noise. ~~Noise~~. No mention of you there.
It made me wonder tho, why we're all reading the suggestions when it's only between you and Mr Stay Puft!.
Hello Shirt.
"Incidentally, James has had enough time to scan threads and delete or edit very specific bits of information, so I don't see how your point still stands?"
Aye? What in the world gave you the idea that he's doing it alone?
"don't you think that he would benefit from having a close-knit community with the presence of mind to deal with issues on their own"
1 - I agree, he would indeed benefit!! Nay, EVERYONE would benefit!~
2 - Within a 15k number, full of conflicting lifestyles, belief systems, people biting each others' heads off, ages,... tell me the percentage possibility of a "close-knit" community? I'm just curious... really.. really lah.
3 - .. come to think of it, the whole 'presence of mind to deal with issues on their own' bit is a tad ironic at this point and in this thread, isn't it?
I was wondering when it'll get this low :}
Running and ratting off the tally to size me up so quick -- Dang, I thought it was all good until that last one.
Just to be fair; Mr Softie only modded me to help clean out quotes and stuff from the vocal forum since I have no life and post there often.
Big round of applause for Shirt!~
And. Thanks for calling me a carebear, I like them muchness and can only be flattered to be called one.
marilyn
New member
walau this thread still ongoing ah? lol actually i couldnt sleep n stay up all night to watch animes n read my book and also keep track of this thread. seems like the the last few post are happened from midnight till now. is this an issue that u got u guys so stirred that just cant slp or r u guys just like me??? really cant slp???
seriously i think everyone has made good points n arguements and also at the same time made remarks that came out too fast which maybe shouldnt have been made without knowing certain facts 1st.
i think all parties involved should at least by now said all they want to say and like it or not there is definitely truth in what the involved has gone thru if not there would not be this thread in the 1st place.
so for now hopefully everyone take a step back 1st and look at the whole situation again and seriously consider what do they really want out of this?
having a fast answer/solution/resolve might not be the best answer/solution/resolve.
hope u guys have a nice day ahead ok, still have to work later sigh...
seriously i think everyone has made good points n arguements and also at the same time made remarks that came out too fast which maybe shouldnt have been made without knowing certain facts 1st.
i think all parties involved should at least by now said all they want to say and like it or not there is definitely truth in what the involved has gone thru if not there would not be this thread in the 1st place.
so for now hopefully everyone take a step back 1st and look at the whole situation again and seriously consider what do they really want out of this?
having a fast answer/solution/resolve might not be the best answer/solution/resolve.
hope u guys have a nice day ahead ok, still have to work later sigh...
sage
New member
Gooodmorningmarilyn.
I can't sleep lah. Can't help replying after what Shirt said either, especially that 'general attitude' remark (personally, it's funny cos people who know me seem to think I'm unpredictable). So Shirt really got my attention with that one. *applause*
Besides, I couldn't resist replying to someone who calls me a carebear, what a sweetheart, oh.
K lah I'm getting out of this. Good luck everyone, and have fun messing the place up. If anything, PM me k? Enjoy the day~~~~
I can't sleep lah. Can't help replying after what Shirt said either, especially that 'general attitude' remark (personally, it's funny cos people who know me seem to think I'm unpredictable). So Shirt really got my attention with that one. *applause*
Besides, I couldn't resist replying to someone who calls me a carebear, what a sweetheart, oh.
K lah I'm getting out of this. Good luck everyone, and have fun messing the place up. If anything, PM me k? Enjoy the day~~~~
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AEnimic
New member
Oh man, if only the sig section allows three paragraphs of pwnage....
Your two cents were well-spent, sir. Very well-spent.
In full final conclusion, Levan is just banned for 3 days..and he couldn't actually resist the addiction of not posting in SOFT. James reign as ultimate supremacy once again.
And as said, James contributed far more than Levan by having this place as an output to all your helpful threads, Levan.
At least have respect for the man. Biting the hand that feeds isn't an honourable thing.
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indianstallion
New member
I think the ban was lame. I saw the thread and the joke was pretty harmless. And the point is no one even complained that it was offensive to them, so there was no reason for the ban. So if next time I post something that only James doesn't like or find offensive, does that mean I am liable to be banned as well?
It's not about the length of the ban or who contributed more, I feel a moderator shouldn't be letting his own dislikes (in this case seems like a dislike of wood-based jokes) influence who he bans, you should moderate those who are disruptive to the forum and its users, which is not the case here.
Now excuse me while I go polish this piece of wood I have with me.
It's not about the length of the ban or who contributed more, I feel a moderator shouldn't be letting his own dislikes (in this case seems like a dislike of wood-based jokes) influence who he bans, you should moderate those who are disruptive to the forum and its users, which is not the case here.
Now excuse me while I go polish this piece of wood I have with me.
taytehni
New member
i think that levan contributed more to the music scene in singapore compared to mr james hahas. also,if james really never did send levan any pm or any kind or warning, it would be unfair to even suspend him for 3 days. what james just did was to chase away one of the best members in soft which contributed alot of useful information to all of us(James did made a huge contribution too), who are here because of music, and for some, the buy and sell forum 
. Also doesnt it seems like a joke when muhdzr wasnt banned or even suspended what he choose to created multiple threads and also multiple accounts? worst of all in his thread which he created to "apologise" to us softies, he even called our fellow softie a " DOG ", worst still, he talked about masturbate( and also doing it with his wife if i never remember wrongly , do correct me if im wrong ). where did all the logic went to? i do think that maybe soft should do a revised version of the rules and regulations? lastly i think that maybe we should come up with a thread and voice out our comments and feedbacks about our views on the mods so that they know how we feel and that they could lead the forum better?
just my 0.001cent
. Also doesnt it seems like a joke when muhdzr wasnt banned or even suspended what he choose to created multiple threads and also multiple accounts? worst of all in his thread which he created to "apologise" to us softies, he even called our fellow softie a " DOG ", worst still, he talked about masturbate( and also doing it with his wife if i never remember wrongly , do correct me if im wrong ). where did all the logic went to? i do think that maybe soft should do a revised version of the rules and regulations? lastly i think that maybe we should come up with a thread and voice out our comments and feedbacks about our views on the mods so that they know how we feel and that they could lead the forum better? just my 0.001cent
cold_static544
New member
aye guys, let's not berate the mods or james for this, they're having a difficult time as it is,
not that i think banning roninriot or what's the right thing to do,
but the rest have a point, given his contributions, a perma-ban's a very harsh thing.
and i didnt know that soft=sound of friends together ! haha.
let's keep it that way.
not that i think banning roninriot or what's the right thing to do,
but the rest have a point, given his contributions, a perma-ban's a very harsh thing.
and i didnt know that soft=sound of friends together ! haha.
let's keep it that way.
SherT
New member
Sage: The reason why this whole conflict started was because of a number of individuals' disagreement (myself included) with his moderation style to begin with, specifically his banning of levan and his actions in the several instances listed out earlier in this thread. Calling everyone disgusting for voicing their opinions doesn't exactly come off as very urbane now does it?
I think it's more ironic that the people contributing to this thread are offering their opinions and suggestions for change, and instead of attempting to achieve some form of solidarity, people like you are trying to rebut every idea that doesn't sit well within your own beliefs, and stubbornly maintaning that some level of community regulation will result in chaos.
The idea is for people not to ask for their head to get bitten off. If people thought before they shot, there wouldn't be a need for it.
I think it's more ironic that the people contributing to this thread are offering their opinions and suggestions for change, and instead of attempting to achieve some form of solidarity, people like you are trying to rebut every idea that doesn't sit well within your own beliefs, and stubbornly maintaning that some level of community regulation will result in chaos.
The idea is for people not to ask for their head to get bitten off. If people thought before they shot, there wouldn't be a need for it.
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hmmm....
kena ban 3 days... tats ok wat... i believe tat many of us here (including me), kena ban b4... for the record, sumtimes i dunno wat i was banned for.
sms james nad he replied tat i said sumtink bad... then ok lor... 3 days only, not forever.
come on la... give james a break... he laid his rules n his following it. why cant we?
it doesnt matter who contributes more to the scene, to the orphanage, to the lorong chicken etc... we still have to play by the rules.
every1 want james to reply... then after he did, there are still questions.
still the 'request' to re-do the rules etc...
why not we go speakers corner? we talk abt the economy? the price hikes? the rules, laws like cant smoke inside kopitiam, cant slp on bench, cant smoke contraband?
then we request for revision of the everything! just to suit us!
haiya... i just believe tat tis thread shouldnt even started. we should settle it privately.
kena ban 3 days... tats ok wat... i believe tat many of us here (including me), kena ban b4... for the record, sumtimes i dunno wat i was banned for.
sms james nad he replied tat i said sumtink bad... then ok lor... 3 days only, not forever.
come on la... give james a break... he laid his rules n his following it. why cant we?
it doesnt matter who contributes more to the scene, to the orphanage, to the lorong chicken etc... we still have to play by the rules.
every1 want james to reply... then after he did, there are still questions.
still the 'request' to re-do the rules etc...
why not we go speakers corner? we talk abt the economy? the price hikes? the rules, laws like cant smoke inside kopitiam, cant slp on bench, cant smoke contraband?
then we request for revision of the everything! just to suit us!
haiya... i just believe tat tis thread shouldnt even started. we should settle it privately.
Firstly I've got not piece in this cake. I don't know any of the moderators nor Levan. Let me see it from 3rd party point of view.
1. Moderation is a very difficult work. More often than not - things are very subjective. Some of the mods cannot cover all the posts made by the members. A lot of posts are left to the intepretation. Some may see it offensive - others may not. I have not been observing how the mods do their duties - it's difficult to do so. We do not know the work they do behind the background. How many of us know which post they have deleted on a daily basis? It's very easy to sit here and judge from our point of view - but we've not been in seen things from their perspective before. Pretty much like a PA system personnel - nobody notices the work until something goes wrong.
2. Starting a thread like this is very distasteful. Some of you may say this is to get some improvement on soft - but after reading the posts - what I see is mostly mudslinging against the mods. If soft was the government most of you would be in jail by now. In most other forums - all of those speaking out against moderators will be banned. So the irony is I see the mods willing to tolerate such things - and yet there are calls to say they are intolerant.
3. Using another person's account to post in other forums will get you a lengthier ban. Might as well let the person use your bank account to finance his uprising. I am suprised no action has been taken on this. However - I see that this is a common occurance in soft - people signing in soft with double accounts and bragging about the gear they are selling. People say this is a different case? How different? Fundamentally I see another member allowing another banned member to use his account. This is consider a breach of forum rules.
I can't vouch for how the mods run this place - because I am not a mod. If I don't like the way they do their moderation - I let them know privately to try and resolve. If it fails - I simply leave. I don't owe the mods anything neither do they owe me anything.
Some of you may say I suck up to the mods.. up to you. I neither receive payment nor am I friends with the mods. Can't even recognise them if I see them in the street. What I do have is experience in much larger international forums than this - and most of you would be banned by now in those forums. The fact that this thread remains open is suprising to me. However, this is the Mod's place - don't like it? Leave. Start your own forum - where you feel you would do a much better job at moderation. Hard truth.
1. Moderation is a very difficult work. More often than not - things are very subjective. Some of the mods cannot cover all the posts made by the members. A lot of posts are left to the intepretation. Some may see it offensive - others may not. I have not been observing how the mods do their duties - it's difficult to do so. We do not know the work they do behind the background. How many of us know which post they have deleted on a daily basis? It's very easy to sit here and judge from our point of view - but we've not been in seen things from their perspective before. Pretty much like a PA system personnel - nobody notices the work until something goes wrong.
2. Starting a thread like this is very distasteful. Some of you may say this is to get some improvement on soft - but after reading the posts - what I see is mostly mudslinging against the mods. If soft was the government most of you would be in jail by now. In most other forums - all of those speaking out against moderators will be banned. So the irony is I see the mods willing to tolerate such things - and yet there are calls to say they are intolerant.
3. Using another person's account to post in other forums will get you a lengthier ban. Might as well let the person use your bank account to finance his uprising. I am suprised no action has been taken on this. However - I see that this is a common occurance in soft - people signing in soft with double accounts and bragging about the gear they are selling. People say this is a different case? How different? Fundamentally I see another member allowing another banned member to use his account. This is consider a breach of forum rules.
I can't vouch for how the mods run this place - because I am not a mod. If I don't like the way they do their moderation - I let them know privately to try and resolve. If it fails - I simply leave. I don't owe the mods anything neither do they owe me anything.
Some of you may say I suck up to the mods.. up to you. I neither receive payment nor am I friends with the mods. Can't even recognise them if I see them in the street. What I do have is experience in much larger international forums than this - and most of you would be banned by now in those forums. The fact that this thread remains open is suprising to me. However, this is the Mod's place - don't like it? Leave. Start your own forum - where you feel you would do a much better job at moderation. Hard truth.
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rhythmdeaf
New member
Interesting thread. I wonder how many more posts could James take before he kills this thread.
Now, could someone tell me if I need to hang on to a piece of wood while fingering A minor ?
Now, could someone tell me if I need to hang on to a piece of wood while fingering A minor ?
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