DoubleBlade
New member
any recommendations for keyboards that has just enough functions demanded when going for a gig and at the same time of "gigable" weight?
do Triton Le's fit this catagory?
do Triton Le's fit this catagory?
Any "gigable" keyboards out there?
- Thread starter DoubleBlade
- Start date
Cheez
Moderator
Depends on what you're going to use your keyboard for:
(a) Do you need a sequencer?
(b) Do you want weighted or non-weighted?
(c) What are the sounds you're going to use?
(a) If you need a sequencer, then probably one of the workstations. Or better still - use a notebook.
(b) Weighted if you're a trained pianist and wants that feel, and if you play piano sounds most of the time. Weighted comes in 2 forms - graded and balanced. Graded - lower keys are heavier than higher keys to simulate a real piano; balanced - weight of keys uniform throughout the keyboard. Graded is for pianists who wants the feel as close to a real piano as possible; balanced better if you're going to do sequencing. Otherwise you'll have problem getting the right velocity you want (especially when sequencing drum parts).
Unweighted if you want to use organ sounds like the B3 - you want fast action for glissandoes etc.
(c) If you're using lots of synths sounds, you may need a mod wheel, pitch bend and maybe one that comes with aftertouch.
As discussed on other threads, I believe if you want something easy to carry around, the best option is to get a keyboard midi controller (which are usually pretty light) and invest on a notebook with softsynths. M-audio Keystation Pro is a very light and cheap 88 weighted key controller. If you want unweighted, the Keystation 88es is another possible option (even cheaper).
If you don't want to do sequencing and need the usual bread-and-butter keyboard sounds, Roland RD series are not bad. Yamaha S series are also not bad - better keyboard feel but I personally prefer the Roland sounds to that of Yamaha.
(a) Do you need a sequencer?
(b) Do you want weighted or non-weighted?
(c) What are the sounds you're going to use?
(a) If you need a sequencer, then probably one of the workstations. Or better still - use a notebook.
(b) Weighted if you're a trained pianist and wants that feel, and if you play piano sounds most of the time. Weighted comes in 2 forms - graded and balanced. Graded - lower keys are heavier than higher keys to simulate a real piano; balanced - weight of keys uniform throughout the keyboard. Graded is for pianists who wants the feel as close to a real piano as possible; balanced better if you're going to do sequencing. Otherwise you'll have problem getting the right velocity you want (especially when sequencing drum parts).
Unweighted if you want to use organ sounds like the B3 - you want fast action for glissandoes etc.
(c) If you're using lots of synths sounds, you may need a mod wheel, pitch bend and maybe one that comes with aftertouch.
As discussed on other threads, I believe if you want something easy to carry around, the best option is to get a keyboard midi controller (which are usually pretty light) and invest on a notebook with softsynths. M-audio Keystation Pro is a very light and cheap 88 weighted key controller. If you want unweighted, the Keystation 88es is another possible option (even cheaper).
If you don't want to do sequencing and need the usual bread-and-butter keyboard sounds, Roland RD series are not bad. Yamaha S series are also not bad - better keyboard feel but I personally prefer the Roland sounds to that of Yamaha.
DoubleBlade
New member
okay after u said all that i guess a weighted keyboard workstation would be the ideal one for me....
is there any other keyboard workstations around that are of equalivant standard to the M audio keystation pro? surely Korg , Roland and Yamaha would want to have a slice of the pie in terms of value for money keyboard workstations and so my pick would be that they should have their own series of keyboards that could compete wif the M audio keystation pro...
i would also like to know about the price range of these gadgets in the market and where can i find them....
is there any other keyboard workstations around that are of equalivant standard to the M audio keystation pro? surely Korg , Roland and Yamaha would want to have a slice of the pie in terms of value for money keyboard workstations and so my pick would be that they should have their own series of keyboards that could compete wif the M audio keystation pro...
i would also like to know about the price range of these gadgets in the market and where can i find them....
Cheez
Moderator
The Keystation Pro is not a workstation - it is a midi controller keyboard.
In the workstation range - Korg: Triton, Roland: Fantom, Yamaha: Motif.
What I meant is that if you want a workstation, you may want to consider getting a controller keyboard (one without any sounds built-in) and a notebook. The notebook will serve as a sequencer and external sound source. This will be the best way to carry things around for a gig - lightest. Workstations are not light.
If you want to go for weighted workstations, do know that only 88 keys comes weighted. Anything less are not. So cost will escalate.
Best way is to try them out for yourself. Korg: City Music, Roland: Swee Lee, Yamaha: Yamaha.
Oh, and M-audio: Sinamex.
In the workstation range - Korg: Triton, Roland: Fantom, Yamaha: Motif.
What I meant is that if you want a workstation, you may want to consider getting a controller keyboard (one without any sounds built-in) and a notebook. The notebook will serve as a sequencer and external sound source. This will be the best way to carry things around for a gig - lightest. Workstations are not light.
If you want to go for weighted workstations, do know that only 88 keys comes weighted. Anything less are not. So cost will escalate.
Best way is to try them out for yourself. Korg: City Music, Roland: Swee Lee, Yamaha: Yamaha.
Oh, and M-audio: Sinamex.
Cheez
Moderator
Oops, I was slightly wrong. For workstations - all weighted keyboards are 88 keys. Anything less than 88 keys will not be weighted.
However for MIDI CONTROLLERS - I just found out that Fatar has a new 49 key controller (VMK-149) that is weighted (the first one ever). Also has 9 sliders and 8 buttons. Also comes with aftertouch (which the Keystation does not have). Also have USB connection to PC.
They also have a 88-key version (VMK-188) - also new.
The only crazy thing they did is to have a joystick for a mod wheel/ pitch bend. Why on earth did they do that for???
And, as with all Fatar keyboards, they are not cheap. But you pay for the good hammer action keys.
But in my opinion, it makes no sense to have a 49-key weighted keyboard. We want weighted keyboards to emulate the real piano - and we can't play a real piano with only 49 keys. I hope Fatar has done their homework in marketing - otherwise the 49 key controller is probably not going to sell.
However for MIDI CONTROLLERS - I just found out that Fatar has a new 49 key controller (VMK-149) that is weighted (the first one ever). Also has 9 sliders and 8 buttons. Also comes with aftertouch (which the Keystation does not have). Also have USB connection to PC.
They also have a 88-key version (VMK-188) - also new.
The only crazy thing they did is to have a joystick for a mod wheel/ pitch bend. Why on earth did they do that for???
And, as with all Fatar keyboards, they are not cheap. But you pay for the good hammer action keys.
But in my opinion, it makes no sense to have a 49-key weighted keyboard. We want weighted keyboards to emulate the real piano - and we can't play a real piano with only 49 keys. I hope Fatar has done their homework in marketing - otherwise the 49 key controller is probably not going to sell.
DoubleBlade
New member
i'm getting a bit confused here...what's the difference between a midi controller and a workstation? i understand there are some differences in it , do u mind explaining it?
waiting to study music tech in La Salle SIA so i tot i might as well ask u this question... :lol:
waiting to study music tech in La Salle SIA so i tot i might as well ask u this question... :lol:
i've been searching far and wide, for that 'perfect' keyboard without holding back on how much i'm willing to spend. i'm convinced that even with money, there's no such thing as the 'perfect' keyboard.. those that sound great have lousy action. those that have good action are too heavy to carry aroundl those that are lightweight feels like crap. Those that have everything in one just do a damn bad job. Sigh. Until someone invents that perfect lightweight 88 key piano weighted that sounds damn good, i'm sticking to using the damn lousy studio ones. sigh.
DoubleBlade
New member
alright since my audition/interview is during mid march , i might as well bombared myself wif info on music tech.well at least the basic stuffs so dat i can impress the lecturer and show him i'm really worthy of the course...
okay another dumb question a sound engineer would laugh at his apprentice...what is a sampler?
will be waiting for ur next post bongman :smt002
okay another dumb question a sound engineer would laugh at his apprentice...what is a sampler?
will be waiting for ur next post bongman :smt002
DoubleBlade
New member
Silencer said:
i guess it's all in the marketing strategy that these manufacturers adopt.
if u create the "perfect" keyboard which i think any company can do with the right amount of resource given , there will probably be little opportunities for the company to recreate history by showcasing their "next generation of perfect keyboards" to the masses and hoping to earn even more revenue as compared to their 1st generation of perfect keyboards.
if u had a "perfect" keyboard , would u want to buy another new and improved version for instance the 2nd generation of perfect keyboards? after all , u already have the "perfect" keyboard that suits ur needs.so why would u buy another "perfect" keyboard if u already have one rite?
the same goes for PCs.did u know that Bill Gate's PC is at least 100 times faster than our average PCs.the fastest PC on the market runs on a 3+ GB processor.if bill gates were to release his supercomputer to the global market , yes he can expect huge money to start flowing in by the second but one thing's for sure , it will only be a hit and run success for him.if he released a 300GB processor PC and later releases a 300.1GB processor PC over a course of 6 months....do u think bill gates would enjoy the same amount of success as wad he gained when he released the 300GB processor PC?
it all boils down to the basic concept of business and that is marketing strategies.it's always better to release a new and improved model of a product at a slow (in fact very slow) pace so as to keep a steady income coming into the company although their technology may be 10-20 years ahead of the latest synth to hit the stores....
i'm not surprised if Roland , Korg or Yamaha may already have developed a "super synth" but choose not to due to financial reasons.
bongman
New member
sampler?
you can read more about sampler and sampling from this:
http://wwww.yamahasynth.com/products/a5000/shb.pdf
you can read more about sampler and sampling from this:
http://wwww.yamahasynth.com/products/a5000/shb.pdf
Cheez
Moderator
Bongman already gave you the answers. Basically, like what Bongman said, a sampler is a machine that loads samples for playback. A sample is a recorded sound from an instrument(s) and could be either multisamples(sample of each note played on an instrument) or a phrase or loop. This way, you get the sound that is closest to the original source as the wav file played back is what is recorded - so the sample is only as good as the recorded wav. These wav, after being loaded, can be further edited like any synthesizer sounds with the usual parameters.
Nowadays, we hardly use hardware samplers for a few reasons - they are bulky, they are expensive, they are very limited in the number of samples they can load (depends on the amount of RAM built-in), they take a long time to load a sample, and many more reasons. Software sampling is now the way to go because: RAM is larger (up to 2 GB in PCs nowadays) - translate to ability to load more samples, less expensive, as bulky as your PC or notebook, take a very short time to load a sample from a hard-drive, high polyphony count (nowadays, up to 600 notes polyphony is possible), more flexible and easier to use.
Anyway, that's not your original question. People usually get a workstation to have everything in one - they want to play music, they want to sequence music (basic 2 things). You will find that sequencing is better done on a PC than on a keyboard - saves you lots of time.
Back to some basic definitions:
1. Keyboard - any instrument with black and white keys (that is, except the computer keyboard
)
2. Synthesizers - an electronic keyboard that generate synthesized sounds which can be edited down to their core (their waveform etc) and manipulated. They can be digital or analog, or combination of both.
3. Digital Pianos - an electronic keyboard that basically try to emulate a real piano by having a real piano touch. Usually only have basic sounds which usually cannot be edited or programmed. A new name nowadays are "Stage Pianos" (used by Roland) which are basically digital pianos with more functions added into it - supposed to give the keyboardist everything they need to perform "on stage" (hence the name).
4. Midi controller (as bongman already explained) - as the name implies, it "controls" midi devices. A midi controller keyboard is therefore a keyboard that basically sends midi signals out to a sound source - which can be another keyboard (synthesizer etc), a sound module, a PC etc. It therefore has no build-in sounds (older models do have basic sounds, but that is not their main purpose or strength).
5. Workstation - rojak that tries to put everything together into one.
Nowadays, we hardly use hardware samplers for a few reasons - they are bulky, they are expensive, they are very limited in the number of samples they can load (depends on the amount of RAM built-in), they take a long time to load a sample, and many more reasons. Software sampling is now the way to go because: RAM is larger (up to 2 GB in PCs nowadays) - translate to ability to load more samples, less expensive, as bulky as your PC or notebook, take a very short time to load a sample from a hard-drive, high polyphony count (nowadays, up to 600 notes polyphony is possible), more flexible and easier to use.
Anyway, that's not your original question. People usually get a workstation to have everything in one - they want to play music, they want to sequence music (basic 2 things). You will find that sequencing is better done on a PC than on a keyboard - saves you lots of time.
Back to some basic definitions:
1. Keyboard - any instrument with black and white keys (that is, except the computer keyboard
)2. Synthesizers - an electronic keyboard that generate synthesized sounds which can be edited down to their core (their waveform etc) and manipulated. They can be digital or analog, or combination of both.
3. Digital Pianos - an electronic keyboard that basically try to emulate a real piano by having a real piano touch. Usually only have basic sounds which usually cannot be edited or programmed. A new name nowadays are "Stage Pianos" (used by Roland) which are basically digital pianos with more functions added into it - supposed to give the keyboardist everything they need to perform "on stage" (hence the name).
4. Midi controller (as bongman already explained) - as the name implies, it "controls" midi devices. A midi controller keyboard is therefore a keyboard that basically sends midi signals out to a sound source - which can be another keyboard (synthesizer etc), a sound module, a PC etc. It therefore has no build-in sounds (older models do have basic sounds, but that is not their main purpose or strength).
5. Workstation - rojak that tries to put everything together into one.
Cheez
Moderator
Silencer said:
You're right! And I believe that there will never be a perfect one. There's also a lot of personal preferences that goes into the equation which makes the "perfect keyboard" impossible - unless one can customise make a keyboard (88 keys from Yamaha S90, some sounds from Triton and some orchestral sounds from Roland, FM sounds from Yamaha (especially DX), Analog sounds from Moog, software sampler built-in from GigaStudio or Kontakt, built-in software sequencer that runs on build-in PC with a large LCD screen (with lots of RAM and a fast processor), fast hard-drives for recording and sample streaming, lots of motorised faders and knobs for midi controlling, drawbars for organ playing, weigh 20kg and cost less than $5000). And to complete it - the ability to transport the keyboard easily by building it into a flight case like Doepfer. :lol:
Even with this, you still can't be perfect! 88 weighted keys from Yamaha is not good for organ playing! So perhaps we need to make it a 2-tier keyboard - lower tier 88 keys from Yamaha and upper tier unweighted 76 keys from Roland with aftertouch. And STILL weight about 20kg! :lol:
SoNiCbRaT
New member
Bro... from experience, if you want to gig, I suggest not getting a 88 key workstation. But if you insist, then it's a good thing to have (if you have the transport, flight case, etc for it)... why? Pratical logistic reasons... it's darn heavy... my Korg Triton weighs 40 kg... I usually call for a regular lorry pick up to come pick up my equipments for performances and gigs.. if you want to gig regularly, I suggest a smaller workstation... but if you want to play comfortably (like a pianist rather than a keyboardist or synthesist) then an 88 key will be the right investment... just live with the weight and carrying around thats all...
A synthesizer workstation has sound modules within them and each synthesizer workstation has their specialized function (type of synthesis - FM, subtractive, additive, sample-based, pcm, wavetables, virtual modular, semi-modular, etc)... a workstation will have it's dedicated effects bank, mixer, sequencer, etc... usually used for arrangements... It has midi/usb to control other gears as well... Some of the workstation has a sampler built in... what does it do? You can sample sounds or load sounds and assign to keys... say if I sample (record) a sound into the keyboard say sound of a bunch of keys ringing... ok so that's on sample... we find the pitch of that particular sample.. then load it into the workstation and assign to various keys and pitches... now you have a newly self-designed sound of your own... and use it in your music. You can further add on effects chains or filter it etc... to come up with a unique sound in your mix...
A midi controller have no sound module (usually)... the new Akai 49 midi controller has sounds... the smaller keyboards like xiosynths used for table top controller has synth modules as well... but strictly, a midi controller keyboard is a dummy... used to activate sounds from other racked modules or software synths/sounds... this is done using midi messages...
A sampler is somwhat like what I had mentioned earlier... basically a sampler is a racked sound recorder that can be interfaced with softwares or a synthesizer workstation and even midi controllers... you record a sound into the sampler, assigned it to keys and pitch or use it as percussive sounds... you can edit the wave content and add on effects... designing your own sounds from it... and save it as a sound module of your own. Some dedicated gears like the AKAI MPC is a sampler dedicated to "finger drumming"... you can sample sounds into it and assign as loops or one-shot triggered sound. It can do sequencing and stuff but using a sample based concept rather than a synthesizer. This is however, different from M-audios trigger finger and KORG padKONTROL... they are just midi controllers... with no sampling function. However, you can use softwares that does samples with the trigger finger of padKONTROL to use it like a "finger drumming" machine of sorts... At this stage, I think from what you are asking, it's best you don't get a sampler first...
You can google to read more... we can't really say much here... do some research and it will help you along the way.
Warmest
A synthesizer workstation has sound modules within them and each synthesizer workstation has their specialized function (type of synthesis - FM, subtractive, additive, sample-based, pcm, wavetables, virtual modular, semi-modular, etc)... a workstation will have it's dedicated effects bank, mixer, sequencer, etc... usually used for arrangements... It has midi/usb to control other gears as well... Some of the workstation has a sampler built in... what does it do? You can sample sounds or load sounds and assign to keys... say if I sample (record) a sound into the keyboard say sound of a bunch of keys ringing... ok so that's on sample... we find the pitch of that particular sample.. then load it into the workstation and assign to various keys and pitches... now you have a newly self-designed sound of your own... and use it in your music. You can further add on effects chains or filter it etc... to come up with a unique sound in your mix...
A midi controller have no sound module (usually)... the new Akai 49 midi controller has sounds... the smaller keyboards like xiosynths used for table top controller has synth modules as well... but strictly, a midi controller keyboard is a dummy... used to activate sounds from other racked modules or software synths/sounds... this is done using midi messages...
A sampler is somwhat like what I had mentioned earlier... basically a sampler is a racked sound recorder that can be interfaced with softwares or a synthesizer workstation and even midi controllers... you record a sound into the sampler, assigned it to keys and pitch or use it as percussive sounds... you can edit the wave content and add on effects... designing your own sounds from it... and save it as a sound module of your own. Some dedicated gears like the AKAI MPC is a sampler dedicated to "finger drumming"... you can sample sounds into it and assign as loops or one-shot triggered sound. It can do sequencing and stuff but using a sample based concept rather than a synthesizer. This is however, different from M-audios trigger finger and KORG padKONTROL... they are just midi controllers... with no sampling function. However, you can use softwares that does samples with the trigger finger of padKONTROL to use it like a "finger drumming" machine of sorts... At this stage, I think from what you are asking, it's best you don't get a sampler first...
You can google to read more... we can't really say much here... do some research and it will help you along the way.
Warmest
sonicbratz!!! ....
when i asked my friend about job,
she mention about darren ng .... and ask whether i know him ...
i was like, erm ... no =)
then!! she told me to google it ....
and the revelation!!!! It's YOU!!! sonicBRATZ!!! .... aahahahaha =)
hi man ...... ur work is awesome ...
i wanna create something litat also ..... =)
when i asked my friend about job,
she mention about darren ng .... and ask whether i know him ...
i was like, erm ... no =)
then!! she told me to google it ....
and the revelation!!!! It's YOU!!! sonicBRATZ!!! .... aahahahaha =)
hi man ...... ur work is awesome ...
i wanna create something litat also ..... =)
SoNiCbRaT
New member
Alamak... Bong... sonicbrat must minus "super"... me normal normal... I made a boo boo of myself haha din check the date of post. Shooo franie...
Thanks Pianoex!... eh? Who ish the person who mentioned me to you? What job are you looking for? Me just have fun with music like everybody else. Thank you fro your encouragements.
Thanks Pianoex!... eh? Who ish the person who mentioned me to you? What job are you looking for? Me just have fun with music like everybody else.
Thank you fro your encouragements.