Ultrasound @ The Arts House Chamber 13 July 12noon to 10.30pm

[zax]

My opinion

Hello everyone ,
I play guitars for a local band called Shotgunstart and when we started out last year it was with this rockon/ultrasound gigs . Thing is that there are many views and opinions on it . When we started out giging the band didn't have contacts at all or rather it was very limited . Having played at a few of the shows organised by Nick we've gained stage experience by giging with other new bands and shared feedback and suggestions about each other , It is a great platform for bands to start out with and experiment . During the course of those shows , we met quite a number of people that helped us along the way . We've also seen how bands can suck so much that everybody just leaves the room(yes its that bad) we've also seen some really awesome bands with loads of potential to go far
So here are my suggestions

1) Treat it like a really expensive jamming session with a crowd but keep in mind , how long can your friends keep paying to see you play unless you guys are really that good and new people want to come to your shows

2) after a few shows or whenever your band is ready PLEASE MOVE ON , don't get all angry over it , if your music is good people are bound to notice you and offer help .

3) Make loads of friends , don't be arrogant cause bands need all the help and support they can get and the people that you accidentally or sometimes with pun intended offend might actually be the key personal that can link you to important people .

4) If you don't like the idea of paying to play then don't (i don't)

5) He makes you sign a contract so technically if you don't pay ,logically he can take you to court

6) Complaining doesn't get you anywhere

7) your band obviously has to have standards before you move on

thats about it guys , pm me if you want any advice and i'll do whatever is within my means to help provided your not a screamo/emo trashy band haha and actually play decent stuff

 

[myner]

Just for the record, after playing your first gig with them, did you have any hard feelings about having to make the ticket sales?

Btw, we're not just making empty comments to some how gain sympathy.
We are stepping up to the organiser and demanding action.
This is not just a complaint.
This is a means of public awareness.

 

[zax]

nope , its part and parcel of life i guess . I mean honestly i have no affiliations with Nick but we took that money as an investment i guess . Public awareness yeah but people are not dumb either , i'm sure they can weigh the good and bad points out for themselves

 

[myner]

okay... if thats helps you sleep at night.
with all being said, lets see how well this gig goes.

 

[Rockon]

Almost every gig i see such comments.

We are a coperate entity which means we have to profit.

I have said this countless of times over the past 1 and half years.

I believe in large numbers attending our gigs. Even with the current system it doesn't even look too good during the peak hours. We understand that some bands have problems selling the tickets but most have no problem. We have already reduced it from 30 tixs at dxo to 25 at arts by increasing the hours of the gig. We even now have a membership program to allow bands to sell 20 tixs. All bands out there, do consider what the rest have mention and decide if this gig is right for you.

As you mention about the equipment, I admit it was poor checking on my part when the equipment was delievered. As soon as i was aware i informed them to deliever a double pedal but in the meantime i had to resort borrowing from them.

Please feel free to continue this discussion. Anyone willing to co organise a gig without making bands sell tickets pls contact me. I can show u what i experienced in the past if the bands dont help you.

 

[zax]

okay... if thats helps you sleep at night.
with all being said, lets see how well this gig goes.

dude the gig will go on fine . Chillax . And sometimes bands are so bad they cant get gigs and are desperate so this is they're way out i guess

 

[LadyInTears]

well i know that im not going, the amps there suck
and the wires were faulty. luckily i brought my own

 

[shitface92]

dude,if the band suck asss at least the have talent and willing to try for expriance.reflect urself dude.no offence though.

 

[Tharenii]

hey! shotgun start! i know you! we played a show in tel megido (however you spell it). I am the guitarist of Deus Ex Machina.

This is not a complain la.... its public awareness. Speaking for the bands who were struggling outside to sell the tickets.... We sold our 25 and had more people coming. We just passed the tickets to the other bands even though we dont know them! I am sure there are loads of organisers that can bring a crowd without making use of the band. 2 examples, Deafcon and Rock Unity. They had good ways of bringing the message across and telling "hey there is a killer gig here.... we have a mix of great bands and upcoming bands"

Bro... maybe you have the financial means of paying up but many bands out there do not. Money is actually a very sensitive issue. And if bands are really so bad they shouldnt play a gig. They should firstly think about what embarrassment they'd face. I am not saying that my band is great, though we did play a good set i found it pointless as i was just playing to people i know and others whom i dont know. It did give us a small exposure but real exposure is when you play to a crowd where only handful are your friends and the rest are just unknown people that come to watch the GIG. I did stay and watch and supported every band there, not everyone thinks the same.

There you have it... singapore scene at ur face!

 

[Freeflowclass]

when will this whole thing end balls?
your band no good noone know you you expect people to pay for a place to give you a chance to play? your band has no rep new band you expect people to invite you to play for a gig?

there are over 300 bands on myspace that are locally unsigned, with 3/4 of them being new bands. yet expecting people to recognise you is a totally negligence on your part.

by having this, is to give an opportunity to let you play, to get more fans. and really honestly, if bringing in a crowd of 25 is not possible, you either need to make more friends or improve your music or maybe change a choice of interest.

people like you guys are having the mindset of a musician that has already made it. Ask the local bands that have made it how they started out. I know one band that had to beg for gigs. BEG. and here people are giving you a chance to play. Example, WhatLah! does ticket sellng too and his gigs has been a success. so does many other gigs. i dont see why you guys are so biased over this.


anyway no matter how many times anyone tries to explain nthing's gonna change. so this is the last time as I an organiser myself will ever mention this. maybe some of you just need to wake up and start to see where your music is bringing you and whether you should just sit and do nothing about it.

if you guys like to complain and seem so witty about all these, go organise your own gig and see if it actually seems to easy.

naomi

 

[RyanJ]

Almost every gig i see such comments.

We are a coperate entity which means we have to profit.

I have said this countless of times over the past 1 and half years.

I believe in large numbers attending our gigs. Even with the current system it doesn't even look too good during the peak hours. We understand that some bands have problems selling the tickets but most have no problem. We have already reduced it from 30 tixs at dxo to 25 at arts by increasing the hours of the gig. We even now have a membership program to allow bands to sell 20 tixs. All bands out there, do consider what the rest have mention and decide if this gig is right for you.

As you mention about the equipment, I admit it was poor checking on my part when the equipment was delievered. As soon as i was aware i informed them to deliever a double pedal but in the meantime i had to resort borrowing from them.

Please feel free to continue this discussion. Anyone willing to co organise a gig without making bands sell tickets pls contact me. I can show u what i experienced in the past if the bands dont help you.

Rockon,

It has been done. I myself have done so twice. We allocated tickets to bands, but did not force them to sell a minimum of x number of tickets, just asked them to do so as a favour.
Also, they were paid, not in money, but with at least 2 jugs of beer per band, or soft drinks, which once I forked out for every band, including mine.

My band has been approached to sell tickets, and we always do so, but we sell what we can. Its already good enough many bands to NOT get paid. If its 2bucks per ticket sold, the band gets 50 bucks, thats great. But instead of forcing the bands to do so, just give them a bunch and ask them to do so. the scene here already is small as it is, and people know each other.

It is difficult to organise shows, but you could ask the bands to help put up posters and flyers, and myspace banners, facebook etc. As the organiser its your responsibility.. and yes I have done it myself., but if you ask bands nicely, I'm sure they would help. I just did so for the last gig my band played in, helping the organiser put up posters.

As for being a profit organisation, most are, but then again, if you want profits, do something about. Advertising properly with posters, flyers etc is one way of making gigs bigger and better. at least 2 months notice so people know. setup email lists. having a membership for bands, where they sell have to sell 20 tickets to play instead of 25 is ridiculous. If the band sold 12, and would not top up cash for the rest of the unsold tickets, which by right they should not, would they still be allowed to play, or next time they will not be allowed to play. And think about the bands, they also have to rehearse, spend money to travel to sell tickets sometimes, and also what about other costs they themselves bear. If this organisation is for-profit, then do something that makes your profit roll in and also keeps bands happy.

remember playing for free and helping sell tickets is a favour. think about advertising the hell out of your shows

 

[Rockon]

I agree with your reply.

I am now in talks to reduce the ticket amount to a low minimum. This will be an experiement for future gigs.

The selling price will not be lowered but pls feel free to comment how many tickets is a fair and highly possible amount to be sold.

Bands who have already signed up will be informed of the decision by monday.

 

[myner]

and what about equipment wise?

 

[RyanJ]

when will this whole thing end balls?
your band no good noone know you you expect people to pay for a place to give you a chance to play? your band has no rep new band you expect people to invite you to play for a gig?

there are over 300 bands on myspace that are locally unsigned, with 3/4 of them being new bands. yet expecting people to recognise you is a totally negligence on your part.

by having this, is to give an opportunity to let you play, to get more fans. and really honestly, if bringing in a crowd of 25 is not possible, you either need to make more friends or improve your music or maybe change a choice of interest.

people like you guys are having the mindset of a musician that has already made it. Ask the local bands that have made it how they started out. I know one band that had to beg for gigs. BEG. and here people are giving you a chance to play. Example, WhatLah! does ticket sellng too and his gigs has been a success. so does many other gigs. i dont see why you guys are so biased over this.


anyway no matter how many times anyone tries to explain nthing's gonna change. so this is the last time as I an organiser myself will ever mention this. maybe some of you just need to wake up and start to see where your music is bringing you and whether you should just sit and do nothing about it.

if you guys like to complain and seem so witty about all these, go organise your own gig and see if it actually seems to easy.

naomi

Just a quick point on yours.
1) If the bands are no good, and you know they are not and you want to organise a gig, why let them play in the first place. Is it because they know they have no platform to do so and therefore need to pay to play?

2)What about bands who have released demo's / albums / ep's? Do they also need to pay to play even if they have been playing for several years?

It is not easy to organise a gig everyone knows that ( ok maybe not everyone ) but then again, what about the more established bands? they refuse to pay to play. help sell tickets yes, but what about paying them? Or give them cheaper drinks, or something as appreciation? Even the smaller ones - 5 packs of chicken rice is not bad, and believe it has happened before!! lol. Heck, I;ve even asked organisers to let us play.

If you want a successful, gig, get the more established bands who already have a regular or at least a small following. Thats a start don't you think? There are so many now such as Cigarette Sex, AOTS, TKS, Withered Tree, Ethereal, Xanadoo, oshiego etc. Ask them. You never know . Heck, ask us as well ..lol

Also, venues are important. And equipment. It is expensive, but if bands are not forced to sell tickets, then the organiser can ask for help. Many studios and cd stores have helped in the past, selling tix and putting up posters / flyers to promote gigs. Get them in on the action as support.

Just my other 2 cents worth

Ryan

MySpace.com - D.E.M - Singapore - Metal / Death Metal - www.myspace.com/demsg

 

[RyanJ]

I agree with your reply.

I am now in talks to reduce the ticket amount to a low minimum. This will be an experiement for future gigs.

The selling price will not be lowered but pls feel free to comment how many tickets is a fair and highly possible amount to be sold.

Bands who have already signed up will be informed of the decision by monday.

I'd say maybe 10-15? without being forced? oh and yeah what equipment will there be? And also any slots still open?

Ryan

MySpace.com - D.E.M - Singapore - Metal / Death Metal - www.myspace.com/demsg

 

[Rockon]

It is not forced. It is an agreement.

I have already changed my source for music equipment.

The list of equipment will be sent by wednesday.

Currently there at 15 slots left. 6 Slots taken up by regulars.

 

[zax]

hey! shotgun start! i know you! we played a show in tel megido (however you spell it). I am the guitarist of Deus Ex Machina.

This is not a complain la.... its public awareness. Speaking for the bands who were struggling outside to sell the tickets.... We sold our 25 and had more people coming. We just passed the tickets to the other bands even though we dont know them! I am sure there are loads of organisers that can bring a crowd without making use of the band. 2 examples, Deafcon and Rock Unity. They had good ways of bringing the message across and telling "hey there is a killer gig here.... we have a mix of great bands and upcoming bands"

Bro... maybe you have the financial means of paying up but many bands out there do not. Money is actually a very sensitive issue. And if bands are really so bad they shouldnt play a gig. They should firstly think about what embarrassment they'd face. I am not saying that my band is great, though we did play a good set i found it pointless as i was just playing to people i know and others whom i dont know. It did give us a small exposure but real exposure is when you play to a crowd where only handful are your friends and the rest are just unknown people that come to watch the GIG. I did stay and watch and supported every band there, not everyone thinks the same.

There you have it... singapore scene at ur face!

Hey man , yeah you guys kicked ass that gig . Made me wanna give up guitar right there and then hahah yeah money is a sensitive issue haha and bad bands still appear at gigs for the sake of playing a show , they also improve a little that way . I know what it feels like to play to like majority friends and a small portion are randm people cause we've had our fare share of that , later on as the band progresses more people actually turn up for your shows(partially because of the organiser as well) .

Anyway the local scene isnt huge to lets support good music , as for this topic of paying to play . Lets leave it entirely up to the bands to decide .

 

[zax]

Agree with Naomi , about the part where you can't expect to be recognised if you're a new band . I guess that takes time and the right contacts and hugely on what the band can deliver . We all need platforms and Ultrasound is a good place to step on , bands will outgrow this stage anyway

 

[BleedsNoMore]

i tink this ticket selling thing is bullshit.. ok just a little insight, if u dun wana lose money in gig making for new organizers..

1) get a cheaper venue/equipment.
2)if LET'S SAY the venue/equipment, printing of tickets etc. would cost ard 1k, INVEST(if u dunwana invest, DON'T EVEN START! coz if things f*ck up, u got no one else to blame but urself)
3)then gauge the number of people attending.
4)if u gauge ard 300 or whatever the amount, then gauge how much the tickets is to be sold.. eg. (1000(money invested) / 300(people attending) = $3++)
and if u want sum profit to return to urself, den increase the ticket price to a dollar or two..
5)PROMOTE THE GIG!(some organizers i've seen and experienced, dun even promote their own gigs, and expects the bands to sell all the tickets for him, so he can pay for the venue.. me no mentions name)

well, these aren't exact figures, but i'm sure it won't make u lose that much.. and the main important thing, is to set things straight, what is ur purpose.. for the good of our local scene, i assume?

i've experienced this(me and my friends organized By The Kids For The Kids gig last year, it went great! ahaha), and i dun wish to act like Mr.Know-It-All, but i guess i'v seen enough people in the same misery all the time..

 

[BleedsNoMore]

just to add on, as much as we all in soft tease guyrence for his talking(AHAH!), his series of gigs didn't experience compulsory ticket sales, like whatlah, playstoprewind and i guess there are many others.. just my 2cents worth.. Cheers!