syahysteria
New member
Wow, really? This whole issue still exists? Honestly, I didn't read the whole thread, a friend gave me a link to this, and it saddens me. AND, forgive me if I repeat anything that you have all mentioned before. This thread is probably collecting dust already, but I do feel the need to reply.
I support what Joseph (dearxarson) said. Keep on doing what you do.
Stop complaining. There were so many gigs out there that didn't require p2p, and yet there wasn't a turn up. Sometimes the bands that're supposed to play don't turn up.
Complain all you want, you're wasting your time. That time could be used to make more music about your frustration on not being able to play without playing. Talk less, act more.
It's simple. Start from the basics.
If you can't get your own shows and don't want to pay (because it seems trending that shows are p2p, or not, whatever it is), and don't know how to make your own shows, then GO to shows, make friends. And if they really are good friends, they'd listen to your music when you tell them your MySpace page, and they'll try to rope you in for shows.
If you figured that all your friends won't help, then you're in the wrong crowd.
And darling bands, if you really wanted to do music and want to get out there, I REALLY don't understand why you'd want to go against the range of organisers that are there for you to get your music out. It's Singapore, it's the world, everything revolves around money.
If you have a lot of supporters, and want to make your own show, then by all means, do it. But trust me, if you're doing this out of angst and not wanting to pay say...what, $50 for a show? then you'd realise you might just be paying more/end up in debt.
Let me explain.
Pay To Play:
you pay a range of $30-50? idk, never really got around to know that. If you split with your band members, each person probably pays around $10.
Getting your own show:
Venue, assuming you're doing a Saturday show at Blackhole with 7 bands, each with 40 min slot including set up. Honestly, anything more than 7 bands is tiring for the audience (IMO).
$120x5 hours = $600
You need to get your show out there. So let's just say you do a blast of posters, have it everywhere.
Printing cost + lamination + cable ties/landyard= $50 (assumption)
That makes $650. So if you say this is a band to band effort, you're splitting with 7 bands.
$650/7=$92.85=$95.
Say your show goes on. Risks you have to take:
1) Bands pulling out on you. You end up covering the cost they were supposed to cover.
2) You don't know who's in charge. Everyone's in charge because everyone paid. Friends turn enemies. Sounds lame? Trust me, this happens. I've seen the closest friends not even wanting to see eye to eye at a common show like Baybeats because of these things.
3) There are such things like hidden costs. Anything can happen. So everyone paid, right? "So where are there extra things to pay for? Are you trying to cheat for my money?" Heard it before.
4) There is no turn up. So technically, you didn't earn back what you gave. The only people watching are the other bands, and honestly, some of them look like they don't even care. OR, even better, these people you think are your friends, stay outside for a smoke while you're playing in front of 3 people. OR BETTER, you have friends who are not bands, they come for the show, they don't pay, and they don't watch. Just to, you know, "show face"?
5) Say everything goes on well. You start to ponder. You're doing the same thing as you did when you P2P. Selling tickets, help market the show, play to same crowd over and over. Even worst, you might be doing more. Things you never thought you'd had to do. "Where is this band? Why are they late? WHAT? STILL AT HOME?" or "Where is the sound guy? Do you know the sound guy?" or as simple as "So who's going to handle door money?"
After all that, you figure that even if it feels worth it, you're just telling yourself that it is. THINK about it.
If you think that just because you're in a band, you're the only one struggling, well, you're wrong.
If you reaaaaaaaaaaaaally don't want to pay, find organisers that are willing to negotiate how much they'll pay you. If you are being approached, ask them how they're going to pay. Don't bug them, but do give suggestions like, "split profits". Analise how much they set the door tickets to, and try to round up the number of people that are there (don't include bands playing) to watch the show, do the rough math so that you know they're not laughing their way to the bank.
If you're band is a touring band, then maybe you can even set a price to how much you want the organisers to pay you.
Honestly, even if you p2p, organisers don't normally break even. Why go through the headache of thinking about the money, when all you can do is give a few bucks (or many) to play a show?
I am not saying that you should put a stop to whatever you are doing, in fact, there are a few (keyword: FEW) band to band organisers that are successful, namely Slaughter House Massacre. That was one successful one, and it didn't even rise from a complain of paying to play. They just did it for music.
If your band to band effort works, then good for you. Keep doing it. But do remember that once you get comfortable doing shows on your own, your music MIGHT (keyword: MIGHT) slow down, because then people would start to know you as a show organiser because you stand out. People will start going at you for being a successful organiser, and start to do a band to band effort all over again.
The cycle repeats.
Thanks for reading anyways.
I support what Joseph (dearxarson) said. Keep on doing what you do.
Stop complaining. There were so many gigs out there that didn't require p2p, and yet there wasn't a turn up. Sometimes the bands that're supposed to play don't turn up.
Complain all you want, you're wasting your time. That time could be used to make more music about your frustration on not being able to play without playing. Talk less, act more.
It's simple. Start from the basics.
If you can't get your own shows and don't want to pay (because it seems trending that shows are p2p, or not, whatever it is), and don't know how to make your own shows, then GO to shows, make friends. And if they really are good friends, they'd listen to your music when you tell them your MySpace page, and they'll try to rope you in for shows.
If you figured that all your friends won't help, then you're in the wrong crowd.
And darling bands, if you really wanted to do music and want to get out there, I REALLY don't understand why you'd want to go against the range of organisers that are there for you to get your music out. It's Singapore, it's the world, everything revolves around money.
If you have a lot of supporters, and want to make your own show, then by all means, do it. But trust me, if you're doing this out of angst and not wanting to pay say...what, $50 for a show? then you'd realise you might just be paying more/end up in debt.
Let me explain.
Pay To Play:
you pay a range of $30-50? idk, never really got around to know that. If you split with your band members, each person probably pays around $10.
Getting your own show:
Venue, assuming you're doing a Saturday show at Blackhole with 7 bands, each with 40 min slot including set up. Honestly, anything more than 7 bands is tiring for the audience (IMO).
$120x5 hours = $600
You need to get your show out there. So let's just say you do a blast of posters, have it everywhere.
Printing cost + lamination + cable ties/landyard= $50 (assumption)
That makes $650. So if you say this is a band to band effort, you're splitting with 7 bands.
$650/7=$92.85=$95.
Say your show goes on. Risks you have to take:
1) Bands pulling out on you. You end up covering the cost they were supposed to cover.
2) You don't know who's in charge. Everyone's in charge because everyone paid. Friends turn enemies. Sounds lame? Trust me, this happens. I've seen the closest friends not even wanting to see eye to eye at a common show like Baybeats because of these things.
3) There are such things like hidden costs. Anything can happen. So everyone paid, right? "So where are there extra things to pay for? Are you trying to cheat for my money?" Heard it before.
4) There is no turn up. So technically, you didn't earn back what you gave. The only people watching are the other bands, and honestly, some of them look like they don't even care. OR, even better, these people you think are your friends, stay outside for a smoke while you're playing in front of 3 people. OR BETTER, you have friends who are not bands, they come for the show, they don't pay, and they don't watch. Just to, you know, "show face"?
5) Say everything goes on well. You start to ponder. You're doing the same thing as you did when you P2P. Selling tickets, help market the show, play to same crowd over and over. Even worst, you might be doing more. Things you never thought you'd had to do. "Where is this band? Why are they late? WHAT? STILL AT HOME?" or "Where is the sound guy? Do you know the sound guy?" or as simple as "So who's going to handle door money?"
After all that, you figure that even if it feels worth it, you're just telling yourself that it is. THINK about it.
If you think that just because you're in a band, you're the only one struggling, well, you're wrong.
If you reaaaaaaaaaaaaally don't want to pay, find organisers that are willing to negotiate how much they'll pay you. If you are being approached, ask them how they're going to pay. Don't bug them, but do give suggestions like, "split profits". Analise how much they set the door tickets to, and try to round up the number of people that are there (don't include bands playing) to watch the show, do the rough math so that you know they're not laughing their way to the bank.
If you're band is a touring band, then maybe you can even set a price to how much you want the organisers to pay you.
Honestly, even if you p2p, organisers don't normally break even. Why go through the headache of thinking about the money, when all you can do is give a few bucks (or many) to play a show?
I am not saying that you should put a stop to whatever you are doing, in fact, there are a few (keyword: FEW) band to band organisers that are successful, namely Slaughter House Massacre. That was one successful one, and it didn't even rise from a complain of paying to play. They just did it for music.
If your band to band effort works, then good for you. Keep doing it. But do remember that once you get comfortable doing shows on your own, your music MIGHT (keyword: MIGHT) slow down, because then people would start to know you as a show organiser because you stand out. People will start going at you for being a successful organiser, and start to do a band to band effort all over again.
The cycle repeats.
Thanks for reading anyways.
