the scene- good or bad?

visa

New member
I love local music and I've always wanted to add value to it, to leave the scene better off than when i got into it. What i grew to think was that there are two elements, quality and quantity. How much it impacts people, and how many people it impacts. The more people you impact and the deeper the impression you leave, the more local music makes its mark, and the better it is for us all!

What I've recently come to realise though, is that there is positive impact and negative impact. What's the point if the whole country knows about local music, if they think we're all smokers, druggies and school dropouts?

By actively sharing music and putting music in a positive light and making it a socially positive thing, you will make the scene a better place.

Sometimes glam rock bands like glamourizing booze and smoking and stuff. It's hard enough getting people to support music for quality, much less getting people to appreciate it for musical value when they see all the social crap that comes with it.

It sucks to be drinking every day, getting blasted and having memory loss, and at the end of the day you get dependent on it as a form of perpetual escapism. It's a great way to be irresponsible, but it still screws you up and all your friends too.

We don't want to tell people what to do or what not to do, but we do want people to take care of themselves. People don't need to be uber healthy or whatever, but everything in moderation, and there's nothing glamorous about being a drunk or smelling like cigarettes all the time.

If we can all just encourage each other to promote music by focusing on doing things that promote social well-being instead of promoting mindless "Rebellion without cause because we are rockstars who're different and badass", we do something positive. Not just for lcoal music but for our society, our friends, our families.

You don't want your little sister or your girlfriend turning into a chain smoking alcoholic because she decided to join a band right? And you don't wanna have that sort of impression of what being in a band is. You don't wanna think "oh no she's in a band she's gonna turn into a drunk, chain-smoking whore."

Perhaps trying to change that idea of what being in a band is really like, will make it a better scene.

Ronin rebelled without a cause on the first school tour and loveloveloveloveed up its reputation, along with the whole scene's reputation. Now I LOVE Ronin, they inspired me and got me into the scene. They got publicity, but schools hated them. Parents hated them. Sponsors hated them.

That does everybody a huge disservice. It really screws everyone else and drags the whole scene down, that great people in the scene have worked so long and hard for- literally, they have worked for decades to get this scene to where it is now.

When Syed wanted to do the next school tour he had a hard time convincing people that we're not out to swear at teachers and tell 13 year old girls that we're '****ing animals".

It's only now that local bands are being taken as legitimate commercial identities. But when shit like that happens, it undoes so much of all that hard work. We stand on the shoulders of giants, that's the only reason why we are able to get as far as we are now.

What do we do now, where do we go from here?

We break our backs to make the best music we can make, to be the best people we can be, to inspire the best in others as best we can, and to prove that we're more than just the foolish school dropouts everyone thinks we'll end up as, with no ambition and no brains. but come on, all of us are so much more than that.

So why not live it?

(inspired by a lengthy conversation with another local musician)

Added on retrospect: I am not trying to find somebody to put blame on for the state of our scene. Bands like Ronin have done more for the scene than most of us can manage. What i'm focusing on is how to change the negative impressions that some people in the general public have, so that our scene can benefit in general. :)
 
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Yeah.. People are enticed by the whole booze and drugs and sex image given off by rock bands. Although I've always thought that if someone really lives that way he/she would be destroyed. So yes, I do agree that if it is this bad image that is preventing local bands from making it big, something should be done. But, is it really? Some people love Ronin cause they are loveloveloveloveing crazy and they really had the spirit of those 80s rock bands. Some people dislike them cause they go overboard. I think they are awesome.

Would rocknroll be the same if everyone was tame?
 
hey i love ronin myself ;) i'm one of the biggest ronin fanboys around.

it isn't image that's preventing local bands from getting big- it's the market. you can never get big if you can never sell a million CDs, and you can never sell a million CDs if there aren't enough people willing to buy them! It doesn't matter if you're a dirty glam rock band or a straight edge christian band.

something should be done because people think that musicians are generally stupid, drunk, high on substance abuse, school-dropouts, etc and that doesn't help anybody at all.

we want to impact as many people as positively as possible, so that people will look at being part of the scene as a good thing.
 
iirc, the boredphucks played a set at borders, but thanks to some profanity, all further gigs were cancelled.
 
"What's the point if the whole country knows about local music, if they think we're all smokers, druggies and school dropouts?"

I'll tell you how singapore system works, it's more like "what if a small majority of the country knows local music negatively as smokers/druggies/droppies and the minority who at first thought positive, monkey see monkey do the majority?"

i don't think there should be much of a worry, everything comes with a balance. as many rocking druggies/smokers/droppies stereotype out there, there'll be as many (if not growing) amount of rocking druggies/smokers/droppies with halos on their head trying to prove that wrong.

take punkrock for instance, used to be hell of a fad, blink 182 / greenday etc most dropped out. but offspring (i heard) are degree holders or something.

I don't know much about this genre : death metal or something like that. basically as a "normal consumer" I'd think that kind of music is associated with satanism or something evil. but as much so-called "evil" there is, there are actually "christian death metal" bands.

so yeah well, there you go i guess, "balance"

but to start off in my opinion, local scene was a "impression = thumbs down" to start off with. (i'm talking about after the period of great indie bands in the 90s) fortunately today it's getting better again , there's local stuff on events/locations, the newspapers,the radio, tv (yes yes, you "live the dream" bashers quieten down, we know they suck.) but so what if the ones on tv suck? that gives you "non-broadcast tv radiation-ed" bands a loyalty advantage when a normal consumer says "huh? this is local band standard? it sucks!" but no, when he walks down on the street and comes across any DIYed stage gig bands, or going down to the pub and chill with a liveband playing. he realises that the DIY kids were not bad, and the pub bands were killer. that makes him curious about checking out more local "underground/commercially-untapped" bands and supporting them (I mean honestly, i'm sure most local bands that weren't on these TV shows surely can kick more ass right?) . every normal non-local scene consumer will start to appreciate. one person at a time. so for every "bad" thing, there'll be a balance of "good". A 50-50% level of support/nonsupport for the local scene is all enough and a real good chance to influence the whole of singapore as long as we don't stop stepping up on our standards whether is it from the bands, from the quality of live gig/sound/visual/event (baybeats), the FRIENDLY interaction level of local music lovers,musicians,audio engineers,composers,etc (soft forum/audioreload,etc) , the quality of studio sound (ah yes , remember the days when your friend just kept pressing "NEXT" on the cd player with your demo cd-r inside even though it costed you a damn well few hundred bucks to record? and didn't bother to listen to your music because the quality was bad to start with?) and of course, local labels! one of the tops on the "music chain" . end of it all, guess what? we work together. it's not a "hey that guy's a hero thanks to him he did loads to support local scene, he deserves a medal." kinda case. the biggest medal that the local scene supporter can get is "see-the-local-scene-prosper-to-a-global-level" medal.

one bad thing I had to say about local labels, I mean aging youth / straits records / wake me up etc all these were great etc. but the ones that I was strongly against were the DIY label kids who were eyeing on the "quick money", they claim to help "sell your cd overseas" (with myspace,paypal now, any band CAN DIY sell their stuff overseas) but it doesn't help the band in terms of cd sales returns. the kid just keeps all the cd sales money. that to me, doesn't help the local scene. and yes that includes the kids who previously put up SOFT threads asking for "song submission" and start selling "compilations". every band I recorded or spoke to over MSN will know me as the guy who strongly encouraged DIY sales for cds. learn to manage your own funds. I know you're writing music not for the money, but if you see money (the consumer support) coming back 100% into your own hands, it's nothing but pure satisfaction that keeps you going. sorry for you DIY label quickbuck kids, if you don't like what i'm saying, kindly head down to the nearest fastfood joint from your home and get a job, trust me you get paid better there.

90¢ worth.
 
Well you have musicians and you also have wannabes ...

Choose wisely !! :cool:

The 'forbidden fruit' concept sells pretty well and easily embraced by musicians/bands to look cool giving that bad boy/girl persona attracting the young curious ones.

From the early rebel folk to 70's rock to 80's hair metal, nothing much has changed since. Nowadays it has been recycled to inverted crosses, scary painted faces, the 'black parade' and tha blink blink of gangsta rap !

I believe this forbidden fruit, for ages, has been shoved down our throat by the media as glamorus and a cool lifestyle, easily embraceble for the bored minds who seek this so called liberation from the tyranny of rules and codes of conduct.

:cool:
 
but this forbidden fruit is what made Adam eat it not so much da snake who goaded him onto!!!

that means...it RRRRRRRRRRROCKSSSSSSSSS............hoohooo


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Hi Visa,

I guess you know me, it's been a while. Anyway let me first start from where I stand, I have the other portion of the story. I was the equipment supplier for Ronin's school tour. I have done almost all the gigs they done for the entire season. I bear witness & am part of all the shit happening & all the backbreaking work and efforts involved. So I moreless know the mechanics of what is involved.

Firstly, this topic is not about the scene? It's about the school tour series. That do not constitute even a sizable percentage of the scene. What is obvious is Ronin bashing. If you are what you say you are, a bonafide Ronin Fan, you should investigate fully with all parties before posting. More like creating a arguement for the sake of arguement (yes, It's seems to be your character profile, from viewing many of your postings).

QUOTE: (Ronin rebelled without a cause on the first school tour and loveloveloveloveed up its reputation, along with the whole scene's reputation. Now I LOVE Ronin, they inspired me and got me into the scene. They got publicity, but schools hated them. Parents hated them. Sponsors hated them.
That does everybody a huge disservice. It really screws everyone else and drags the whole scene down, that great people in the scene have worked so long and hard for- literally, they have worked for decades to get this scene to where it is now.)
 
good music comes when creativity and technical proficiency coincide. once you have an idea, and you have the ability to express that idea, you get a work of art.

everything else is a residue of this design. the image, the fame, the glam, the nonsense. a trade of positives and negatives.

look at our schools, the workplace, the government. our society is too eager to punish or cast out those who fail or who don't conform (who will subsequently be deemed as 'failures'). creativity? it is a liability. the most successful bands in singapore are those imitate, though highly proficient. success for them is putting food on the table.

so what kind of support you want the scene to have? money? media attention? try changing attitudes first, and you will realise that you are biting off more than you can chew, because there is a brother out there that is bigger than all of us, who cannot be beaten, who pulls all the strings, and you will realise that you are going against him.

anyway i sense a personal grudge
 
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This is my input for this thread:

The school tour was non existent before Ronin did it (for such a series). So they are the starting point, so how to f**k it up if you are the first?? In actual fact they set the standard from which to evolve. So if you can't pickup from where they left it, so it's easiest just to blame them for your own inept-ness?

I have to say their focus and perserverance gives a lot to the amount of sucess the first tour generated. They practically whore themselves to the supporting media, the schools, the sponsors. It's not an easy thing, and you have to set a resolve heart to carry this out.

They put in enormous amount of studio time, before the tour and during the tour to maintain the standard of their show. It's not just go 2 blocks away, they travel from the east to balestier every practice (40-60min travel time). It's my jamming studio, that's how I know.

They work on shit budget for almost every school. They practically do not make anything. I get most of what the school gives which is peanuts, but we work well so I am ok. They set a standard on the sound they want, so the equipment are not compromised. I was their soundman, knowing their song parts and actively mixing live. This also contribute to the success too.

They not only perform, but also have to lug the band gears and my PA system as well (most halls is 1 flight stairs up) My PA case have 2 main speakers, 2 mons, 2 big 18" subwoofers, mixer case, 80KG amp rack, 5 cable boxes. Plus the band set, 5pcs drumset, 2 git amps, 1 bass amp, mics, mic & spk stands. Full mike-up to my system. They help setup and lay cables for every show. Also to tear down and unload to my van. Major sweat work.

Imagine having to do all these at 6am in the morning (wakeup 5am) to be ready for morning assembly at 7:15.

Let's not even talk about the admin part, chasing for measly payment, etc...etc... I can only imagine for them. But they were steady to me, payment made even when some still pending to them.

Maybe it's because of what and how they did it, that others cannot follow up. The standard set was way too high. That's why I was pleasently surprised when there was a similar series going on this year. And none of us from the previous year were even contacted for advise or opinion (even as just a courtesy). But knowing what we gone thru, I am also a bit relieved, it was tough.

Ok, I will admit, sometimes the stage antics were overboard, especially when The Suns joined briefly for a couple shows. But 70% of the shows, it's nothing too fancy, I am always right infront of the stage. I also don't recall any school staffs reacting too adversely either. This is mostly credit to Levan's verbal stage persona. The impact is there. It's a learning experience for all. Teachers can also use it to their advantage for the student's education on life lessons.

I hope my point of view will impact positively on all who have read this. Let us look broadly.

(BTW: please rename this tread as: School Tour 07 FAILURE!! Lets Bash Ronin)
 
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Ok, I will admit, sometimes the stage antics were overboard, especially when The Suns joined briefly for a couple shows. But 70% of the shows, it's nothing too fancy, I am always right infront of the stage. I also don't recall any school staffs reacting too adversely either. This is mostly credit to Levan's verbal stage persona. The impact is there. It's a learning experience for all. Teachers can also use it to their advantage for the student's education on life lessons.

This fellas with the "rebel rock loll" did a school tour??...freakin idiots!!
Look at the CD cover of this band ....you fellas did a freakin school tour ??? And the schools approved ???
Somebody please wake me up ....what year is this ??
This band deserves a medal !! :lol:

Oh my i peed in my pants a little :mrgreen:


I hope my point of view will impact positively on all who have read this. Let us look broadly.

Am soooo impacted ...Oh yes .... i will LOOK BROADLY mate !! :twisted::twisted:
 
Hahah, visa, dude, you will confirm fail many uni essays with your broad stroke, unsubstantiated generalisations that fail to convince and after reading Mike's comments, I would tend to agree that you are bashing Ronin!

it isn't image that's preventing local bands from getting big- it's the market. you can never get big if you can never sell a million CDs, and you can never sell a million CDs if there aren't enough people willing to buy them! It doesn't matter if you're a dirty glam rock band or a straight edge christian band.

I don't get it. I thought your initial post was about "image" being important. Btw, in Singapore, for an album to be certified "Platinum", it only needs to sell 15,000 copies, not 1 million ;)

something should be done because people think that musicians are generally stupid, drunk, high on substance abuse, school-dropouts, etc and that doesn't help anybody at all.

Urm, who are these "people"? How many people do you know that have this mindset? This is the first time I'm hearing this! Oh no wait, I think my father mentioned it to me before about bands in the 60s.

Visa, I think you need to go out a bit more and attend not just gigs. Go see other arts events organised by all the myriad arts groups. Don't focus on just the "music" scene, but the arts scene in its entirety. To the government and to the layman, music is simply another aspect of the arts.
 
It is true that some people tend to generalise rock bands as rowdy, dirty and foul-mouthed good-for-nothings who should be getting 9-5 jobs instead of dreaming their rocknroll dreams.

Ronin did the school tour and exposed many kids to local rock music and that may and may not have stained the image of local musicians as a whole, due to their rowdiness and anti-establishment attitude. Visa does have a point..

Now I respect Ronin very much for being the great musicians they are and for daring to live their dreams. They are definitely the guys who made me even think of playing and writing music, still remember that day they came down to my school and many people walked out cause it was "too noisy" for them. But it was magic for me. I think Visa may have offended pro-Ronin people around here by his insensitive comment but hey, give him a break, it's just a misunderstanding. I'm sure his point wasn't to bash Ronin.
 
hey, i've got their EP, their album, posters, a stratocaster that's signed by all the members, and i'm still looking forward to when they come back! i spent lots and lots of SMSes voting for them when they were on radio, I was at the front of many many of their shows- sound relief, rock on singapore, RFG, YGW, you name a Ronin show, you find a tall Indian guy. =p I spread their website to all my friends- if you got the album and you check the CD sleeve, my name is in there.

I'm not trying to focus on any one band, it's just an example. My and my bandmates once smoked on stage for kicks, and looking back, it was a completely pointless and stupid thing to do and I regret it.
 
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