the scene- good or bad?

[visa]

AvonRellets bro:

I don't get it. I thought your initial post was about "image" being important. Btw, in Singapore, for an album to be certified "Platinum", it only needs to sell 15,000 copies, not 1 million

this was in reply to the second post in the thread, not a continuation of my first. =)

Visa, I think you need to go out a bit more and attend not just gigs. To the government and to the layman, music is simply another aspect of the arts.

I do! I just recently caught The Campaign To Confer The Public Service Star on JBJ and it was a brilliant play, I loved every bit of it. Now, how many people have a bad impression of local playwrights and thespians? They are generally a group of very cultured, civil and mature people! Wouldn't it be nice if the same could be said about us too?

 

[visa]

bro mikemann bro:

It's been awhile! =)

I've always looked up to Ronin for their amazing work ethic and never say die attitude. True Victorians with the spirit of Nil Sine Labore!

I will never, ever deny that doing the school tour required MASSIVE amounts of energy, passion, hard work, determination. I saw videos where the students just sat there as though they were listening to a lecture, and anybody who plays in a band will know that is not an easy crowd to play to!

When they performed at Victoria School I remember seeing them carry everything from the van, and I thought it was amazing that they were willing to do so much!

Anybody who knows Ronin personally knows that the stage presence and image is just that, and they are some of the most pleasant and inspiring guys you can get to know personally offstage! I do not want to imply the inverse just because of the stage antics they chose to do!

I will not rename the thread "School Tour Failure- Let's Bash Ronin" because I DON'T think that the tour was a failure. Exposure is exposure- so many kids who didn't know about local music now do, and you never know, they will be the next electrico, ronin, wgb, fire fight, caracal, gse, etc.

Ronin was one of the biggest successes in the local music scene. I don't want to linger on who to bash or blame- that's a very childish thing to do. I've come off harsher than I intended to, maybe because I'm close to the guys in real life and I know we can all have a laugh about it together, but I apologize.

What I do want to bring the focus to now is- how do we change the mindsets and bad impressions that some people do have? I do agree with AvonRellets that there is no concrete proof that a significant amount of people today do disrespect local musicians and the scene. (We should get a survey out! Maybe i'll work on it.) But just because you don't have a report about a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist! But even if it doesn't, it doesn't hurt to build a positive vibe doesn't it?

The scene is made up of more than just the bands- crowds play a part too, more so that the bands even. Now we've all been in mosh pits where some inconsiderate people don't care for other people's safety and simply flail around and hit other people. Ron bro, I believe your wife got hit by somebody? Some people might say "if you can't take the heat, don't go into the kitchen." There is an element of truth in that, but sometimes heat is plain unneccessary, don't you think? I'm sure we can all have good moshing fun without causing bodily harm to other people!

 

[mikemann]

You sure sound like those inter-varsity annual debate gibber.

 

[Grain]

tr

Visa dont talk so much... U still Singapore 2nd Best when the rest IS the 1st best......

i'll make u turn pale again if u dare counter my words...!!!!!!!!


People hv every rights to speak-out their thoughts n their minds. u too.
watever it is Only actions speak louder n shows result.

 

[SherT]

People hv every rights to speak-out their thoughts n their minds. u too.
watever it is Only actions speak louder n shows result.

Well said, but do you have anything positive to contribute to this discussion?

Visa has a point in saying that the school invasion tour left a bad taste in the mouth of the parents and teachers. I remember the day Ronin and WGB stopped by my secondary school. The teachers were kicking up a big fuss after one of my classmates yelled "SHOW ME YOUR P***Y" in response to Levan's stage banter. After the show was over they even kept the comments coming about how everyone was gonna emulate Brian and grow their hair long.

To most of us this is pretty normal, but from the average singaporean's point of view, when was the last time you saw a dude with platinum white hair going blinkin' insane on stage? It's human to fear what we don't understand, and fear breeds misunderstanding.

We can't expect everyone to understand that these things are part of the whole package. You wanna try and tell me that this isn't true?

You mentioned that everyone has the right to their own opinions, and I think that it's exceedingly uncivilised on your part to express a desire to make our dear forummite here "turn pale again if he dares counter your words (sic; unneccessary exclamation marks)". If you feel a compelling need to externalise your excess of testosterone-driven aggression, might I suggest an economy sack of potatoes for your head? It's significantly less detrimental to your physical wellbeing than a concrete wall.

Give the dude a break, quit jumping on the "bash the dude at a disadvantage" bandwagon. I don't see anyone bitching about Ronin here, just a bunch of people bitching over a simple misunderstanding.

 

[AgingYouth]

We is have no concept of selling out. We is have no concept of sleeping with the enemy. We is only having the concept of getting the loveloveloveloveen job done.

We is only interested to add more to the original music landscape.

Is you all or is you all not addings to its?

 

[blueprintstudios]

wah eh, relak leh. lets make the thread more... fruitful.
y'know, instead of criticising each other's opinions/view. maybe visa is just thinking from another different frequency/perspective. to you guys he's ronin-bashing. to him he's err i don't know who he's bashing in particular, and to me you guys are visa-bashing-ronin-bashing. ahhh messy la.

think you got a good idea that'll help the scene? well guess what, sometimes it just doesn't work IF you share that ideal with people. you gotta play hero and start the ball rolling for yourself first. If you see people following/inspired by your path, I guess you ARE doing the right thing and thinking the right mindset. All of us just wants what's best for the scene right? this thread should more be about "Scene - Good Or Better? and what's for the best?"

2cents worth.

 

[XLayaR]

Locals bands always try too hard........IMO lah

 

[jbarks]

to me you guys are visa-bashing-ronin-bashing

+1

I have to say that the arts (in layman terms) are more accessible to the public in the sense that there are venues like the Esplanade throwing lots of financial support at it, investing in publicity for plays, musicals and whatnot. Writers get front-page coverage in our papers. Not the same for the waterfront shows, that's all I can say...

Bands aren't for everyone, and what you see stories on Pete Doherty making the news, it doesn't do us any good either. But Visa does have a point... go out to Orchard Road today and ask a random selection of 50 people what they think of local music, and see what happens.

So please please please answer his question- "how do we change the mindsets and bad impressions that some people do have?"

I don't have any answers, so this is where I will exit the thread

 

[visa]

SherT: don't worry bro! Grain is my good friend it's just an inside joke. haha. thanks

but yes, lets turn this thread into- how can we boost the image of local music amongst singaporeans in general?

and once we can answer that question, let's do it!

because then, we all benefit, and by sharing our music with more of our fellow singaporeans, i think singapore as a country benefits, and we can all be proud of achieving somethin with our lives and passions =)

thanks jbarks =)

 

[Grain]

88

Well said, but do you have anything positive to contribute to this discussion?

whose bashing who? i u think i am bashing Visa, u are wrong.
Yes i hv lotsa things to contribute. but not in writings. But believe me, in the actions i am doing.

R we cool....!!!

 

[Demigod]

Haha I am perfectly fine with bands which advocates a negative bad boy image. It's all part of the deal with being in a rock n roll band.

It is definitely not true that "uncivilized" bands will not make it big. Look at Guns N Roses, a world renowned rock band. Almost every GNR members smokes and they swear on stage like its no big deal.

The crusade by parents, schools and government against rock N roll music has been around for quite some time already. I see no definite resolution to such a conflict and there is absolutely no point to try convincing them that Rock N Roll is a 'civilized' form of music (and it isn't in the first place). If people don't change their perception of rock n roll, then leave them be...

I must also applaud Ronin and other bands for daring to be different, despite the bashing. I think keeping it real is far better than selling out to try to appeal to a larger audience.

 

[visa]

grain/nazri, relax bro it's cool!

demigod bro:

you applaud bands for daring to be different, despite the bashing. I completely identify, agree with and respect that.

but how far is being different for the sake of being different "keeping it real", and how is that related to "selling out"?

How many of us are really that oppressed? Most of us go home to our mums and dads. How real is glam rock today? I'm not insulting the genre- it's great music and it's a nice piece of history to pay tribute to. But who wakes up in the morning genuinely feeling like axl rose these days? more often than not we're thinking about our homework, our NS, our next paycheck, etc. if it's just an act, is it keeping it real?

i'm not trying to provoke or offend anybody, just trying to stir some thoughts =)

 

[azlan]

+1

go out to Orchard Road today and ask a random selection of 50 people what they think of local music, and see what happens.

actually, i have done a survey about local music before.... i found the results pretty interesting....

 

[visa]

azlan bro, mind sharing the results with us?

 

[SherT]

R we cool....!!!

Sure we are cool bro. Just pissed off at the all dudes here who turn militant on every f*cking thing. =)

 

[gsonique]

lovelovelovelovelovelovelovelove thing

What on chicken earth is that ???

I say rOCK and Roll is Bullshit with tight pants !!!

come on bring it .....come on .....!!! :evil:

 

[JoshuaG]

I don't quite get the point of this thread or where its going Visa.....

It just seems like you're saying that bands should behave themselves and not mess it up for the rest of us...

Or are you saying that glam rock isn't the way the scene should be represented?

Sorry but just clarifying......


Cause I don't think you can quite the escape the stereotypical drugs, sex and booze view...I think that stigma is tried and tested not too mention true to a certain degree and is never gonna go away, especially here on our lovely island with its myopic view of the arts in general.

How to improve the image of our local scene?

By writing good music, sticking to your guns and putting out releases and in return by going out there buying local releases hence creating demand...
How can you or anyone ignore a product that is in such high demand? This is a small country after all...not long before word gets around.....

On a side note.....
Perhaps it is the very scene itself who should change first....I have met many a musician/band who are all about the scene, who go out and record that EP and hope that their CD will sell out but when asked how many local cds you have bought....don't be surprised if the answer is a big whopping ZERO...you are expecting people to buy your LOCAL release but you yourself have never bought one....strange isn't it.....

 

[visa]

hi joshua!

yes, i do feel that we should all behave ourselves!

but my main aim is, through discussion, to raise points on how to

- increase demand for local music
- improve the image and public perception of local music

there is nothing wrong with glam rock and i dig it myself, i was just questioning it's relevance to today's situation. Music is different for everybody- what is relevant for one person may not be relevant for another, so i think we can agree that we will all have our own individual tastes and preferences. It would be boring if there was only one type of music at any one time period anyway!

As for local CDs, to start the ball rolling, I have about 5 or so, which is not alot, but I only have about 10 CDs in total! I still haven't managed to get my hands on Flower Show Riots, pocket is tight =(

 

[blank]

Personally, I wouldn't buy alot of CD's because like many bands everywhere, not just Singapore, there's too much filler.
I won't go naming bands as that wouldn't be very nice.
But this is what usually happens.

"Hey this band is good!". After listening to one or two songs, usually on their Myspace.
Then when I hear their other songs in live gigs, or youtube etc etc.
Then I find myself being disappointed, as the other songs aren't nearly anywhere as good, some even bad.
I don't find any need to purchase their CD because of just one or two songs. 10 bucks for one/two songs? No thanks.

And regarding the "rock and roll" stereotype or whatever.
I think Singapore's commercial scene is really tame, I don't think there's much of a image problem.
I do however have a huge problem with bands labeling themselves "indie" or "alternative" when their very clearly pop-rock. A lot of bands are doing that, and it really annoys me.

Just my 2 cents.