Some Comedy Fun...just being naughty..
- Thread starter parablue74
- Start date
PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
hahaha, i leave that for the guitar heroes here to mutilate with OTFT geetar duel solo!
carboxymoron
New member
5 years in the making... Can we do special event at the next SOFT bands collective gig?
LOL. Maybe the duelists or contestants are undergoing 5 years of secret training. Can't wait to see them unleash their SKILLZ!
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
hey prm, haha sounds like some short sample from a dubstep track before the drop man! =D
Li Xiao'an
New member
Ok la Calvin, sorry for being mean. I meant most of what I said, but I guess I should have found a better way to put it across. No hard feelings.
centralcatchment
New member
I was about to write a forum post about how I managed to get out of a troll war before it happened. Then I paused to reflect. Now I have only this to say.
There is a time to step back out of a fight before it happens, and there is a time to say, screw it, let them have it. Congratulations, I think you got it right.
There is a time to step back out of a fight before it happens, and there is a time to say, screw it, let them have it. Congratulations, I think you got it right.
parablue74
New member
Hi Xiao An, Yes, i was kinda hurt by the way you said things... I mean, I was kinda treating you like a 'brother' in a way, as one of those in soft hoping for a better future for local market.. I'm not troubled by what you review about my music, no ones music can fit everyone's taste, hell, even famous acts, many do not fit my expectations. There are different ways of creating music, and we have to justify accordingly to what we are adhering for. Old skool vs nu skool, there's no right or wrong. Mainly, i try what i can to make a notion to move the ever 'dead' scene around me, that's all.. it's not something I'm trying to prove to anyone.. it's kinda a responsibility I feel on my part.., there's only this small a music community, if we don't do it, who would..you know what i mean..???
Li Xiao'an
New member
I mean if you put your opinions on a public forum, you should be prepared to hear feedback.I never mince my words, even with people who employ me. This has gained me work and has also lost me work, but everything i've said up till now isn't actually malicious. Go and read my reply to you again and maybe you'll see some other things.
I never said you are weak, but if you keep talking about how powerless local musicians are to change the scene, then you will sound like a weak person, and most people will be unwilling to follow you. If you really want to effect change in the local scene, I really think you should ramp up the quality of your production and inspire a new generation with quality that they'll have to live up to.
Regarding my own work, the stuff you commented on -
The jazz on my myspace is mostly school assignments (ie. Written in a given style)
The jazz that is not traditional on my myspace may be slightly reminiscent of Maria Schneider, a great composer, but that's because I listened to her work and tried to emulate it while writing (again a school project)
The only work I have on my myspace that has been commercially released is Derrick Hoh's "Love Story", where I only played the guitar parts.
- If you think it's crappily mixed and crappily mastered, you can tell that to Tat Tong, the producer, i'm sure he'd be glad to hear your feedback. It's not the only commercial release i've played on, but I put it there because the guitar parts are more audible than the other things i've played on.
When I criticized some of the tracks you did for Shixian, it was not because of taste. I listen to almost everything so that I can make an educated criticism about its merits and downfalls. Nothing is wrong with the style that you chose. It's just that certain production aspects, to me, lacked attention or detail, such as the tuning of the vocals, which is expected in today's industry for most popular music, and other aspects of the mix, I won't really go into detail.
I'm not criticizing YOU, just the work that you put out. I didn't even go so far as to compare you with a random poor fellow in the forum who shouldn't even have been dragged into this.
My own goals for Singapore are my own, and just because I haven't shared them with you doesn't mean I don't have my own ambitions to grow the artistic side of our country. We're such a young country, we have to grow from the bottom up, and we may not live to see the fruits of our labour, but if we produce work of increasing quality, one day the scales will tip and THEN you'll have your revolution. In the meantime, all you can do is work, and just wait.
By the way, i'm not rejecting your opinion of my work, if you think it's poo then please feel free to think that way. I'm listening. Criticism that I see the point of just makes me grow.
Anyway, you can listen or don't listen. After all, i'm 23, you're 37, you probably started playing guitar and thinking about music while I was still picking my nose and wetting my bed.
I never said you are weak, but if you keep talking about how powerless local musicians are to change the scene, then you will sound like a weak person, and most people will be unwilling to follow you. If you really want to effect change in the local scene, I really think you should ramp up the quality of your production and inspire a new generation with quality that they'll have to live up to.
Regarding my own work, the stuff you commented on -
The jazz on my myspace is mostly school assignments (ie. Written in a given style)
The jazz that is not traditional on my myspace may be slightly reminiscent of Maria Schneider, a great composer, but that's because I listened to her work and tried to emulate it while writing (again a school project)
The only work I have on my myspace that has been commercially released is Derrick Hoh's "Love Story", where I only played the guitar parts.
- If you think it's crappily mixed and crappily mastered, you can tell that to Tat Tong, the producer, i'm sure he'd be glad to hear your feedback. It's not the only commercial release i've played on, but I put it there because the guitar parts are more audible than the other things i've played on.
When I criticized some of the tracks you did for Shixian, it was not because of taste. I listen to almost everything so that I can make an educated criticism about its merits and downfalls. Nothing is wrong with the style that you chose. It's just that certain production aspects, to me, lacked attention or detail, such as the tuning of the vocals, which is expected in today's industry for most popular music, and other aspects of the mix, I won't really go into detail.
I'm not criticizing YOU, just the work that you put out. I didn't even go so far as to compare you with a random poor fellow in the forum who shouldn't even have been dragged into this.
My own goals for Singapore are my own, and just because I haven't shared them with you doesn't mean I don't have my own ambitions to grow the artistic side of our country. We're such a young country, we have to grow from the bottom up, and we may not live to see the fruits of our labour, but if we produce work of increasing quality, one day the scales will tip and THEN you'll have your revolution. In the meantime, all you can do is work, and just wait.
By the way, i'm not rejecting your opinion of my work, if you think it's poo then please feel free to think that way. I'm listening. Criticism that I see the point of just makes me grow.
Anyway, you can listen or don't listen. After all, i'm 23, you're 37, you probably started playing guitar and thinking about music while I was still picking my nose and wetting my bed.
parablue74
New member
It's your opinion that it's untuned vocals.. but you are not qualified as a sound engineer nor a producer to give the feedback. You have to be specific if you want to mention something, words that someone just speaks like that are empty words..
Example, if you say it's not tune to pitch, you are wrong, they are autotuned.. but no one autotunes every vowel and syllabus, cos that will make the singing robotic..
Again, if you say it's not sync to tempo, again you are wrong, they are sync to tempo
Next, if you say it's not mixed, again you are wrong, they are mixed..
So your comments are empty words that I'm not interested to take in..
There are many ways to mix a vocal track, like you can have it sharp, clear, or you can have it fat, thick, or you can have it natural... Personally, I don't think you are qualified at all to give feedback, and firstly, I didn't ask for your feedback at all.. But again, you can have your opinions, everyone can have their own. But my advice to you, give feedback only when people ask for it..
As for production wise, there is no end to self-improvement in music creation. But the way, the style anyone can produce a song comes to point where it can either be appreciated or not be. There is no one way anyone can produce a song that will please everyone. I can make a song dreamy, but then people may say there's too little hype. I can make a song hyped up, but then again, some one may say it lags emotion. Every blade cuts both ways.. so it's all in a matter of taste...
A lot of detail was placed doing Shixian's 1st album, an album that took 8 yrs to complete, still I'm working on the 2nd album now, and improvements I'm looking at is making a more natural mix, more vocals upfront, less instrumentation, and more detail aspects on the playing performance. Most of the 1st album was performed by myself, almost all instruments (except violins), but this time round, for the 2nd, I'm engaging others to assist me. That's my own route of improvements I seek for myself.. we have to keep constantly improving in our own road of music development, regardless of age..
'I never said you are weak, but if you keep talking about how powerless local musicians are to change the scene, then you will sound like a weak person, and most people will be unwilling to follow you.'
'My own goals for Singapore are my own, and just because I haven't shared them with you doesn't mean I don't have my own ambitions to grow the artistic side of our country. We're such a young country, we have to grow from the bottom up, and we may not live to see the fruits of our labour, but if we produce work of increasing quality, one day the scales will tip and THEN you'll have your revolution. In the meantime, all you can do is work, and just wait.'
Everyone has their own ways of contribution... I dunno if you are staying in Boston at the moment.. but unless you are staying in Singapore, then you will know what's going on. I work in the music scene, have been for many years.. all kinds of jobs I have done in the music/entertainment industry here. That's why I'm emphasizing a lot on market. If you think that artistry itself is the only 'light' that shines.. if you know where I'm coming from... it's not..! In the world, it's about money. Overplay a song on radio, you see fans popping by. Sometimes even if the song is crappy.. And if your song is fantastic, you still don't see fans popping by.. cos no one get's to listen to it in the 1st place. I've seen crappy rich men, who can't sing for nuts, but are able to buy an entire pub, buy/hire all the musicians, and be the singer of his own pub, and so has become titled a 'professional' working singer. Again, it's all about money..
I'm not digging into the artistry point of view, cos I'm not speaking about it, not becos I won't speak about it in the future. But am I weak to mention about the weak points of the industry??? Cos if you want to go all praising about the good points, then what else do you want to talk about rather than just live in self-praise??? Of cos, i'm remarking on the weak points, that maybe we can find ways and means to find a solution.
Current scenario in SG, where i work all the time.. somehow, the battle (Music vs Entertainment), Entertainment is winning. And that entertainment is simply 'sex sells'.. overwhelming even cover bands.. to the point that proper pubs are even placed out of business..that's the situation..
That's why I'm active now in Soft.. cos I think this is the time that local music market can be more active.. it's something like if people are so sick of seeing 'crappy singers with sexy bodies, dancing around half naked', then maybe they will pay attention to more original, matured songs of a more unique character, entertainment of another aspect.. just have to make them entertaining..
You may not fully understand what I'm vying at.. but well, you stay in Boston..
'The only work I have on my myspace that has been commercially released is Derrick Hoh's "Love Story", where I only played the guitar parts. '
So that means, I can't comment anything, since that's all you've shown. So maybe, next time, you start making songs and I'll be there to criticize them.
Example, if you say it's not tune to pitch, you are wrong, they are autotuned.. but no one autotunes every vowel and syllabus, cos that will make the singing robotic..
Again, if you say it's not sync to tempo, again you are wrong, they are sync to tempo
Next, if you say it's not mixed, again you are wrong, they are mixed..
So your comments are empty words that I'm not interested to take in..
There are many ways to mix a vocal track, like you can have it sharp, clear, or you can have it fat, thick, or you can have it natural... Personally, I don't think you are qualified at all to give feedback, and firstly, I didn't ask for your feedback at all.. But again, you can have your opinions, everyone can have their own. But my advice to you, give feedback only when people ask for it..
As for production wise, there is no end to self-improvement in music creation. But the way, the style anyone can produce a song comes to point where it can either be appreciated or not be. There is no one way anyone can produce a song that will please everyone. I can make a song dreamy, but then people may say there's too little hype. I can make a song hyped up, but then again, some one may say it lags emotion. Every blade cuts both ways.. so it's all in a matter of taste...
A lot of detail was placed doing Shixian's 1st album, an album that took 8 yrs to complete, still I'm working on the 2nd album now, and improvements I'm looking at is making a more natural mix, more vocals upfront, less instrumentation, and more detail aspects on the playing performance. Most of the 1st album was performed by myself, almost all instruments (except violins), but this time round, for the 2nd, I'm engaging others to assist me. That's my own route of improvements I seek for myself.. we have to keep constantly improving in our own road of music development, regardless of age..
'I never said you are weak, but if you keep talking about how powerless local musicians are to change the scene, then you will sound like a weak person, and most people will be unwilling to follow you.'
'My own goals for Singapore are my own, and just because I haven't shared them with you doesn't mean I don't have my own ambitions to grow the artistic side of our country. We're such a young country, we have to grow from the bottom up, and we may not live to see the fruits of our labour, but if we produce work of increasing quality, one day the scales will tip and THEN you'll have your revolution. In the meantime, all you can do is work, and just wait.'
Everyone has their own ways of contribution... I dunno if you are staying in Boston at the moment.. but unless you are staying in Singapore, then you will know what's going on. I work in the music scene, have been for many years.. all kinds of jobs I have done in the music/entertainment industry here. That's why I'm emphasizing a lot on market. If you think that artistry itself is the only 'light' that shines.. if you know where I'm coming from... it's not..! In the world, it's about money. Overplay a song on radio, you see fans popping by. Sometimes even if the song is crappy.. And if your song is fantastic, you still don't see fans popping by.. cos no one get's to listen to it in the 1st place. I've seen crappy rich men, who can't sing for nuts, but are able to buy an entire pub, buy/hire all the musicians, and be the singer of his own pub, and so has become titled a 'professional' working singer. Again, it's all about money..
I'm not digging into the artistry point of view, cos I'm not speaking about it, not becos I won't speak about it in the future. But am I weak to mention about the weak points of the industry??? Cos if you want to go all praising about the good points, then what else do you want to talk about rather than just live in self-praise??? Of cos, i'm remarking on the weak points, that maybe we can find ways and means to find a solution.
Current scenario in SG, where i work all the time.. somehow, the battle (Music vs Entertainment), Entertainment is winning. And that entertainment is simply 'sex sells'.. overwhelming even cover bands.. to the point that proper pubs are even placed out of business..that's the situation..
That's why I'm active now in Soft.. cos I think this is the time that local music market can be more active.. it's something like if people are so sick of seeing 'crappy singers with sexy bodies, dancing around half naked', then maybe they will pay attention to more original, matured songs of a more unique character, entertainment of another aspect.. just have to make them entertaining..
You may not fully understand what I'm vying at.. but well, you stay in Boston..
'The only work I have on my myspace that has been commercially released is Derrick Hoh's "Love Story", where I only played the guitar parts. '
So that means, I can't comment anything, since that's all you've shown. So maybe, next time, you start making songs and I'll be there to criticize them.
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Li Xiao'an
New member
I am qualified as a musician to say that they are not tuned to pitch.
People DO tune every single note in much of today's pop music. It's not so important when you have a really good singer, but on "Sleeper's Tale" they are extremely out of tune in general. If you can't hear it, i'm deeply sorry for you. If you did autotune everything with the threshold set to 0, it would sound like a robot. But most tuning software allows you to edit each note by cents, so with detailed editing over some time (8 years of work on ONE ALBUM), you could probably do a much better job.
You say I am not qualified, go and ask the qualified people what they think of "Sleeper's Tale". Go ahead and show it to a "qualified" engineer. What is qualified? Do you have a music engineering degree? Or does merely having done it for many years make you qualified? My dad has played guitar for 40 years, but he's pretty lousy at it and I wouldn't take advice from him, even if he's a cool guy.
What is mixing? - I understand it to be the process of placing instruments (and vocals) in their appropriate spatial alignment(panning), adjusting their volumes and EQ so they do not sit on each others' frequencies and "fight" for sonic space. If we don't talk about dynamic/space effects such as compressors/limiters/delay/reverb, I think it would be fair to say that I have more or less accurately summarized what mixing is.
My comment was not that the music was unmixed. It that it was mixed ineffectively.
I told you already, it's not a personal insult, it's just my objective opinion. I'm not here to pick a fight with you.
(By the way I told you about "Love Story" because you commented that everything I had was mixed like crap and mastered like crap, and it's funny because the producer is well known for his work in the C-Pop industry)
By the way, you also said "Of cos, i'm remarking on the weak points, that maybe we can find ways and means to find a solution." So I just remarked on the weak points of the production. Why get defensive?
I may be studying in Boston, but I spent all my life in Singapore. It's not like I haven't been involved here. Maybe not as long as you, but that's more of a problem of when I was born. I know how crappy the scene is right now, it's not like i'm saying there isn't a problem.
I do not think that "artistry is the only light that shines", didn't I say earlier in one of your threads that the machinery behind a hit song involves getting a ton of radio stations to play your record all at once and also have it up on all kinds of visual media? That's what makes stuff that has some kind of quality (or not) popular.
However, artistry/craftsmanship (defined by most dictionaries as SKILL (proficiency) in executing an art form, or a craft), is of paramount importance when it comes down to the actual work of creating stuff.
I mixed "Tower of Power Sound" and "Heavy Guitar Sound" on my myspace as demos of my amp modeling unit, so if you want to comment and criticize them, by all means do. I listen to all input.
The arrogance to ignore the feedback of your audience is the greatest sin for a musician.
People DO tune every single note in much of today's pop music. It's not so important when you have a really good singer, but on "Sleeper's Tale" they are extremely out of tune in general. If you can't hear it, i'm deeply sorry for you. If you did autotune everything with the threshold set to 0, it would sound like a robot. But most tuning software allows you to edit each note by cents, so with detailed editing over some time (8 years of work on ONE ALBUM), you could probably do a much better job.
You say I am not qualified, go and ask the qualified people what they think of "Sleeper's Tale". Go ahead and show it to a "qualified" engineer. What is qualified? Do you have a music engineering degree? Or does merely having done it for many years make you qualified? My dad has played guitar for 40 years, but he's pretty lousy at it and I wouldn't take advice from him, even if he's a cool guy.
What is mixing? - I understand it to be the process of placing instruments (and vocals) in their appropriate spatial alignment(panning), adjusting their volumes and EQ so they do not sit on each others' frequencies and "fight" for sonic space. If we don't talk about dynamic/space effects such as compressors/limiters/delay/reverb, I think it would be fair to say that I have more or less accurately summarized what mixing is.
My comment was not that the music was unmixed. It that it was mixed ineffectively.
I told you already, it's not a personal insult, it's just my objective opinion. I'm not here to pick a fight with you.
(By the way I told you about "Love Story" because you commented that everything I had was mixed like crap and mastered like crap, and it's funny because the producer is well known for his work in the C-Pop industry)
By the way, you also said "Of cos, i'm remarking on the weak points, that maybe we can find ways and means to find a solution." So I just remarked on the weak points of the production. Why get defensive?
I may be studying in Boston, but I spent all my life in Singapore. It's not like I haven't been involved here. Maybe not as long as you, but that's more of a problem of when I was born. I know how crappy the scene is right now, it's not like i'm saying there isn't a problem.
I do not think that "artistry is the only light that shines", didn't I say earlier in one of your threads that the machinery behind a hit song involves getting a ton of radio stations to play your record all at once and also have it up on all kinds of visual media? That's what makes stuff that has some kind of quality (or not) popular.
However, artistry/craftsmanship (defined by most dictionaries as SKILL (proficiency) in executing an art form, or a craft), is of paramount importance when it comes down to the actual work of creating stuff.
I mixed "Tower of Power Sound" and "Heavy Guitar Sound" on my myspace as demos of my amp modeling unit, so if you want to comment and criticize them, by all means do. I listen to all input.
The arrogance to ignore the feedback of your audience is the greatest sin for a musician.
Li Xiao'an
New member
By the way, just in case it wasn't clear, I think we are in an industry where you have to be prepared for feedback from any direction at any time.
Whether you like it or not.
So, like I said, please feel free to criticize anything I put up for public display.
What kind of a childish arts culture are we trying to build where you can't say what you want? What kind of childish artists are we creating that cannot take it?
Can you imagine going to a restaurant, receiving chicken that is undercooked, sending it back, and having the chef tell you:
"Personally, I don't think you are qualified at all to give feedback"
Good luck to that restaurant, they're f***ed
(Actually I wasn't going to comment about it also but since you brought up the issue of "sync to tempo", the piano parts in the album are generally kind of hesitant and are definitely not with the click, so either a better player or quantization is in order. Also to be perfectly fair to you, the album isn't entirely out of tune, but most of the tracks have bits of vocal parts that fall out of tune then back into tune, Jpop has a lot of that as well, but some of the tracks are really out)
Whether you like it or not.
So, like I said, please feel free to criticize anything I put up for public display.
What kind of a childish arts culture are we trying to build where you can't say what you want? What kind of childish artists are we creating that cannot take it?
Can you imagine going to a restaurant, receiving chicken that is undercooked, sending it back, and having the chef tell you:
"Personally, I don't think you are qualified at all to give feedback"
Good luck to that restaurant, they're f***ed
(Actually I wasn't going to comment about it also but since you brought up the issue of "sync to tempo", the piano parts in the album are generally kind of hesitant and are definitely not with the click, so either a better player or quantization is in order. Also to be perfectly fair to you, the album isn't entirely out of tune, but most of the tracks have bits of vocal parts that fall out of tune then back into tune, Jpop has a lot of that as well, but some of the tracks are really out)
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PatheinRaindropMoe
New member
hmm, from a joke thread to a comedy being not funny to some and till this stage of bruised ego and long words....
either internet is really serious business or that ego can really be hurt on the internet without much emotion in the words we write.
Hehe, why dont you all have a friendly music composition trade off, write a piece of music, record, mixed down and post it here, we will vote for the more preferred choice.
Instead of taking it personally over individual opinions, why dont make something useful out of it.
If not interested in productive activity and still wanna trade words on "how you hurt me oh so bad baby", then go ahead. The rest of the folks reading prolly be having fun, like me.
either internet is really serious business or that ego can really be hurt on the internet without much emotion in the words we write.
Hehe, why dont you all have a friendly music composition trade off, write a piece of music, record, mixed down and post it here, we will vote for the more preferred choice.
Instead of taking it personally over individual opinions, why dont make something useful out of it.
If not interested in productive activity and still wanna trade words on "how you hurt me oh so bad baby", then go ahead. The rest of the folks reading prolly be having fun, like me.
parablue74
New member
Xiao An,
Nope, I still think you are unqualified..
Autotune is a program.. but there is always that debate about auto-tuning every vowel and note of vocal singing.. it's the debate of old skool vs nu skool.. and this debate is endless..
But if you don't understand, I can explain the process..
I have 2 duplicates of the vocal track, one totally auto-tuned, the other not.. then I compare every vowel and syllabus, listening musicially to see which sounds better..
Then i mix both together, whichever part sounds better..
It's a more tedious process than just putting everything on auto-tune.
A simple strict musician will go against it, but an artist wouldn't. Remember, it's human expression. Music is not a textbook, music is emotion and human expression. That's what I pointed out to you, you are a music textbook, not an artist.
Let me ask you one question, do you speak to people with an auto-tune voice, are your expressions totally in tune all the time???
As much as singing is singing, it's a form of communicating, musical in nature.
There are many different ways each producer has on this topic, it's a heavily argued topic. Some insist all vocal tracks have to be totally auto-tuned, while others disagree. I hope you look into what's your definition of right and wrong.. stop acclaiming what you think is right is right.. and do be open to the other side of the story.
'Sleeper's Tale' is some sort like a jazz/blues song, I would say the genre is Acid Jazz. This genre has a lot of expression in it, and it's not suppose to sound too robotic. A lot of slurring and stuff do not fit well into Autotune.. I like it natural! But again, I did compare each vowel between the auto-tuned version vs the raw expression, and denote what I see fit as more expressive to my liking. Now, this is a taste question. Music is art, and every artist has their own style.
As for the cents thing you are talking about in Auto-tune, I've tried another program called 'Melodyne' and altered vocals by cents too, if you ever tried what you say, really tried it, then compare back with raw, you will realize that it kills the expression totally. Something I don't expect you to know. There is this series of vowels and words that come natural when we speak and express ourselves, it flows. Try tuning it to cents like a robot, and it becomes mechanical.
As for the piano part, the same process was applied to it. So I will not drag on about the debate. Each note was checked between syncing and not syncing. Remember, off tempo due to anticipation and release creates expression. Another long debate. In other tracks, I did sync the piano parts to pure tempo. But in this case, I gave some anticipation/release off-tempos, cos the song, being to electronic, had problems of lagging expression due to everything being too in-time.
As for mixing, I feel you are pretty old skool. The old skool method likes to make things more natural, less digital sounding. Again another debate between digitally clear or raw warmth. Just as there are sound engineers preferring the sound of vinyls/cassette while others prefer digital CD. This is also an endless debate. The songs in the 1st album is electronic, so it follows the electronic trend of having more digital clear concept. Whichever way one is to argue, it's like what I would say a 'blade that cuts both ways'. There is no right no wrong here. It's all a measure of taste and likings again..nothing more.
As for qualified or not, everyone is qualified to have their own opinion. But whether I feel they are qualified to give a good feedback is up to me, not you. But what I'm referring to is, you are not qualified in this thread to give feedback, cos this thread is not a thread about you giving your feedback to my music. Read the topic properly, it's about a joke.. I'm not angry with you for remarking my joke, why should I? I'm angry with you becos you give feedback regarding my music in this thread when I didn't ask for it. That's what I call Trolling. If the thread topic is talking about something, follow that something. Switching topics, changing the subject, or going against the topic is trolling. If you don't find the topic interesting, feel free to be uninterested or not comment, no one is forcing you to.
As for music engineering degress etc and such, I don't have to further comment on that. As for showing to qualified engineers, I'm a sound engineer, a working one, so of cos I have a lot of sound engineer friends around me. They do not speak as you do, though each of us have our own styles, they know and fully concur what I've spoken here, many issues are very debative and subjective an it's up to the creator to choose which way they want. Remember, whatever you are saying can also be remarked negatively from the other point of view. Example, if you auto-tune every vocal part perfectly, one can also say it lost it's expression. I have ever sync a drum track to detail, every element sync to tempo, and comments was that it sounds like a drum machine, totally losing it's expression. Whichever way you choose, there is always another angle that debates back.. 'the red or the blue pill' syndrome.
Your restaurant example has no basis at all, like I said, if I opened a thread about music review for my own songs, and you comment as you do, I will react differently. But this thread is not about that. It's like you are going to a restaurant, and you make a big hoo-haa about what's happening outside the restaurant or about Singapore politics, and get angry, banging the table, or even some personal grudge you have on the chef.. see how the restaurant will kick you out..
By the way, my 1st message to you was frankly cos I don't quite like your attitude. You can say my joke is a load of horse manure, up to you, I put a joke so people can enjoy and have laughter, if you don't enjoy it, that's too bad..
But what I actually don't like is the way you seem to be ordering me around..which I didn't see fit. I mean, you are not in the position to order me around, you are not my boss, nor my client. I'm not giving you any service that you can simply talk as though you are on top and tell me what I should do or not..
I don't know if it was intentional on your part or not, maybe you should watch the way you speak.
Nope, I still think you are unqualified..
Autotune is a program.. but there is always that debate about auto-tuning every vowel and note of vocal singing.. it's the debate of old skool vs nu skool.. and this debate is endless..
But if you don't understand, I can explain the process..
I have 2 duplicates of the vocal track, one totally auto-tuned, the other not.. then I compare every vowel and syllabus, listening musicially to see which sounds better..
Then i mix both together, whichever part sounds better..
It's a more tedious process than just putting everything on auto-tune.
A simple strict musician will go against it, but an artist wouldn't. Remember, it's human expression. Music is not a textbook, music is emotion and human expression. That's what I pointed out to you, you are a music textbook, not an artist.
Let me ask you one question, do you speak to people with an auto-tune voice, are your expressions totally in tune all the time???
As much as singing is singing, it's a form of communicating, musical in nature.
There are many different ways each producer has on this topic, it's a heavily argued topic. Some insist all vocal tracks have to be totally auto-tuned, while others disagree. I hope you look into what's your definition of right and wrong.. stop acclaiming what you think is right is right.. and do be open to the other side of the story.
'Sleeper's Tale' is some sort like a jazz/blues song, I would say the genre is Acid Jazz. This genre has a lot of expression in it, and it's not suppose to sound too robotic. A lot of slurring and stuff do not fit well into Autotune.. I like it natural! But again, I did compare each vowel between the auto-tuned version vs the raw expression, and denote what I see fit as more expressive to my liking. Now, this is a taste question. Music is art, and every artist has their own style.
As for the cents thing you are talking about in Auto-tune, I've tried another program called 'Melodyne' and altered vocals by cents too, if you ever tried what you say, really tried it, then compare back with raw, you will realize that it kills the expression totally. Something I don't expect you to know. There is this series of vowels and words that come natural when we speak and express ourselves, it flows. Try tuning it to cents like a robot, and it becomes mechanical.
As for the piano part, the same process was applied to it. So I will not drag on about the debate. Each note was checked between syncing and not syncing. Remember, off tempo due to anticipation and release creates expression. Another long debate. In other tracks, I did sync the piano parts to pure tempo. But in this case, I gave some anticipation/release off-tempos, cos the song, being to electronic, had problems of lagging expression due to everything being too in-time.
As for mixing, I feel you are pretty old skool. The old skool method likes to make things more natural, less digital sounding. Again another debate between digitally clear or raw warmth. Just as there are sound engineers preferring the sound of vinyls/cassette while others prefer digital CD. This is also an endless debate. The songs in the 1st album is electronic, so it follows the electronic trend of having more digital clear concept. Whichever way one is to argue, it's like what I would say a 'blade that cuts both ways'. There is no right no wrong here. It's all a measure of taste and likings again..nothing more.
As for qualified or not, everyone is qualified to have their own opinion. But whether I feel they are qualified to give a good feedback is up to me, not you. But what I'm referring to is, you are not qualified in this thread to give feedback, cos this thread is not a thread about you giving your feedback to my music. Read the topic properly, it's about a joke.. I'm not angry with you for remarking my joke, why should I? I'm angry with you becos you give feedback regarding my music in this thread when I didn't ask for it. That's what I call Trolling. If the thread topic is talking about something, follow that something. Switching topics, changing the subject, or going against the topic is trolling. If you don't find the topic interesting, feel free to be uninterested or not comment, no one is forcing you to.
As for music engineering degress etc and such, I don't have to further comment on that. As for showing to qualified engineers, I'm a sound engineer, a working one, so of cos I have a lot of sound engineer friends around me. They do not speak as you do, though each of us have our own styles, they know and fully concur what I've spoken here, many issues are very debative and subjective an it's up to the creator to choose which way they want. Remember, whatever you are saying can also be remarked negatively from the other point of view. Example, if you auto-tune every vocal part perfectly, one can also say it lost it's expression. I have ever sync a drum track to detail, every element sync to tempo, and comments was that it sounds like a drum machine, totally losing it's expression. Whichever way you choose, there is always another angle that debates back.. 'the red or the blue pill' syndrome.
Your restaurant example has no basis at all, like I said, if I opened a thread about music review for my own songs, and you comment as you do, I will react differently. But this thread is not about that. It's like you are going to a restaurant, and you make a big hoo-haa about what's happening outside the restaurant or about Singapore politics, and get angry, banging the table, or even some personal grudge you have on the chef.. see how the restaurant will kick you out..
By the way, my 1st message to you was frankly cos I don't quite like your attitude. You can say my joke is a load of horse manure, up to you, I put a joke so people can enjoy and have laughter, if you don't enjoy it, that's too bad..
But what I actually don't like is the way you seem to be ordering me around..which I didn't see fit. I mean, you are not in the position to order me around, you are not my boss, nor my client. I'm not giving you any service that you can simply talk as though you are on top and tell me what I should do or not..
I don't know if it was intentional on your part or not, maybe you should watch the way you speak.
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Li Xiao'an
New member
You are right about not dragging on about the debate. It is pointless to have this debate when, at every turn, it is assumed that I don't know the slightest thing about recording, programming, and that I don't understand what expression is. (I've heard some brilliant work with melodyne, and my ears have 0.36hz accuracy in pitch perception)
I've certainly never heard any jazz/blues or acid jazz like yours. And i've heard a fair number of songs from these genres. I could go as far as to say that your song does not resemble these genres in the minutest detail, but then we'll get into another debate about where genres cross, what is music, why my opinion is unqualified and empty to you, so-
Perhaps you are breaking new ground, and I am mistaken. I am interested to see where this adventure leads. 8 years of work is no joke, and I respect your tenacity.
Like I said before, I bear no malice in the things I say, just an interest in music (and heated debate). So in spite of the aspersions you cast on my creativity and my alleged inferiority to carboxymoron, I have no ill will or hard feelings toward you.
I've certainly never heard any jazz/blues or acid jazz like yours. And i've heard a fair number of songs from these genres. I could go as far as to say that your song does not resemble these genres in the minutest detail, but then we'll get into another debate about where genres cross, what is music, why my opinion is unqualified and empty to you, so-
Perhaps you are breaking new ground, and I am mistaken. I am interested to see where this adventure leads. 8 years of work is no joke, and I respect your tenacity.
Like I said before, I bear no malice in the things I say, just an interest in music (and heated debate). So in spite of the aspersions you cast on my creativity and my alleged inferiority to carboxymoron, I have no ill will or hard feelings toward you.
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parablue74
New member
Yeap, the album is experimental..
I wouldn't be so upset with you if you spoke this in the right thread.. I guess we step off on the wrong foot. It's hard to accept someone's views if the impression of that someone is the person don't like you, then it all starts to feel bias as though the person is trying to blemish or have ill-intent.
A person with opposite viewpoints may not necessarily mean a bad thing, it just expands our way of viewing 'pictures'. When all is calm, feel free to PM me about your reviews of my other work and I can do the same for your work. It's about growing, and 8 years was my time of growth to create that album to that level from level 0 production ability, the album completed in 2009, and I'm still growing even for my age.
Looking on a bright side, whatever we have debated does give people viewing new insights to learning, if they are interested. So we are still contributing.
I wouldn't be so upset with you if you spoke this in the right thread.. I guess we step off on the wrong foot. It's hard to accept someone's views if the impression of that someone is the person don't like you, then it all starts to feel bias as though the person is trying to blemish or have ill-intent.
A person with opposite viewpoints may not necessarily mean a bad thing, it just expands our way of viewing 'pictures'. When all is calm, feel free to PM me about your reviews of my other work and I can do the same for your work. It's about growing, and 8 years was my time of growth to create that album to that level from level 0 production ability, the album completed in 2009, and I'm still growing even for my age.
Looking on a bright side, whatever we have debated does give people viewing new insights to learning, if they are interested. So we are still contributing.
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carboxymoron
New member
I don't know why my name keep appearing. I am not an international session guitarist like Xiao An and I am not a music producer like Mr Nam.
I just want to watch a guitar duel leh
I just want to watch a guitar duel leh
Godspeed64
Active member
Hurray for Justin! I'm proud of you mate!
xfigox
Member
parablue74
New member
I meant what I said, Carboxymoron. I heard your stuff, some interesting concepts there. A unique style you can develop there. If I may, I can give you a further suggestion to improve your work more. Maybe you can try adding foley sounds (you know like sound samples of background, eg people talking, animals, birds, wind blah blah blah), you could put those in the background and bring the listener to another surreal world. That could be more interesting.. cos your guitar sounds a bit lonely. You can get free samples around the internet.
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