Soft drum forum - a serious self examination

[underaged]

all pros started out as a nub.

if u want pros, nurture the young.

 

[caijunlong]

I don't know, but somehow Blofeld made alot of sense in his post.

He does! Everyone who answered in this thread is smart people. But that's not why I'm replying now anyway. haha.

I took about half an hour to read this thread. Here's my take.

Blofeld, are you very bored at home? I'm playing this game call Cabal now. www.cabalsea.com Check it out! :-D

Mel80 is right. Once we read and notice sarcasm, we know the person isn't being objective enough and had already get swayed by emotions. Like I did. So how much can you trust this person's opinion?

"Stale? The fun only just started. Just because you run out of words does not mean others do not have anything to say...in fact this thread has thrown up some members who have not posted for a long time. Potato not cooked yet...be patient."

Be patient? What are you waiting for? What's your purpose/intention of posting this thread? I really think we can all find something more meaningful.

 

[Blofeld]

This thread is keeping me much busier than I thought if I were to respond to all the comments from you all.

But it has also shown up something....there are quite a number among you who can express yourselves quite well, and have strong views of your own. I am only glad that my provocative comments have drawn you out, and hopefully make you think a little about the state of affairs here.

My intent all along is not to create any negative impact for this forum, and while I question some of the directions this forum appear to be taking, I am also appreciative of the progress it has made this far, esp providing a platform for the younger drummers to speak out.

It only takes a little prodding but many of you who posted here has persuaded me that there are people here who can contribute serious content and more mature thought.

Keep it up guys...at this rate (unless I get banned by the admin) we might get there yet !!

 

[Blofeld]

haha..welcome to the fray. You couldn't resist it could you? Gotcha.

You call me sarcastic (which I admit to - it's part of my tactics) but I can also call you cynical and perhaps hypocritical ...but this is not a perfect world and neither you and I are angels out to heal wounds and redeem souls. So get over it...

He does! Everyone who answered in this thread is smart people. But that's not why I'm replying now anyway. haha.

Recognising there are smart people around does not make you stupid. But you got sucked in didn't you?

I took about half an hour to read this thread. Here's my take.

It only took me 20 mins. to type it out....something not right here !!

Blofeld, are you very bored at home? I'm playing this game call Cabal now.

No..I am hardly at home. People who knows me knows how active I am, but I have one big advantage over some of you...despite my busy personal schedule, I don't have to work for a living and have no need to answer to any boss. That gives me a few hours a day headstart ..so I contribute my precious time to the general enlightenment of misguided youths and intellectually challenged individuals...and you'd think they will be grateful? haha..it's a funny world.

Mel80 is right. Once we read and notice sarcasm, we know the person isn't being objective enough and had already get swayed by emotions. Like I did. So how much can you trust this person's opinion?

How can you conclude that sarcasm, humour, cynicism and such tools of communication indicate a lack of objectivity and driven by emotion? Life and relationships would be deadly boring if we all talk and write like a BBC newscast...and even those are often laced with the same quirks you complain about. Like you say..I express my opinion, not giving a thesis on absolute truth. You can disagree or agree with me...you need not trust me. Get your thinking logic together before you fire blanks.

Be patient? What are you waiting for? What's your purpose/intention of posting this thread? I really think we can all find something more meaningful.

You read a sinister intent in situations you cannot fully comprehend. If you had read my posts a little more carefully (instead of rushing off to pick holes with it) you would see clearly what my intent was..without me spelling it out for you. What is going on in this thread is something that has never happened on this forum before...people actually thinking and talking in depth about other things other than technique, equipment, and the latest drumming sensation ! You want something more meaningful ? Would you recognise it if it was staring at you in the face and tapping you on the shoulder?

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

In other words our Bro Blofeld is doing us a big favour by injecting some life back here through this Thread, as he thinks that this forum is maybe getting a little boring as time pass (like the song titled – The Thrill Is Gone).

Now we know – this is what thrill and excites you then - - do enjoy yourself, but don’t overdo it ok or some people might get mistaken that you’re somehow sick in the head.

 

[Blofeld]

=underaged

The old nurture the young.

But nurturing is not restricted to soft love and care...the young must learn to take their knocks and falls, and get up even stronger.

Many of today's young have it too cushy...even NS is more cushy these days.

Where is the rugged society we talked about 20 years ago?

 

[Blofeld]

=RudimentalDrummer

Boring? You may have some rhythm here, bro.. but the Thrill did not exist.

No no..it may thrill and excite some, but not me. I used to do this for a living - but how can one overdo free and civilised expression? Sick in the head has nothing to do with it...as long as people have something to say, let them say it.

 

[Blofeld]

=mel80


That's a nice way of saying : " Don't sock it to me...but let me down gently even if it's patronising bullshit.."

 

[Blofeld]

=soft



I raise the issues..members here debate and discuss it...but the solution rests with the people who run the forum.

You are asking me to do your job for you ?

Hey you guys are doing a great job as it is...but improvements are always possible....and sometimes you have to find out the answers yourselves.

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

=Blofeld

so please come in here and let my dear Bro Blofeld knock you off the ground and give you a wake-up call you younger-ones...forget it, gone are the days of the older nuturing the young ones ..... this is the new world the real world, it's not a a brand new Philosophy but here maybe yes ...you get it?

Come to Soft where we the Senior Citizen will knock you down chailat chailat, but you must learn to get up again and again, and we will mould you to become a man where you will become tougher as you learn and no need to thank us for that - that's is on condition that you will keep on comming back here by all these hard-knocks


It's really funny hahahaha but True I would say in a way as saying goes - but applying this in this forum nor any forum ?

 

[Blofeld]

=RudimentalDrummer



Sure man....no hard feelings...never had any.

I am sure we are after the same ends perhaps choosing different methods to achieve them.

But you must admit that there is no harm in members letting out their thoughts every now and then... although it takes an old pot stirrer like me to do it?

The Oxford dictionary defines a FORUM as a medium for the exchange of views. Isn't that what I am encouraging everyone to do ?

By that definition, a Forum is less of a place to:

1. Buy and sell goods and services ( Classified ads better)

2. Promote people, images and reputations (a magazine or news media more suitable)

3. Make friends ( plenty of such sites on internet)

Just a thought !

 

[Blofeld]

=RudimentalDrummer


Ehh..not funny lah.

Don't forget we are living in PAP's Sinkapore...a land of great opportunities for the tough minded and no nonsense achievers.

Sooner or later our young will have to leave the comfort of their mama's loving arms, and take it on the chin like everyone else (except for the White Horse brigade).

Consider me your hated drill sergeant..but you may thank me for it one day ...hahaha !!

 

[mel80]

=mel80


That's a nice way of saying : " Don't sock it to me...but let me down gently even if it's patronising bullshit.."

I strongly believe that one can still convey messages and help others without lacing words with sarcasm. The intention can be well meaning, but it will all be pointless if there is any sarcasm and a holier than thou (limpeh ka ler kong) attitude. Yes, we all had it tough in the earlier years where people all learn through hard knocks and such. But times change and things evolve. What worked back then might not work as well at this day of age. Everyone needs to learn how to adapt and evolve.

Just imagine if all a teacher does is to tell his student "you're a stupid piece of crap. you're good for nothing". What are the odds of the kid growing up feeling motivated to improve? In my line of work, I can safely tell you that way will just kill many kids' future. Of course, some people will say that it is reverse psychology. There might be one or two who are able to convert that negative energy into motivation to succeed. But I can tell you that it will mostly destroy a kid's self belief. There are researches done to prove that reverse psychology has more repercussions than good outcomes.

IMHO, a person works best and will improve more if he/she is encouraged and nurtured. That way, he/she will grow up more self motivated.

 

[Blofeld]

I strongly believe that one can still convey messages and help others without lacing words with sarcasm. The intention can be well meaning, but it will all be pointless if there is any sarcasm and a holier than thou (limpeh ka ler kong) attitude.

You must be a true idealist if you believe that inflections such as sarcasm and cynicism do not occur in everyday communications, regardless of age or social standing. But you go a bit too far in implying that sarcasm conveys a holier than thou (limbehkalukong) attitude. I can safely say that discussions here are nowhere near that stage of condescension ..unless of course you have one heckava fragile psyche.

Yes, we all had it tough in the earlier years where people all learn through hard knocks and such. But times change and things evolve. What worked back then might not work as well at this day of age. Everyone needs to learn how to adapt and evolve.

Yes times change and some attitudes do evolve..for better or worse is debatable. What worked back then may not work now...but then again, what is not working now needs to be looked at again. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater?

Just imagine if all a teacher does is to tell his student "you're a stupid piece of crap. you're good for nothing". What are the odds of the kid growing up feeling motivated to improve?

You are obviously too young to have experienced the classroom culture of my generation and those before. My teachers do yell such insults at us, and even bang us on the head if we talk back. Did we grow up any more handicapped or warped by such "abuse"?? I thought we were the "pioneer" generation..forged in the fires of hardship and adversity. Your current generation of leaders come mainly from that generation whom teachers freely called "stupid fools and crap". Did we cry and run complain to mummy ? (The kids actually do that today !!) We just grit our teeth, and mumbled under our breath.."we'll show you, you bastard !"
The funny thing is..I am really thankful for the tough love those teachers showed us. I really wish kids today can experience some of that. Maybe then they wouldn't be the self centred wimps we see today.

In my line of work, I can safely tell you that way will just kill many kids' future. Of course, some people will say that it is reverse psychology. There might be one or two who are able to convert that negative energy into motivation to succeed. But I can tell you that it will mostly destroy a kid's self belief. There are researches done to prove that reverse psychology has more repercussions than good outcomes.

I'd agree with you if we are referring to kids in kindergarten and schools. But on this forum we are dealing not with kids but young adults. Many either have done...or are about to enter NS where in spite of the country club facilities and gourmet food, they still get verbally abused by their officers. How come no soft soft treatment ? I thought NS is supposed to prepare a young man to face life?

So when we debate or discuss issues here, there is no benefit in behaving like we are at an SDU match making party...try kopitiam...with it's fair share of cussing, spitting, and crude behaviour. That's reality man. better learn to live with it.

IMHO, a person works best and will improve more if he/she is encouraged and nurtured. That way, he/she will grow up more self motivated.

You are essentially saying the carrot works better than the stick. Numerous psychological studies, government stats, and corporate models will say you are wrong. To make that donkey run, you need both judicious measures of the stick and the carrot.

hahaha...take for example the government's current attempt to make people have more babies. So many incentives and gentle persuasion, still no progress. But if they pass a law tomorow doubling the income tax of people who don't marry or who are married but have no babies...see what happens.

 

[Blofeld]

From many of your replies, it's pretty obvious U thoroughly enjoy verbal jousting and debates on forums. According to James (soft), who owns this forum, none of that is under his objectives of creating soft.com.sg.

A forum, broadly speaking, is a medium where there is a free exchange of views. Some one here commented that this forum is to ENGAGE - EXCHANGE - ENCOURAGE. I am just following these ideals...I ENGAGE people here....I try to EXCHANGE views with them, and I actively ENCOURAGE them to do the same for me. Now if James has a drastically different objective, maybe he can enlighten me.

Sure, other forums might work the way you say they do, but is there a rule saying this HAS to conform to that? If you're looking for a good old debate there are SO many other avenues. Other forums, even youtube (although much of the comments are filled with stuff that's mostly immature and personal), this website called ted.com (a more intelligent youtube), all these would much more fulfill your desires as portrayed in this forum, and perceived by me.

So where am I not conforming? You mean to say that serious discussion and civilised debate are forbidden here? Sure I can go to other sites...and I do...but I also happen to be here. Are you politely asking me to leave?

Don't say im contradicting myself by even typing this out, I dont do this all the time, if ever at all. All I'm saying is if you don't like the way this forum is run, you don't have to remain here. And I am not saying this in hostility, I actually enjoy reading threads which have you posting replies in.

I never said I don't like the way this forum is run..but I have opinions on why it is not as good as it should be. If I really cannot tahan this forum, I wouldn't be here. You think I am paid to do this or what ?

What I am saying is that although what you are trying to bring into soft does have its good points like being able to spark more intelligent talk (or opportunities to brag in order to fan one's ego, whichever applicable), bring in pros which would definitely raise the value of this forum and etc, it also has its bad points. Creating something that is not under James' objectives of this forum, or worse, opposing the objectives, from the forum's POV, is not welcome at all.

There you go again !

What is it that I a doing that goes against Jame's objective...pray tell ?

Exactly which objectives am I supposed to be opposing?

Pardon me, but IMHO I think you are trying to stir shit where there is none.

If you're gonna question the objectives then, that is something you should speak to James himself about privately.
(phew long post)

I am sure James would speak to me long before that.

This thread is not about the forum owners or admin, pal...it's about it's inhabitants. Geddit ?

 

[Cheez]

As a matter of fact, I do have a few ideas.. but I would let members toss this potato around a while before I comment further.

So Blofield, I guess this potato has been tossed around for a while already. Do give your ideas on how to attract "Jimmy Lee...Tama...Pragasam...Tony Zee...Henson Beng...Louis Soliano...Boon Gee...Mat Nor...Fairoz...and some of the locally based expats like Shawn Kelley, Darrell Irvin, Eddie Layman..."

I raise the issues..members here debate and discuss it...but the solution rests with the people who run the forum.

You are asking me to do your job for you ?

Hey you guys are doing a great job as it is...but improvements are always possible....and sometimes you have to find out the answers yourselves.

The solution lies with everybody, and as you aptly pointed out, members are here to debate and discuss. I guess you are also a member, not just the threadstarter. If your intent is truly meant to be constructive and the betterment for soft, then please do contribute - ie give your suggestions.

I find the the above last quote (ie your comment) unconstructive, despite your initial claims to make this constructive. "Find out the answers yourselves" cannot be penned by somebody who REALLY wants SOFT to improve, but an unconstructive critic. We have suggestions, but we truly want to hear yours - honestly.

 

[mel80]

Blofield:
You can have your own set of beliefs and I have mine too. I may not necessarily subscribe to some of your beliefs, but I do agree with some of things you have pointed out (too much of gear ogling rather than music focus etc). We all live in a world full of different opinions, don't we?

The most important thing is to have mutual respect (which is still quite ok here, so far). But do be wary of not going overboard with the "I've been there done that. so I obviously know more than everyone here" style, as that will undermine the good intentions of this entire thread.

I mean, thinking from a teenager's perspective, which teenager would listen when someone senior tells him/her "last time I did this and that. nowadays you all cannot make it. now follow my old style"? A typical teenager would simply brush it off the senior as being naggy! lol.

I honestly believe that once the points have been put forth, let the people digest it all and give them time do what they understand about it. Let them decide what they want to do about it. Then move along.

 

[Vaiyen]

don't feed the tr*ll.

 

[Blofeld]

Blofield:
You can have your own set of beliefs and I have mine too. I may not necessarily subscribe to some of your beliefs, but I do agree with some of things you have pointed out (too much of gear ogling rather than music focus etc). We all live in a world full of different opinions, don't we?

Point taken. I respect that.


[QOUTE]The most important thing is to have mutual respect (which is still quite ok here, so far). But do be wary of not going overboard with the "I've been there done that. so I obviously know more than everyone here" style, as that will undermine the good intentions of this entire thread. [/QUOTE]

Yeah yeah..I know it grates with the younger people when some old fart comes along and keep reminding them that he has been there done that etc.... but I don't have to take that position do I ? This is a backlash on the entire social and political culture that exists in Singapore....that's why we have a Mentor Minister. I am sure the younger guys here will never understand, given that they have never been through that experience themselves.

I mean, thinking from a teenager's perspective, which teenager would listen when someone senior tells him/her "last time I did this and that. nowadays you all cannot make it. now follow my old style"? A typical teenager would simply brush it off the senior as being naggy! lol.

You are right..that is the problem these days...young people think they know it all and think their seniors know nuts. They need to be praised, encouraged and coddled..not scolded or whacked. Good luck to them..it's their futures - not mine.

I honestly believe that once the points have been put forth, let the people digest it all and give them time do what they understand about it. Let them decide what they want to do about it. Then move along.

As long as a discussion is sustained, then not all the points may have been put forth. Some points may never be digested or understood at all.And I am not expecting people to make decisions either. As far as this forum is concerned, any decisions should be rightly made by the forum management.

 

[Blofeld]

I find the the above last quote (ie your comment) unconstructive, despite your initial claims to make this constructive. "Find out the answers yourselves" cannot be penned by somebody who REALLY wants SOFT to improve, but an unconstructive critic. We have suggestions, but we truly want to hear yours - honestly.

You are making me to be a quiz master...demanding me to give the correct answers since you are bamboozled.."Got clue or not ah?"

That's the trouble with young people ..as I keep "nagging".

You want it easy..you want to be spoon fed...you get inpatient with the details..you just want to see the answers and move on.

If you have been following the gist of the many postings on this thread, both from me and some others...you may find part of the solution staring at you already.

But you want me to spell it out for you....tch tch tch !!