Roland V-Piano

[sid4iwpa]

This is a digital piano from Roland that exist of of this world because it is a virtual machine.

It can allow you to customize the piano sounds in any way that you like.

The adjustable parameters onboard works somewhat like a synthesizer that allows sound re-modelling. So say, if you want more metallic sound, or more more depth, or purposely make it slightly out of tune, all this can be done. It even have a triple mellow effect.

Check out all the videos on this website. You gotta to see this amazing piano. You can tweak the sound anyway you like. The web site link can be found here:

http://www.roland.com/V-Piano/
[Click the "video" menu to watch.]

 

[Cheez]

It's overhyped. Very seldom do we need to tweak details like hammers and strings in the piano. The subtleties wouldn't make any difference in a live stage situation. It may make some difference in a recording situation, but we can get better sounding softsamples at lower cost with similar tweaking capabilities (including resonance of strings etc), although not as detailed. Most of us will go for either the Steinway C/D, Bosendorfer 290 or Yamama C7 sounds. We won't need to tweak it to give us the "unique" sound nobody has.

The keys are good though. The moisture absorbent material does make it feel different. First thing you'll note is that the white keys are not as "white" but slightly beige. It definitely makes you feel like you are driving a Porsche when you are playing it (not that I've driven a Porsche before...).

So...its targeted at a niche market - collectors and ultra-piano enthusiasts. And since on stage, the subtlety will get lost in the mix, making it a stage piano is a mistake (ie no built-in speakers, and not so portable). They should have made built-in speakers and made it into a digital piano category instead of stage piano, because the place the V-piano will most likely sit is the living room rather than the stage.

Roland has always been in the lead for stage piano designs, but in this case, I wonder why they haven't put more thoughts into it. What is Roland thinking about????

 

[sid4iwpa]

i'm not an expert. after seeing their introductory video i thought this is a very fantastic machine. but shortly after i read your comments, i found a not so good review on the net. the comments are quite detailed:

the link can be found here:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Keyboard+And+MIDI/product/Roland/V-Piano/10/1

 

[Cheez]

Well, harmony central reviews need to be taken as a pinch of salt as well. Anybody can put their comments, and as you saw, can really swing from one extreme to another. (I've written reviews there as well, so I know ). The person who gave the bad review is really at the other extreme end. The GEM Promega, although a modelling digital piano like the V-piano, is light-years behind the V-piano in technology. The touch and sound is way worse than the V-piano. There's absolutely no competition.

He gave a low rating basing it on only one factor - cost. Not fair to give a low rating on every category just because of that. I doubt he even played on the V-piano, or spent sufficient time on it to give it a fair go. He probably just wrote it based on published specs.

 

[tmliew]

Re: digital/ stage piano

It's overhyped. Very seldom do we need to tweak details like hammers and strings in the piano. The subtleties wouldn't make any difference in a live stage situation. It may make some difference in a recording situation, but we can get better sounding softsamples at lower cost with similar tweaking capabilities (including resonance of strings etc), although not as detailed. Most of us will go for either the Steinway C/D, Bosendorfer 290 or Yamama C7 sounds. We won't need to tweak it to give us the "unique" sound nobody has.

The keys are good though. The moisture absorbent material does make it feel different. First thing you'll note is that the white keys are not as "white" but slightly beige. It definitely makes you feel like you are driving a Porsche when you are playing it (not that I've driven a Porsche before...).

So...its targeted at a niche market - collectors and ultra-piano enthusiasts. And since on stage, the subtlety will get lost in the mix, making it a stage piano is a mistake (ie no built-in speakers, and not so portable). They should have made built-in speakers and made it into a digital piano category instead of stage piano, because the place the V-piano will most likely sit is the living room rather than the stage.

Roland has always been in the lead for stage piano designs, but in this case, I wonder why they haven't put more thoughts into it. What is Roland thinking about????

Hi Cheez, I have seen some of your post and find that you have quite a lot of experience in digita / stage piano. Would like to consult you....

I am an experienced accoustic piano player for many years. But I am expatriate living in singapore, and am renting a place (hence can't get a real piano, despite longing to play it). Now, I am considering getting myself something that feels and sounds very like a real piano, yet at the same time is portable. What will you recommend?

I have visited yamaha and swee lee. Tested
1. CP300: good piano sound and feel, but rather expensive for the features available ($3000)
2. CP33: For me, it does not feel and sound as good as CP300
3. the new yamaha S70SX: pretty impressive piano sound and feel. Plus many other synthesizer function. Just $300+ more expensive than CP300. So far, my best choice.
4. roland RD300SX: looks pretty outdated. Piano sound not real at all

I have not tried Roland RD 700GX or RD300GX, but I read that RD700GX is very good. Is it true? However, I am unlikely to get RD700GX as it is too expensive ($5000+).

Read somethings about roland FP-4 & FP-7. Do you have any experience with these 2 models?

Do you have any other recommendation for me?

Hope to get some advice from you. Thanks

 

[Cheez]

Hi tmliew, the questions that would help one determine the type/model of keyboard would be:

1. What do you want to use the keyboard for? (home, live performance, sequencing and composition using PC etc)
2. What genres are you playing?
3. What is your budget?

By the way, have a read of the post in the sticky. That may help too. Let us know your answers to the above questions. By the way, welcome to SOFT!

 

[tmliew]

Hi tmliew, the questions that would help one determine the type/model of keyboard would be:

1. What do you want to use the keyboard for? (home, live performance, sequencing and composition using PC etc)
2. What genres are you playing?
3. What is your budget?

By the way, have a read of the post in the sticky. That may help too. Let us know your answers to the above questions. By the way, welcome to SOFT!

Hi Cheez.

1. I am using mainly for Home, rarely sequencing, very rarely live performance.
2. I play mainly church music, classical, pop
3. around $2000-3000.

Thanks

 

[kongwee]

I have visited yamaha and swee lee. Tested
1. CP300: good piano sound and feel, but rather expensive for the features available ($3000)
2. CP33: For me, it does not feel and sound as good as CP300
3. the new yamaha S70SX: pretty impressive piano sound and feel. Plus many other synthesizer function. Just $300+ more expensive than CP300. So far, my best choice.
4. roland RD300SX: looks pretty outdated. Piano sound not real at all

I have not tried Roland RD 700GX or RD300GX, but I read that RD700GX is very good. Is it true? However, I am unlikely to get RD700GX as it is too expensive ($5000+).

Read somethings about roland FP-4 & FP-7. Do you have any experience with these 2 models?

Hope to get some advice from you. Thanks

People tend to go Roland more. It is better for band, and built like tank.
Model like RD-700SX and RD-700GX,Fantom series are usually made in Japan.
Yamaha has better acoustic sound, but tend to break down often.

 

[SilverBeast]

People tend to go Roland more. It is better for band, and built like tank.
Model like RD-700SX and RD-700GX,Fantom series are usually made in Japan.
Yamaha has better acoustic sound, but tend to break down often.

But look at the Roland prices at SL, it's...! I am a great fan of Roland over other brands but the prices just puts me off.

The V-piano is unique in its technology coz it "breaks down" variable components of a piano to create the supposedly perfect piano sample as compared to the commonly used recorded sampled waveform technology. There's a software version, Pianoteq, that Cheez mentioned last time that does the same and at a more affordable price. Indeed, it sounded wonderful as used by one of the softies in her tracks http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=966243 . I think the V-piano might eventually end up sitting next to the Oasys and be worshipped.

Based on my experience playing with digital pianos, the perfect digital piano is the integration of good piano sound, good key touch and good audio output. Remember the keyword is "integration", but most important of all, the player has to like it!

 

[Cheez]

Tmliew, if it's mainly used for home and for mainly church/classical/pop, a digital piano would be best. For that, Yamaha P series of Roland FP series may help since they all have built-in speakers. The Roland FP series are OK. The earlier FP series aren't as good at touch and sound, but I believe the later ones are better. I haven't tried out the later FP series - you'll have to check them out yourself.

If you get a stage piano (Yamaha CP or Roland RD series), you'll need to get external monitor speakers, which affect your budget. One note - when checking out the Roland RD series (ie in Swee Lee), use headphones instead of the monitor speakers they provided. The monitor speakers used in Swee Lee do not do the RD justice. The RD piano sounds way surpasses Yamaha. Yamaha has a signature tinkle at the high register which is really irritating for me. Roland piano is even throughout and more dynamic (the dynamic progression is smoother as well when you play from pp to ff). Roland strings are also realistic and expressive (Roland is more geared towards acoustic playing). Yamaha sounds is more all-rounded for acoustic and other stuff. Korg is geared more towards electronic. So the choice depends on your genre of preference.

Touch-wise, Yamaha beats all. However, the later Roland are getting pretty good as well. Roland is a tad lighter than Yamaha, but both are really good. Depending on your preference.

 

[tmliew]

Tmliew, if it's mainly used for home and for mainly church/classical/pop, a digital piano would be best. For that, Yamaha P series of Roland FP series may help since they all have built-in speakers. The Roland FP series are OK. The earlier FP series aren't as good at touch and sound, but I believe the later ones are better. I haven't tried out the later FP series - you'll have to check them out yourself.

If you get a stage piano (Yamaha CP or Roland RD series), you'll need to get external monitor speakers, which affect your budget. One note - when checking out the Roland RD series (ie in Swee Lee), use headphones instead of the monitor speakers they provided. The monitor speakers used in Swee Lee do not do the RD justice. The RD piano sounds way surpasses Yamaha. Yamaha has a signature tinkle at the high register which is really irritating for me. Roland piano is even throughout and more dynamic (the dynamic progression is smoother as well when you play from pp to ff). Roland strings are also realistic and expressive (Roland is more geared towards acoustic playing). Yamaha sounds is more all-rounded for acoustic and other stuff. Korg is geared more towards electronic. So the choice depends on your genre of preference.

Touch-wise, Yamaha beats all. However, the later Roland are getting pretty good as well. Roland is a tad lighter than Yamaha, but both are really good. Depending on your preference.

Hi there. I have tried the P155 in Yamaha. Did not like the feel/sound, even though it is much cheaper. Swee lee did not have FP series for demo, so not very sure as well.

I don't mind using headphones at home.

I tried RD300SX, but not the RD300GX. RD300SX also did not sound nice to me. Of course it may also be that I used the monitor speakers. I was told that the sound in RD 300GX is much better. Is it true?

I think I do agree on that Roland is dynamic. Did not notice much about yamaha's. Do you mean you can notice gaps in yamaha's dynamic progression? I did test the Yamaha S90SX and CP300 using headphone. Did not notice much that day as it was a very noisy environment.

I was impressed by the specs of the new S90Sx, with 450MB of sound wave, and 125mb of piano sound, including a new concert grand piano sound (on top of the old CPIII grand piano sound). Also the S90 has 4 equalizers compared to 2 in RD300GX.

What I want is a good piano which brings satisfaction when I play, at a reasonable price. I heard that RD700GX is very good, but the price is too much for me ($5000+). Just not sure whether RD300GX is as good.

 

[kongwee]

Only RD700GX equipped with Fantom G sound engine.

 

[Cheez]

I would still suggest a digital piano (ie P or FP). But if you want to go the stage piano way, either CP or RD will do. For the RD, the Fantom engine is not necessary esp if you are going to focus on acoustic sounds. The main difference between GX and SX is the audio key function (lets you play mp3 files with your playing, tweak the mp3 file by splicing it into sections which you can control, and mute the vocals etc - which is useful for church music by the way). If you are not going to use that often, then go for the RD700SX. Is the RD700GX really that expensive? Suggestion is that RD300SX or RD300GX should suffice your needs, esp if you are not going to do sequencing and not doing live performance. You need to save money for monitor speakers.

The Yamaha piano sounds' problems is something to do with their raw recording of the samples. They had to use multiple elements for one patch to get the sound you hear (4 elements per patch is not unusual, thereby significantly decreasing the polyphony). Roland raw sound is excellent, hence you get really good sound at high polyphony.

As for equalizers, you really don't need that. It's useful mainly in a live situation. But even that, a simple "brighten" or "darken" is sufficient most of the time (to let the sound cut through the mix and depending on the acoustics of the performing hall). Focus on getting good sound. For piano, once you get a good sound you like, you'll end up spending hours playing because of the sheer joy of listening to the sound.

But if you REALLY want good sound, go for software. We don't talk about MB nowadays. It's always been GB size pianos, and anything from 8 samples/note to 100 samples/note. Nothing in hardware comes close.

As for whether RD300GX sounds better than RD300SX - well, it's "supposedly" so. New waveforms, new patches. So I guess that's right. But really, you HAVE to use headphones or proper monitor speakers. You'll hear the difference. My church uses the ancient RD150, and it still sounds good (I'm biased - since I bought the RD150 for my church ).

 

[SilverBeast]

Hi there. I have tried the P155 in Yamaha. Did not like the feel/sound, even though it is much cheaper. Swee lee did not have FP series for demo, so not very sure as well.

I don't mind using headphones at home.

I tried RD300SX, but not the RD300GX. RD300SX also did not sound nice to me. Of course it may also be that I used the monitor speakers. I was told that the sound in RD 300GX is much better. Is it true?

I think I do agree on that Roland is dynamic. Did not notice much about yamaha's. Do you mean you can notice gaps in yamaha's dynamic progression? I did test the Yamaha S90SX and CP300 using headphone. Did not notice much that day as it was a very noisy environment.

I was impressed by the specs of the new S90Sx, with 450MB of sound wave, and 125mb of piano sound, including a new concert grand piano sound (on top of the old CPIII grand piano sound). Also the S90 has 4 equalizers compared to 2 in RD300GX.

What I want is a good piano which brings satisfaction when I play, at a reasonable price. I heard that RD700GX is very good, but the price is too much for me ($5000+). Just not sure whether RD300GX is as good.

Is Kawai MP5, ES6, CL30, Kurzweil PC3X and Korg SV-1 in your list? But do check out their availability of after sales technical service and don't forget to budget for your good monitor speakers. Whatever your choice, remember it's the integration of piano sample, touch and audio output plus your liking!

 

[tmliew]

I have always been fascinated by Roland's sound, and not very impressed by Yamaha's. (played both before in church). The only difference now, I have tried hands-on Yamaha keyboard, but not most roland's (as they are not available in SL).

Naturally, I feel more secure buying a keyboard I have tried than not.

Can I throw this question to the forum. I have a few shortlisted ones here: Yamaha CP300, ROland RD300GX, Roland FP-4. Which one will you choose?

And I was thinking of doing away with monitor speaker and just use headphone. Do you think I can survive without any monitor speaker, esp for the keyboards without build-in speakers?

 

[kongwee]

If you could get Roland RD-700SX, then get it instead of RD-3000GX.
Better keybed plus full Fantom X sound engine if I could remember.
Personally, I am not a fan of bulit-in-speaker on two factor. Magnetic interference, and electric load fluculation.

 

[Cheez]

Monitor speakers is a must for keyboards without built-in speakers. By the way, I forgot that the CP300 comes with built-in speakers. it's one of the few stage pianos (actually, the only one I know) that comes with built-in speakers. While the piano sound may not be on the same par as the Roland, the excellent speaker system made all the difference. The speakers reverberates the entire body (almost like a subwoofer was built in), making playing it a real joy. The CP300 speaker system never cease to amaze me (as with it's predecessor, P250).

So...if you don't want to mess around with monitor speakers, the CP300 is a very good choice. Touch is also excellent (as with most higher-end Yamaha keyboards). I believe the speaker system is better than the P series.

 

[kongwee]

Than you must really like the one smaller than V-Piano, tons of speaker built in, very modern looking, Yamaha......erm....what that model. Anyway, the list price is $9999.

 

[tmliew]

I was thinking of getting one without build in speaker, and just use headphone at home. Don't really forsee any problem. What do you think?

I read through most of the user manual of RD300GX, RD700SX and RD700GX. Found that RD300GX and RD700GX has this extra function of tweaking the lid opening, string resonance, hammer sound, damper noise. I thought that should be good. What do you think?

 

[tmliew]

CP300 is definitely one serious consideration for me. But judging by the likelihood that I will usually play piano later at night and the need for me to use headphone most of the time - I am worried that the CP300 piano sound may not be very great on headphone (as cheez previously mentioned) and may not satisfy me.

I prefer a warmth piano sound (ie in roland) than a bright one (which I found many users of CP300 complained of)