Dunno about RD300GX, but RD700GX is still made in japan. My fantom S88 is made in Japan, and it getting dirty but still work great for 4 years.
Roland V-Piano
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Dunno about RD300GX, but RD700GX is still made in japan. My fantom S88 is made in Japan, and it getting dirty but still work great for 4 years.
iansoh
Moderator
just buy the digital piano which you feel most comfortable playing. all the advanced features (piano lid, string resoanance) are just gimmicks to make you think you're paying good money for some very good technology. in reality, it's only useful to a very small group of users.
at the end of the day, if you listen to us and buy something which your heart isn't totally settled with, you're not gonna be happy with the money you spent. even if you buy something that we all think is an inferior product, but you really like it, it's money well spent.
the cp300, fp4, rd300gx are all great pianos in their own right. summarily, it's a good shortlist. other than just the touch/sound and technical features, there are other "human" factors you should pay more attention to which will help you make up your mind: e.g. usability (or user friendliness), cost, aesthetic appeal
my personal experience: I bought the white FP4 because it's really simple to use and the white colour just looks awesome everywhere i bring it. everyone who's seen it loves it. plus it has built-in speakers (playing on headphones is actually tiring) which is really convenient and cost-effective.
at the end of the day, if you listen to us and buy something which your heart isn't totally settled with, you're not gonna be happy with the money you spent. even if you buy something that we all think is an inferior product, but you really like it, it's money well spent.
the cp300, fp4, rd300gx are all great pianos in their own right. summarily, it's a good shortlist. other than just the touch/sound and technical features, there are other "human" factors you should pay more attention to which will help you make up your mind: e.g. usability (or user friendliness), cost, aesthetic appeal
my personal experience: I bought the white FP4 because it's really simple to use and the white colour just looks awesome everywhere i bring it. everyone who's seen it loves it. plus it has built-in speakers (playing on headphones is actually tiring) which is really convenient and cost-effective.
SilverBeast
New member
...then bring your headphone and go try them out
...I did that before I bought my Trinity lights years ago 
. If you don't have one, getting an audio techica or sennheisser won't go wrong. BTW, I'm sure you are aware of the sale that's going on almost everywhere now. So, it's the buyer's market...seize it.It got big difference, but question is whether you bother to do it.:mrgreen:
Cheez
Moderator
Yes, I do it. In my softsample piano(s), I adjusted the resonance, pedaling noises, lid opening angles etc etc to the minutest detail - then after it's done, I hardly ever touch it again. That's the end of the function. You can switch the settings to extreme ends of the spectrum - and the differences are there, but sound so bad that one will never use it anyway. It's the settings in the middle, trying to hit the "sweet spot" to one's preference. That's actually quite subtle. So...the functions to adjust string resonance/hammers/lids etc are nice, but in a hardware piano sound, I would rather have a good raw sample sound than all the tweakings. It's the one thing that I can give up easily compared to other features.
And in a hardware digital piano, there are usually already patches for the bright/hard "rock piano" and the darker/soft "concert piano" and anything in between, with settings already pre-programmed. They are usable for most, if not all, situations of piano playing. With slight EQ changes for playing in different acoustic halls, you don't really need anything else.
And in a hardware digital piano, there are usually already patches for the bright/hard "rock piano" and the darker/soft "concert piano" and anything in between, with settings already pre-programmed. They are usable for most, if not all, situations of piano playing. With slight EQ changes for playing in different acoustic halls, you don't really need anything else.
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Hi guys, just an update on my search for a keyboard, after playing/testing for at least 1 hour each at roland and yamaha.
1. Tested roland's V piano and RD700GX. Roland's piano did not satisfy me. The piano sound felt muffled / not solid, and if I close my eyes, I don't feel like hearing a real piano. Don't like the touch action at all, even on the very expensive V piano (despite the whatever "ivory" stuff they added)
2. FP4's on board speaker is definitely bad.
3. Yamaha keyboard's action is very very good. Tested CP300 (the second time). Agreed with many that it is definitely a very good piano to play. Piano sound feels solid. Can also feel the speaker's resonance when playing, which makes it more real. At higher velocity can hear this "tingling sound", but it does not irritate me anyway. (Probably because I grew up playing yamaha, and the only piano that amazed me so far was one model of the yamaha accoustic piano) Did not sound as good on headphone, but with some tweaking with the EQ, sound can be improved
4. Also tested yamaha new S90XS. Action not as great as CP300. Piano sound similar. The new S6 piano sound not as good as the previous CFIIIS piano sound. The other sounds are also good.
I think I am coming to a conclusion soon already. I will have to pass Roland (despite the good review, didn't taste good with me). Will either get CP300 or S90XS.
This review will probably make me a yamaha fan and hopefully this information with help others as well...
1. Tested roland's V piano and RD700GX. Roland's piano did not satisfy me. The piano sound felt muffled / not solid, and if I close my eyes, I don't feel like hearing a real piano. Don't like the touch action at all, even on the very expensive V piano (despite the whatever "ivory" stuff they added)
2. FP4's on board speaker is definitely bad.
3. Yamaha keyboard's action is very very good. Tested CP300 (the second time). Agreed with many that it is definitely a very good piano to play. Piano sound feels solid. Can also feel the speaker's resonance when playing, which makes it more real. At higher velocity can hear this "tingling sound", but it does not irritate me anyway. (Probably because I grew up playing yamaha, and the only piano that amazed me so far was one model of the yamaha accoustic piano) Did not sound as good on headphone, but with some tweaking with the EQ, sound can be improved
4. Also tested yamaha new S90XS. Action not as great as CP300. Piano sound similar. The new S6 piano sound not as good as the previous CFIIIS piano sound. The other sounds are also good.
I think I am coming to a conclusion soon already. I will have to pass Roland (despite the good review, didn't taste good with me). Will either get CP300 or S90XS.
This review will probably make me a yamaha fan
and hopefully this information with help others as well...
Cheez
Moderator
Congratulations! I believe you'll enjoy the CP300. By the way, I did own the Roland RD series in the past. However, currently I have a Yamaha, even though I really cannot stand the piano sound (some layered piano patches have the piano sound delay at infinity - madness). But I eventually got it because of the touch. That's because I use softsamplers for sound. That's one possibility for you in the future - if you are like me who is really picky about realistic sounds, once you venture into softsamples, you'll find that all hardware sound just don't make it anymore. It's no turning back...
By the way, did you play around with the EQ in the Roland?
By the way, did you play around with the EQ in the Roland?
I tried the roland's V piano, but find the touch a bit too hard. Can get finger fatigue after playing for a while. Don't know why, but I just have this feeling that roland's sound is slightly delayed (by very minute second) after you pressed the key. It is just not right for me..... Can't explain exactly.
CP300's touch is just like the usual Yamaha accoustic piano, which I liked very much. In fact, even among the accoustic piano, I only like yamaha's touch and never liked Kawai's and a few other brands I played before.
As for roland's sound, the V piano sounds more real than RD700GX. More solid. But, it is a bit too solid for me (and when compared with yamaha's).
RD700GX's sound: I mainly tried it with the EQ turned off. When I purposely play the notes to the loudest possible (max volume, very light touch), you can hear that the piano sound is VERY muffled and rounded. Did tried to adjust the EQ a bit, but not very motivated as the sound is not right to me to begin with.
I personally prefer piano sounds to be slightly bright, and not muffled/rounded. I understand that some people like the roland sound because it does sound warmth. But to me, warmth or not, it must first sound like a piano. That's why I prefer yamaha's sound, even though there is this ?tingling sound at high velocity (a compromise).
Most likely I will be getting a CP300.
Cheez, is yours Cp300 also, as I do have some questions to ask you (or any Cp300 users here):
1. Are you able to carry the CP300 around 1-person (considering the weight)?
2. For connection to computer with USB, where do I get the usb cable?
3. I understand that CP300 does not come with software bundle. where can I get the software? And what are the functions available in the computer?
4. I probably may record in the CP300 using it's sequencer. But the onboard memory is rather small and how do I transfer my recordings to computer if the memory is full?
5. You mentioned about substituting the hardware sound with a software piano sound. How do I do that?
Cheez
Moderator
Have you tried the other Roland piano patches other than the default? They do have brighter piano patches. Everybody test keyboards differently. Because piano sounds are so important, I usually test them for at least 10 minutes per piano patch. If you spend less than 20-30 minutes on a keyboard, you haven't really tested the keyboard. Of course, if you play the patch at ppp turning the volume to max, you get a loud muffled sound. That's how it should sound. You should set the volume to middle, then play from ppp to fff. How I test a keyboard:
1. Select default piano patch - first of all.
2. Play generally - pop and jazzy. Idea is to get a quick feel of the sound and touch. Play slow and fast improvisations to get a feel of the key response.
3. Then play a very soft piece (e.g. Claire de Lune). Followed by a very loud piece (e.g. Grieg's Piano Concerto opening - good piece since it ranges all the way from the highest notes to the lowest notes; or my favorite: Warsaw Concerto).
4. Play very low notes (lowest octaves) from ppp to fff (usually octave tremolo). Then the highest notes from ppp to fff.
5. Play individual notes esp low and high ones and let them decay naturally. Play them ppp to fff as well.
6. Play around with sustain pedal and soft pedal and listen for sustain resonance (where applicable).
7. Play around quickly again on any jazzy or pop piece to get a general feel again (usually my own composition since I usually write with frequent key modulations that let me cover keys involving lots of black keys - to get a feel of the touch and response again).
And that's just one patch. If I'm really interested in the keyboard, I would do that for all the piano patches (otherwise I would focus on the main sounds). Then focus on the "best" patch and play with it more. For other non-piano patches, there are different ways of testing, but too much to put down here (since we are focusing on the piano sound). But I would still concentrate on the bread-and-butter keyboard sounds - E pianos (focusing on the DX sound that I love, and the Rhodes), organs (esp B3 with focus on the leslie effect), clavs, and strings. If it's a stage piano, I would spend quite a considerable time playing with layering piano/e-piano with strings/pads, trying out different combinations and playing around with the volume control for individual layer (testing mainly for how good it mixes, whether the fader is long enough for me to control the dynamics comfortably, and indirectly the polyphony - making sure there's no sudden polyphony cut offs with normal playing). For polyphony, never trust the specs. It depends on how the patches are programmed. A patch heavy with combined elements runs out of polyphony quickly when layered. So always test polyphony in real layering playing conditions.
CP300 is not light. It's actually quite huge because of the speakers. You can get a USB cable from any computer shop. About software, it's a new topic entirely. Perhaps in another thread? But you should just focus on the keyboard first and expand into software later. You'll need to consider your computer and specs, audio interface, the actual software etc - which means more $.
I have a S90. Old already. But I got it because it's non-graded. That's important because I do sequencing of other things other than piano. I needed one with even key weights.
As what I wrote in a thread long ago, the problem I have with the CP300 is the volume faders. The resting position of the faders is in the middle, not the lowest "zero" position. There's a "click" in the fader when you move past that middle point. That's very silly of Yamaha to do that - the only keyboard that does it!!!! They don't do that for their other keyboards. It makes controlling volume of layered patches uneven. And I use layering very often - faders and mod wheels are very important for me. But other than that, CP300 is a beautiful instrument. Esp the speakers...can't praise the speakers enough! The reverberation...ooohhhh! For home, it's almost the "perfect" keyboard. But for stage, built-in speakers are no longer important. Here's where Roland is going to shine because of the ergonomics. Roland stage pianos are built for the live player. They have thought of everything to make the live player control and play the keyboard well.
1. Select default piano patch - first of all.
2. Play generally - pop and jazzy. Idea is to get a quick feel of the sound and touch. Play slow and fast improvisations to get a feel of the key response.
3. Then play a very soft piece (e.g. Claire de Lune). Followed by a very loud piece (e.g. Grieg's Piano Concerto opening - good piece since it ranges all the way from the highest notes to the lowest notes; or my favorite: Warsaw Concerto).
4. Play very low notes (lowest octaves) from ppp to fff (usually octave tremolo). Then the highest notes from ppp to fff.
5. Play individual notes esp low and high ones and let them decay naturally. Play them ppp to fff as well.
6. Play around with sustain pedal and soft pedal and listen for sustain resonance (where applicable).
7. Play around quickly again on any jazzy or pop piece to get a general feel again (usually my own composition
since I usually write with frequent key modulations that let me cover keys involving lots of black keys - to get a feel of the touch and response again).And that's just one patch. If I'm really interested in the keyboard, I would do that for all the piano patches (otherwise I would focus on the main sounds). Then focus on the "best" patch and play with it more. For other non-piano patches, there are different ways of testing, but too much to put down here (since we are focusing on the piano sound). But I would still concentrate on the bread-and-butter keyboard sounds - E pianos (focusing on the DX sound that I love, and the Rhodes), organs (esp B3 with focus on the leslie effect), clavs, and strings. If it's a stage piano, I would spend quite a considerable time playing with layering piano/e-piano with strings/pads, trying out different combinations and playing around with the volume control for individual layer (testing mainly for how good it mixes, whether the fader is long enough for me to control the dynamics comfortably, and indirectly the polyphony - making sure there's no sudden polyphony cut offs with normal playing). For polyphony, never trust the specs. It depends on how the patches are programmed. A patch heavy with combined elements runs out of polyphony quickly when layered. So always test polyphony in real layering playing conditions.
CP300 is not light. It's actually quite huge because of the speakers. You can get a USB cable from any computer shop. About software, it's a new topic entirely. Perhaps in another thread? But you should just focus on the keyboard first and expand into software later. You'll need to consider your computer and specs, audio interface, the actual software etc - which means more $.
I have a S90. Old already. But I got it because it's non-graded. That's important because I do sequencing of other things other than piano. I needed one with even key weights.
As what I wrote in a thread long ago, the problem I have with the CP300 is the volume faders. The resting position of the faders is in the middle, not the lowest "zero" position. There's a "click" in the fader when you move past that middle point. That's very silly of Yamaha to do that - the only keyboard that does it!!!! They don't do that for their other keyboards. It makes controlling volume of layered patches uneven. And I use layering very often - faders and mod wheels are very important for me. But other than that, CP300 is a beautiful instrument. Esp the speakers...can't praise the speakers enough! The reverberation...ooohhhh! For home, it's almost the "perfect" keyboard. But for stage, built-in speakers are no longer important. Here's where Roland is going to shine because of the ergonomics. Roland stage pianos are built for the live player. They have thought of everything to make the live player control and play the keyboard well.
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V piano is available at Swee lee bras brasah, around $8000.
Cheez, I tested the RD700GX's main few piano sounds mainly (ie. those piano sounds available at one touch piano). I spent 30 min testing V piano and more than 30 min testing 700GX.
I tested RD300SX one week before, and already noticed this "muffled" sound. Then I listen to samples of Roland and yamaha on youtube, and also noticed this.
When I first tried on RD700GX, that was the immediate impression I had. Tried around a few patches to get rid of this funny feeling, couldn't.
The reason I mentioned about trying it at the loudest - that was not the only way I tested, but that was the most obvious and objective test I had to confirm my feeling. In contrast, by doing the same thing on a Yamaha CFIIIS patch, I can immediately feel the solidness in the sound at max volume. This is VERY obvious. Having said that, yamaha also has this kind of muffled piano sound, as in the case of the new C6 piano patch on S90XS (sounded similar to RD700GX).
To qualify things in the proper context, not that being "muffled" means that it is bad, but it's just not my taste.
I am concerned about transferring recordings to computer as CP300 has no direct connection to USB thumb drive for file transfer (unlike RD700GX or S90XS), which may limit the number of recording I have. I do playback my own recordings to listen to what I have played.
Cheez, I tested the RD700GX's main few piano sounds mainly (ie. those piano sounds available at one touch piano). I spent 30 min testing V piano and more than 30 min testing 700GX.
I tested RD300SX one week before, and already noticed this "muffled" sound. Then I listen to samples of Roland and yamaha on youtube, and also noticed this.
When I first tried on RD700GX, that was the immediate impression I had. Tried around a few patches to get rid of this funny feeling, couldn't.
The reason I mentioned about trying it at the loudest - that was not the only way I tested, but that was the most obvious and objective test I had to confirm my feeling. In contrast, by doing the same thing on a Yamaha CFIIIS patch, I can immediately feel the solidness in the sound at max volume. This is VERY obvious. Having said that, yamaha also has this kind of muffled piano sound, as in the case of the new C6 piano patch on S90XS (sounded similar to RD700GX).
To qualify things in the proper context, not that being "muffled" means that it is bad, but it's just not my taste.
I am concerned about transferring recordings to computer as CP300 has no direct connection to USB thumb drive for file transfer (unlike RD700GX or S90XS), which may limit the number of recording I have. I do playback my own recordings to listen to what I have played.
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Cheez
Moderator
For simple playback, I believe the built-in recording function of the CP300 should suffice. If you want to do proper recording, you can try using your PC with free software like Audacity (as a start). If you want better quality, then you'll need an audio interface other than the one that comes with your computer. If you want the best quality, you'll need softsamplers as the recording are all routed internally (entirely digital). My suggestion is try step-wise.
I don't experience any drop offs, if that's what you mean. I don't use the USB connection. I connect the midi out directly with my audio interface's midi input. And it triggers my softsampler/softsynths.
If you intend to bring your keyboard around, you'll need a case, not a bag. I don't think there's a bag large enough for the CP300, or strong enough to carry that weight. But if you are really going to be bringing it around, you may want to consider a lighter alternative.
I don't experience any drop offs, if that's what you mean. I don't use the USB connection. I connect the midi out directly with my audio interface's midi input. And it triggers my softsampler/softsynths.
If you intend to bring your keyboard around, you'll need a case, not a bag. I don't think there's a bag large enough for the CP300, or strong enough to carry that weight. But if you are really going to be bringing it around, you may want to consider a lighter alternative.
for me, as a home-user, 2 important factors in choosing a digital piano are...
"Touch" and Sound (speakers).
This is a personal preference, but I like Yamaha's digital piano "touch". The weight feels good, just right.
Sound - the quality of the built-in speakers, and their placement make a lot of difference. I've been using a hand-me-down clavinova for years - its speakers are quite large and built below the keyboard, so the piano sounds rich and resonant.
I tried a friend's yamaha digital piano where the speakers are placed on top, and found it sounded very thin, even though it's a much newer model.
I find that if the instrument's sound doesn't inspire you, you'll just not feel motivated to play it.
The piano sound from V Piano sounds very promising (at least from my computer speakers). Of course, while you can get the same (and better) sounds from softwares, but hooking the digital piano to the computer and then the speakers, that isn't exactly very elegant.
"Touch" and Sound (speakers).
This is a personal preference, but I like Yamaha's digital piano "touch". The weight feels good, just right.
Sound - the quality of the built-in speakers, and their placement make a lot of difference. I've been using a hand-me-down clavinova for years - its speakers are quite large and built below the keyboard, so the piano sounds rich and resonant.
I tried a friend's yamaha digital piano where the speakers are placed on top, and found it sounded very thin, even though it's a much newer model.
I find that if the instrument's sound doesn't inspire you, you'll just not feel motivated to play it.
The piano sound from V Piano sounds very promising (at least from my computer speakers). Of course, while you can get the same (and better) sounds from softwares, but hooking the digital piano to the computer and then the speakers, that isn't exactly very elegant.
SilverBeast
New member
New Yamaha CP Series!
The new Yamaha CP series stage pianos are out!
The flagship CP1 seems to be a contender for the the V-piano, but then again, they each emulate different grand pianos. Based on Jap price, the flagship CP1 might likely cost around S$8-10k.
It's Steinway & Boesendorfer vs Yamaha CF & S6...Take your pick folks (hardware lover folks)!...Better still, get both if your have the dough !
The new Yamaha CP series stage pianos are out!
The flagship CP1 seems to be a contender for the the V-piano, but then again, they each emulate different grand pianos. Based on Jap price, the flagship CP1 might likely cost around S$8-10k.
It's Steinway & Boesendorfer vs Yamaha CF & S6...Take your pick folks (hardware lover folks)
!...Better still, get both if your have the dough !
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SilverBeast
New member
Which Clavinova DP did you try? It would be unfair to discredit the series if you had not tried their flagship model before. However, the flagship model is always with wooden keys...so maybe not fair for CP300
.A good digital piano is really about good touch, good piano sample and good amplification. I realised this when I momentarily had a CLP270. One would really appreciate the attention to detail Yamaha had put into making a more refined Clavinova DP. At least, I was.
Back to your question again, perhaps one difference is the amplification angle of the speakers of the CP300 and the Clavinova DP you played, which affected the way you hear them. But then again, you can't compare between the two families coz they are built with different aims and for different purposes.
Really, go try their flagship model CLP380 and its predecessor CLP280 to judge for yourself again. Incidentally, they sound different to me too!
