Reviving the Keyboard Section!

[Cheez]

Need help, people! It may appear that the keyboard section is pretty quiet. But I know you keyboardists are always on the look out - because when somebody asks a question, you're there to answer. And the answers are all very good and diverse. You all probably have all the answers and so do not need to ask any questions.

But there are others who want to learn more/ know more who don't necessary post threads (maybe because they may not know what to post or ask). But they are there to read and learn. I've received pms all the time from various people with VERY GOOD QUESTIONS, which should really be on the threads. Just received one pm asking for referral to other sites which can provide more info on keyboards. But I really think we can't get a more diverse keyboardist group than SOFT - seeing we have people specialising in various techniques (from classical to jazz to pop to rock etc), the use of various gears (from analog to workstations to stage pianos to arranger keyboards), hardware and software, etc etc.

So let's try to revive this section a little. Can we list the topics which you think people may be interested in (you probably already have the answers, but try to think of people who may want answers but don't know the questions)? Pf, I know you got lots of good questions (hint hint). We don't have to put answers in this thread - just generate a list of FAQs.

 

[RoRK]

Apologies for being blunt but I think you guys sffer from "too much talking" and not enough doing.

The guitarists and vocalists at Soft contribute a lot to their respective threads and even in the Open Mic section. You keyboadists do almost nothing outside of your threads.

IMO, you guys like to talk about your certs, diplomas and exams rather than playing.

Maybe if you talked less and played more for others to hear ... .

Cheers
RoRK

 

[pf]

Noobie FAQs

Haha...you mean my troublesome nitty gritty queries. lol...

So, here are my FAQs:

Need to Know
-how does a keyboardist blend/play in a band?
-how does a keyboardist use various patches (eg: strings, brass, mallets, organ, etc) to play in a band?
-how does a christian keyboardist play in church with a band?
-how does a christian keyboardist minister effectively to the congregation without drawing attention to oneself?
-how can I sense the dynamics in church worship?
-what do I do if I determined the dynamics in worship?
-how can the keyboardist play a part in 'directing' the dynamics with the other instruments in a band?
-how do I learn to listen to the other instruments in a band?
-how do I coordinate with other instruments then?
-how do I know when to play less and when to play more?
-how do I know when I over-pedal as I play?
-how come I need to pedal differently when I use different patches in the keyboard? (Some patches are just so muddy when I pedal!!! Even different e-piano patches sustain differently! This is so frustrating.)
-To me, there are 2 types of fill-in. 1) Normal fill in 2-note, 3-notes or 4-notes fills just to close gaps/spaces 2) a musical phrase fill. When do I use which?
- how do I come up with interesting chord voicings?
-how come I sound like a bull in a china shop when I play with unweighted keys?

Nice to Know
-what are 'waterfall' keys?
-what is 'aftertouch' in the keys?
-how to do sequencing? (Cheez already helped me with that! Thanx!)
-Will I kill myself if I try to sequence Sarah Brightman's Symphony? (I think that's a yes, so don't bother to answer. hehe..)
-What's involved in mixing? (piano_ex has kindly answered me that already! Thanx!)
-What's a mixer? Is there any difference between an audio mixer and a cake mixer? I have 2 cake mixers in the house that can make an awful lot of noise...where do I plug in at my keyboard?
-What's cakewalk? Can I do any cake mixing with it? :mrgreen:
-What's a loop? Can I wear it as an earring?
-What's a midi controller? How does it control my keyboard? How come my keyboard needs a midi controller to control itself?
-What do I do with the USB port in my keyboard besides practicing and charging my phone/mp3 player at the same time?


That's it for the moment...let me daydream a bit more before I come up with more questions...

 

[pf]

Dear RoRK,

if you are observant, you will realise that most of the keyboardists here have attained quite a lot of experience and are successful in their own ways. Quite a number of them teach or are involved in making music professionally as a livelihood. So, probably it is not in their favor to share or they don't have time to share music as a hobbyist in that sense you're talking about. They are probably so busy with music in their life that they don't "talk" as much.

They talk about certs and stuff because they are QUALIFIED to talk about such stuff. And they are there to answer people with questions regarding such stuff. That means they know their stuff already.

And then probably there are people like me, still learning...so nothing much to share yet.

Apologies for being blunt but I think you guys sffer from "too much talking" and not enough doing.

Maybe if you talked less and played more for others to hear ... .

Cheers
RoRK

 

[Cheez]

Rork, good point there. I know Sonicbrat does post a number of his pieces frequently. Tera and I used to post as well. But time becomes a factor. Perhaps more guitarists are able to post in OM simply because there are many more guitarists than keyboardists. I also have a general feeling that there's an age gap - there are more younger people in the guitarists section, who perhaps have slightly more time recording their riffs and stuffs. Also, most of us have myspace/soundclick etc sites that features our music with a link .

But I'm referring to instruction giving here. The only way to instruct properly in keyboard on the web is to actually film the playing. Listening helps for those who have a good ear, but may be a challenge for most. Requires quite a bit of effort. But I've been thinking about this for a while. Will try something soon - if I have time after putting my 3 kids to sleep...

Nice questions pf. Some are pretty good. Let's focus on questions that deals with the practicality of things. The question on sequencing had been dealed with in detail in the past. And we don't have to cover questions that can be easily found in wiki. What wiki and other sites will lack are practical issues.

Oh, and Rork, I've not come across many threads talking about certs. There are a few, but it appears to be the minority. Is that the image keyboardists in SOFT gives you? Hope not...

 

[Cheez]

Oh, and one more thing. Most keyboardists, if they were to post music, would post their original music rather than music by others (with a different arrangement). Copyright therefore becomes an issue when putting too much new and original stuff on the web. I've stopped for a while when people are contacting me to get my music for their benefits - adding lyrics so they can have a cut in production etc. Some even went to actually completing the entire lyrics before contacting me to use my music.

 

[pf]

Keyboardists of SOFT seems to be a misunderstood lot. Haha...

I'm more into the practical aspects as well, Cheez. The others that can be wiki are nice to know only. =)

 

[noinimod]

Is it ok if i post it here?

How do YOU progress in your keyboard skills?
Maybe it's just me, but i've been looking on the net for eternity for resources and there's really nothing much out there. Makes me wonder how Rick Wakeman, Jordan Rudess and the other keyboard dudes get to their level. I hear practice and practice all the time, but there's no 'how'.

In a way, i'm 'jealous' of guitarists. The material is much easier to be found and it helps that there are more guitarists than keyboardists in industry. Thus, more motivation to learn new things AKA learning that awesome solo off the *insert fave album*.
People may say motivation comes from within, but i guess that's not how i'm wired. I get motivated when i get in contact with beautiful music and the desire comes automatically - to learn that particular piece.
Just random ranting.. bah.
That being said, I am VERY curious how you pros get to the level you are now.

 

[Cheez]

Noinimod, we're all progressing (hopefully...) and it never ends (hopefully...). As for the "how", I'm hoping we can somehow cater to that here in SOFT. Perhaps once we have a list of "how do we do that", we'll need volunteers from SOFT (all the gurus) to start contributing. And video clips is probably the best way to do it. The other way is midi - recording in midi can be easily shared so others can see hear (and "see") how it's being done. So calling people like iansoh, piano_ex, keyboardman, silverbeast, lowjk, sonicbrat, bongman, pf, doubleblade, winterain, teralasch, etc.

Pf, agree. You ask some of the most interesting questions.

 

[pf]

Interesting? You all never thought about the questions I ask when you're noobs meh??? :mrgreen:

More questions added to my ever growing list.

 

[digihub00]

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[noinimod]

Dude, i'm not talking about score playing. You telling me Rudess/Wakeman's playing from scores? I understand they were classically trained, yet i'm sure many classical pianists cannot tell what Rudess/Wakeman is playing. They don't know HOW Rudess/Wakeman's coming up with all the sick notes.

What i do know is my friend's who's a diploma holder knows nothing about dorian, mixolydian etc. I was looking for constructive information, but looks like your tone is anything but that.

And again, it's the same old case of telling someone to do something but not the how. I have been with a few teachers already, but i don't find myself progressing under their guidance. I gotta say first that i'm not lazy, i practice the stuff too eh.
If you know a good keyboard teacher, a good intro would be appreciated.

 

[digihub00]

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[Cheez]

Aiyoh. What's all this about? Let's cool it a little.

Digihub00 has a point in the importance of self-learning. The problem is that different people has different learning styles. And people are at different levels. Also, the wealth of materials available can be rather confusing, and not everyone is catered towards friendly learning. Many are too theoretical.

Not that we can do that in SOFT. But we can try. Problem with scores is that they are dead in themselves. We still need a live person playing and guiding. 2 people can play the exact same score totally differently. That's why I think there may be benefit in midi files that record our actual playing. And video may be a possible option. In a way, it's also a method of self-learning. Self-learning materials out there are also posted by people. We can tap on the strength of the diversity of experience here and come up with helpful stuffs - to help people "self-learn".

And I'm sure digihub00, you've got tricks and tips people don't have. So...let's try to see if this works.

 

[noinimod]

digihub00: Your comparison of how to sleep and how to play an instrument makes no sense at all. It's hardly funny.
You're not explaining yourself again.
So you're saying all the great keyboardists learnt from scores and they automatically get elevated to keyboard god status? lol, funny

 

[digihub00]

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[Cheez]

I believe digihub00 is saying (although not that succinctly) that classical training helps in the long-term, not necessary score reading in itself (although classical training will involve score reading). Reason is clear - classical training does provide the techniques which enables one to progress further. With proper finger techniques, there will be more classical trained pianist who will progress. There will also be many classical pianist who get stuck. But there will be more non-classical trained getting stuck than classically trained.

But one without classical training is not all lost. They can still pick up the techniques and learn them. But perhaps most people who aren't trained classicaly gets intimidated by it. The short cut is not to learn everything but the essentials - scales, for one, are pretty important. I have friends who are not classically trained who play extremely well - and yes, they do play scales very well too!

digihub, your points are very valid. But please, be nicer leh...

Let's come back to the topic, shall we.

 

[digihub00]

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[noinimod]

Aiya.. It's ok. I am classically trained and i did not say that formal training's a bad thing. After talking so much, still nothing useful..
I can almost predict what you're gonna say already. 'Get a teacher'
Might as well just say that in every thread asking for help right? Sigh

 

[RoRK]

Beautiful example of deliberately taking something out of context and making a mountain out of nothing.

I NEVER SAID CERTS WERE BAD.

I said more playing (examples) should be provided. I never said anything negative about certs. STOP BEING CHEAP by taking cheapshots!

And I do play the keyboards!

Cheers
RoRK