blueprintstudios
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yeah that, music schs, hotels.. etc gd luck hehe
Recording studios in Singapore
- Thread starter Robin
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logicdroid
New member
Where's Robin?
Dear Robin,
What's your take on quality? And how are we in SG going to shift towards your quality? Good or bad, there's always room for improvement...
Dear Robin,
What's your take on quality? And how are we in SG going to shift towards your quality? Good or bad, there's always room for improvement...
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bernardgoh
New member
for any jobs including sound recording. it's always a team effort thingy. weakest link is the problems of all failed product.
A good album = Good Songs, Good Musicians, Good Producers, right gears to record your stuff, good mixing engineer, good master, good designer to design your album, good .......
alot of things to consider. and in Singapore, it seem that the trends that the weakest link always linked to Sound Engineering..... I'm not too sure why is it so. anybody have any comment on this?
I'm just trying to create a talking point for everyone.
and hope we can learn somethings out of this forums.
A good album = Good Songs, Good Musicians, Good Producers, right gears to record your stuff, good mixing engineer, good master, good designer to design your album, good .......
alot of things to consider. and in Singapore, it seem that the trends that the weakest link always linked to Sound Engineering..... I'm not too sure why is it so. anybody have any comment on this?
I'm just trying to create a talking point for everyone.
and hope we can learn somethings out of this forums. Hmm, even some work out of humble home studios can sound commercial-quality! So that might not be a very fair statement. Depending on genre, it can be not so much about "real" or "n00b" gear, but experience and talent. However, if you're recording live, acoustic instruments, then the quality of the acoustic space, the signal chain, etc would probably matter a lot more.
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parablue74
New member
Quote from BernardGoh:
alot of things to consider. and in Singapore, it seem that the trends that the weakest link always linked to Sound Engineering..... I'm not too sure why is it so. anybody have any comment on this?
I don't think the weakest link is Sound Engineering at all, I think the weakest link is $$.
In every music project i see coming out from acts/bands and even in latest multimedia films like "Sing to the Dawn" etc, it's always a lower budget as compared with overseas or US/UK projects. Take majority of local albums released, put them and compare in every way with overseas acts. In most proportion, you will find a lagging factor in terms of almost everything, from album cover design, number of pages in the album sleeves, sound engineering, even time spend getting the music right.
Then you look at the credits behind locals albums as compared with overseas albums, you will probably find a number of maybe 5-6 people behind local albums, mostly pretty DIY stuff. But when you look at overseas albums (most anyway!), you'll find a big team of people, maybe 10-15 or even more.
I'm not saying we can't beat the overseas standard, i'm saying we can, if we put in our time and $$. Every blame is always on studios, when in actuality, it's the $$ put in. If you expect to only pay $500 for an album, don't expect the sound engineer to works for months solely on your album to achieve that US Top 40s standard. He'll be eating grass and stone to survive. A minimum budget for sound overseas has always been $25,000 at least for an album. It's not the gear that weighs in the most, i've read about UK studios that can be off such low budget, yet achieve impressive results. Most of getting a good sound is the time spent, just like getting good music.
alot of things to consider. and in Singapore, it seem that the trends that the weakest link always linked to Sound Engineering..... I'm not too sure why is it so. anybody have any comment on this?
I don't think the weakest link is Sound Engineering at all, I think the weakest link is $$.
In every music project i see coming out from acts/bands and even in latest multimedia films like "Sing to the Dawn" etc, it's always a lower budget as compared with overseas or US/UK projects. Take majority of local albums released, put them and compare in every way with overseas acts. In most proportion, you will find a lagging factor in terms of almost everything, from album cover design, number of pages in the album sleeves, sound engineering, even time spend getting the music right.
Then you look at the credits behind locals albums as compared with overseas albums, you will probably find a number of maybe 5-6 people behind local albums, mostly pretty DIY stuff. But when you look at overseas albums (most anyway!), you'll find a big team of people, maybe 10-15 or even more.
I'm not saying we can't beat the overseas standard, i'm saying we can, if we put in our time and $$. Every blame is always on studios, when in actuality, it's the $$ put in. If you expect to only pay $500 for an album, don't expect the sound engineer to works for months solely on your album to achieve that US Top 40s standard. He'll be eating grass and stone to survive. A minimum budget for sound overseas has always been $25,000 at least for an album. It's not the gear that weighs in the most, i've read about UK studios that can be off such low budget, yet achieve impressive results. Most of getting a good sound is the time spent, just like getting good music.
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lethalmaus
New member
[=bernardgoh
hmm, honestly, i think the weakest link is not in the engineerings.
it's the good songs, and good musicians (i'm talking about english music scene).
if we are to be objective and 'harsh', meaning we do not give special consideration or symphaty for anything 'local and homegrown', it is actually quite clear where the weakest link is, that's my opinion.
hmm, honestly, i think the weakest link is not in the engineerings.
it's the good songs, and good musicians (i'm talking about english music scene).
if we are to be objective and 'harsh', meaning we do not give special consideration or symphaty for anything 'local and homegrown', it is actually quite clear where the weakest link is, that's my opinion.
blueprintstudios
New member
the weakest link is in the belief.
if you believe the <insert link> here is the fault. it is.
if you believe the <insert link> here is the fault. it is.
Enjaykayb
New member
You guys should check out the studio at Republic Poly... ams Neve Genesys Console, ProTools HD Systems, TC Electronics System 6000, Eventide and Lexicon Outboard, a huge mic collection + ADAM Audio monitoring, etc... Probably more "professional" than some of the "professional" studios out there.
Probably more "professional" than some of the "professional" studios out there.
blueprintstudios
New member
so what makes a "studio" professional? the gear/the user or the "Act" ? sometimes i see the user / gear barely professional but the guy really "acts professional" well till it's believable.
l0u5y
New member
The meaning of professional is vague. But the general acceptance is that as long as someone does some kind of work that earns him income which he lives on, that is professional. However, if u are talking about professional as being of a certain standard, i would think that a studio requires good room acoustics, big mic preamps and outboard gears collection, good monitors, good skills, good ad/da convertors with good clock etc. Every single part of the chain is important.
Mics need to have a good collections and of suitable quantity. Essential mics are, U87, md421, sm7, sm57, sm58, re-20, good ribbon mics, sdcs and other great mics. quantity meaning enough microphones for like stereo micing, drum micing.
Preamps, high end ones, at least some neve clones.
Good monitors. at least a pair in the range of 3k. and an ns10 for reference is usually wat defines a studio being professional. I've seen studios in singapore using juz a pair of rp8s or rp5s and call themselves professional, charging ppl at like 60-80 bucks per hour. These studios should be ashamed of themselves. hint: the studio who gives discount vouchers for recording.
Singapore needs some form of rate control over these studios. Badly equipped studios should not be charging at 60/hr. 15-20/ hrs is reasonable when jamming studios also spend same amount of money on gears except its for jamming and jamming studios have to spend extra on maintenence as well whereas a so-called recording studio does not face a problem where they have to change their drum skin every few days and buy new drumsticks every day.
Mics need to have a good collections and of suitable quantity. Essential mics are, U87, md421, sm7, sm57, sm58, re-20, good ribbon mics, sdcs and other great mics. quantity meaning enough microphones for like stereo micing, drum micing.
Preamps, high end ones, at least some neve clones.
Good monitors. at least a pair in the range of 3k. and an ns10 for reference is usually wat defines a studio being professional. I've seen studios in singapore using juz a pair of rp8s or rp5s and call themselves professional, charging ppl at like 60-80 bucks per hour. These studios should be ashamed of themselves. hint: the studio who gives discount vouchers for recording.
Singapore needs some form of rate control over these studios. Badly equipped studios should not be charging at 60/hr. 15-20/ hrs is reasonable when jamming studios also spend same amount of money on gears except its for jamming and jamming studios have to spend extra on maintenence as well whereas a so-called recording studio does not face a problem where they have to change their drum skin every few days and buy new drumsticks every day.
blueprintstudios
New member
well it's hard to agree nor disagree with what you said, but then again I've heard works from fully equipped studios using professional gear but more of a case of 'gear better than user'. the engineer just don't cut the mix.
i disagree with studios should be 'ashamed' of discount vouchers. As a "service" we give what the client wants/loves in terms of sound and comfortability and keep them coming back as regulars as i always say "typical singaporeans love CGAEFD" cheap,good,alot,extra,free,discount.rates offered in singapore are specially catered to the way things work with the financial situations of the clients here, as well as the rising rental rates of places.
end of the day irregardless of rates it's the client's call and perspective i guess
i disagree with studios should be 'ashamed' of discount vouchers. As a "service" we give what the client wants/loves in terms of sound and comfortability and keep them coming back as regulars as i always say "typical singaporeans love CGAEFD" cheap,good,alot,extra,free,discount.rates offered in singapore are specially catered to the way things work with the financial situations of the clients here, as well as the rising rental rates of places.
end of the day irregardless of rates it's the client's call and perspective i guess
sweetpropaganda
New member
Hi Dixon,
Can you tell me where is Lion's Studio located at? And how much do they charge for M-Track recording session?
Thank you!
Jerseystar
New member
You guys should check out the studio at Republic Poly... ams Neve Genesys Console, ProTools HD Systems, TC Electronics System 6000, Eventide and Lexicon Outboard, a huge mic collection + ADAM Audio monitoring, etc...
I think this is probably the weakest link, that gear rules. It doesn't. I mean it might appear 'great' but at the end of the day, pushing this line doesn't change the fact that the music coming out from the scene is still shite.
and Enjaykayb I didn't mean this as a personal attack. Just pointing out that great records have been recorded in garages as of late (say the past ten years) or in someone's house so clearly gear isn't so much of a factor. Whosoever sells this line probably works for Pro Tools and is more of a salesman than an engineer.
Anyway some of you know my stand pertaining to production in Singapore. I would never pay more than SGD$35 per hour to record because for that money I can get my favourite studios in KL or Jakarta which kick ass. Even then for 35 bux I expect A LOT not just in terms of fidelity but spaciousness, acoustics, professionalism of the engineers and (I'm very particular on this... ) studio etiquette. I've cut enough tracks to know that you can't bullshit me so just know your role and do your job and do it quick.
blueprintstudios
New member
jerseystar : what about petrol and lodging over at malaysia? you got samples of the $35 per hr recording studio? i would like to hear it and compare with our local standards.
Jerseystar
New member
Blueprintstudios, I understand this might be a bit uncomfortable for a local studio owner to hear and if that's the vibe you're getting let me apologize.
But to address some of your queries and for the info of the general public, I suppose the cheapest way to go about this is for a band who's serious to block book a package if they can get all their members to take leave for a period of time say 10 days to two weeks, and block book a studio or accept an album package for a term like the above. (If the band can't then probably the band is not that serious no?)
Anyway, to save on transport take a coach to KL as a band with your guitars and FX only (everything else you can find in house) A Coach to Kl yuo can get SGD$25-30 but if you really want to save $$$ take from JB to KL and you'll pay RM25 which is like 10 bux sing. An alternative would be to take the train get a bed for SGD40 per person or again buy from JB RM40 ringgit. A trick I usually do is go to JB and spend RM5 for a ticket to Singapore and then while I'm at the JB station buy a return tix to KL at RM40 so I don't have to come up to JB with all my gear when I'm going up to KL. A third option I think is Air Asia which is like 50 sing? Well whatever you choose, just double this i.e. for the fare back.
When in KL avoid the 5 star hotels and go for cheap accommodation. There are bed and breakfasts that range from RM35 to as low as RM10 per person. But if you want to stay about 10 days to a week, check out service apartments these can go as low as RM300 a month and since you're going as a band, you split this RM300.
And since you'd want to keep shopping and expenditure to a minimum since you're there to work (i.e. do your recordings) and not for holiday, you don't really need that much money but I'm sure you'd bring some pocket money for this. (Hint best places to shop at dirt cheap prices are the KL pasar malams like at Masjid India and Chinatown pasar malams but that' off topic)
Okay down to the actual studios, for SGD35 per hour, this translates to about RM85 per hour studio time. For that type of money in KL you can get premium studios and legendary engineers in Malaysian music, guys like maybe Peter Chong, Greg Henderson, Roslan Aziz, Nick Lee, these are some of the guys who've tracked Malaysian artistes like Jacqueline Victor, Siti Nurhaliza, Search, Zainal Abidin, Pop Shuvit, etc unless you think Malaysian music is beneath our music. Just check out their albums for samples if you must. In fact for that amount of money you might even get time at some audio production houses like 2AM, WASP and FUSEAsia, these primarily do ads and I've seen some of them here like MAS airlines, visit malaysia year campaign etc, some Toyota ads also I think. I suppose if you need additional arrangements to your music these studios could really help.
As for music only studios, off the top of my head, you have Sonic or Sonique Productions by Nick Lee, he did a few indie bands like Tempered Mental (yeah check this band out for samples and sheer music quality), another top quality studio is RMP studios (I used to work here), the boss was the keyboard player for Tony Braxton in the 90's, a Dutch guy, this studio is more for audiophile music like jazz, i.e having tailored acoustic wooden interiors, sound chambers etc. We did the Hari raya song by Metadome Records artistes, this is played on radio in Singapore so if you got the malay channel you might hear it there. Other M'sian bands on Singapore's Malay radio channels include 6ixth Sense, Nitrous, etc. Oh yeah, for that kind of money you might even get M. Nasir's studio and he's Singaporean I think, I forget the name of his studio though. Who knows if you're a malay band and he drops in on your session likes your music...
Cost wise, a full length album there can cost you about RM7000 which is about SGD$2900. And you get it at a real pro studio like those I mentioned above with top engineers, gears. The point I'm making is that the strength of our currency is a real benefit to the musician if they really really knew it. It is however, a bane to the audio engineering industry here so for that amount of money, its like doing an album for half price as compared to the SGD600 per song i.e. SGD6k per album general rate you get here.
As for samples wise, I've given you a rather extensive list you can look for at the local HMV. I doubt these studios actually put up samples cos they go on reputation and don't really need to publicize (which usually means business is good) Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if those studios have a website. Also I doubt providing a sample on the net actually helps (at least for engineers) because mp3 isn't a good way to discern quality, flash audio is worse.
Edit: here's an example of the Metadome All Stars Song above. but its in Youtube so I'm not sure if its adequet to discern. Not really a good example because this is after compression
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca9HLAIHjLs
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Jerseystar
New member
Oh I forgot to add there's also Akakarya Studios but this is in Petaling Jaya, this is Sheila Majid's studio I think. Also about RM85/hour or SGD$35 thereabouts.
I should add also that there are also some bad studios in KL and I'm sure everywhere, so do your homework before you part with your cash. Those I mentioned above are pretty much the good ones.
I should add also that there are also some bad studios in KL and I'm sure everywhere, so do your homework before you part with your cash. Those I mentioned above are pretty much the good ones.
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Joel C
New member
Assigning Blame
You guys should read this thread on GS forums, entitled ' Ego Preservation - Assigning Blame '
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/169195-ego-preservation-assigning-blame.html
The very utmost priority in this business is protecting and preserving your ego. Without it, you will not be able to make music effectively, as reality comes crashing in around you. So wherever you are in the process of making music, be sure to always have someone else to blame for any mediocrity that you may find yourself unable to avoid.
To wit, here are things you can say in a pinch that are almost always inarguable:
* The fans buying this song are losers. If losers buy your music it becomes loser music and no one wants to be associated with it. If the cool people buy your song you will be an international sensation.
* The promotion of the song was a complete failure. With enough promotion anyone will buy anything. The greatest album in the world will be overlooked without great promotion.
* The song needs to be remastered. We can't promote this material because it isn't as loud as what people are used to. They put it on and think it sounds like crap. A louder master will win them over.
* The song needs to be mixed better. If the mix is this bad, all a mastering engineer can do is apply bandaids. A good mix can be mastered in seconds.
* I think you oughtta go back to tracking. If your tracks are good, the mix will be easy. No mixing can fix bad tracks.
* This song failed due to a poor arrangement. If your arrangement is good, the tracks will just come right out of the musicians. No tracking techinque can fix a bad arrangement.
* The song nees to be rewritten. If your song is good, the arrangement will come naturally. No arrangement can fix a bad song.
* I think you oughtta pick a better artist. If you've got a compelling artist, they'll bring home any song for you no matter what you do with it. No song is good enough to survive an uninteresting artist.
This is by far the most important, and most used tip in this entire directory, regardless of what anyone else says.
You guys should read this thread on GS forums, entitled ' Ego Preservation - Assigning Blame '
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/169195-ego-preservation-assigning-blame.html
The very utmost priority in this business is protecting and preserving your ego. Without it, you will not be able to make music effectively, as reality comes crashing in around you. So wherever you are in the process of making music, be sure to always have someone else to blame for any mediocrity that you may find yourself unable to avoid.
To wit, here are things you can say in a pinch that are almost always inarguable:
* The fans buying this song are losers. If losers buy your music it becomes loser music and no one wants to be associated with it. If the cool people buy your song you will be an international sensation.
* The promotion of the song was a complete failure. With enough promotion anyone will buy anything. The greatest album in the world will be overlooked without great promotion.
* The song needs to be remastered. We can't promote this material because it isn't as loud as what people are used to. They put it on and think it sounds like crap. A louder master will win them over.
* The song needs to be mixed better. If the mix is this bad, all a mastering engineer can do is apply bandaids. A good mix can be mastered in seconds.
* I think you oughtta go back to tracking. If your tracks are good, the mix will be easy. No mixing can fix bad tracks.
* This song failed due to a poor arrangement. If your arrangement is good, the tracks will just come right out of the musicians. No tracking techinque can fix a bad arrangement.
* The song nees to be rewritten. If your song is good, the arrangement will come naturally. No arrangement can fix a bad song.
* I think you oughtta pick a better artist. If you've got a compelling artist, they'll bring home any song for you no matter what you do with it. No song is good enough to survive an uninteresting artist.
This is by far the most important, and most used tip in this entire directory, regardless of what anyone else says.
Jerseystar
New member
You guys should read this thread on GS forums, entitled ' Ego Preservation - Assigning Blame '
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/169195-ego-preservation-assigning-blame.html
The very utmost priority in this business is protecting and preserving your ego. Without it, you will not be able to make music effectively, as reality comes crashing in around you. So wherever you are in the process of making music, be sure to always have someone else to blame for any mediocrity that you may find yourself unable to avoid.
regardless of what anyone else says.
Hey Joel C.
That's pretty true. I actually think of all the studios abound, Joel C's is probably one of the better ones if not the best and that he knows what he's doing. *Ahem Mytek converters... ADAM's S2.5A's.
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