Raw Demo:Imperfect Sample and Kirk Hunter TVEC I

[kongwee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z9Ht1dLkEM

Do a bit of demo out of it.
Using EXS 24 version of Imperfect Sample Baby white grand and Kirk Hunter Concert String I.

No effect are used. All straight from the sampler.
The piano have three mic perfective track 8 layer(Board,String and ambience).
The string have 5 track in TVEC lite mode(only make the release longer to mimic reverb).

All these eight track consume 1.9 gig even in disk stream mode.
High dropout rate too.
I'm using iMac8,1(2.4mhz) with 4 gig.
In the highest sample mode, I think it will consume 3.8-4.0 gig of ram.
These two package take up 60 gigs of your precious HDD space.
I hope I serve a good info who new into this.

 

[PatheinRaindropMoe]

Lovely piano!

 

[Cheez]

Kongwee, are you using a separate HD to stream your samples? If yes, I suspect that the problem with the dropouts may be due to the inefficiency of EXS. Kontakt is known to be more efficient.

I just played live with my notebook a few days ago in 2 sessions. My notebook has a slightly higher specs than your iMac - 2.8GHz with 6GB RAM. I've loaded KH Strings Combi TVEC 1 layered with NI's Akoustik Piano (Steinway) into Kontakt. Also loaded (and muted when not playing them, but loaded into the RAM nevertheless) are a Hammond and a DX7 e-piano sound. Also layered with some percussion mapped to my highest 2 notes - London Percussion (Cymbals) and Wizoo wind chimes. I'm hitting close to 300 notes polyphony (when playing TVEC full strings layered with piano and percussion - using glissandos etc) with no dropouts or any problems. I used only Kontakt - not Kore (which will be a nice thing to have). So I had to do quite a bit of programming and remapping to create the multi.

Like the piano sound you have. How's it in higher velocities (ie ff and fff)? The soft playing seems pretty refined.

Fun seeing the band hear me manipulating different sounds including percussion - they just wondered where all those sounds came from! Haha! Didn't mean to steal the spotlight from the drummer...

 

[kongwee]

I don't think is EXS fault. All sample are in my one and only internal HD.I remember I'm seeing 1.1 gig memory just loading 3 track of piano(8 layer each). Adding five string(lite) I'm seeing 1.9 gig used. Logic Pro 8 eat up 800-900MB memory alone, leaving not much space left. Anytime Logic will quit immediately. I got about 60 plus polyphonic at max. My iMac is only 2.4 C2D,800mhz with 4gig. 2 year old liao. A spec of 13"inch MBP can trash me liao.

Anyway EXS does not have load/unload sample function like in more advance sampler. I think that the reason it eat up more ram.

Back to the piano, yes it is soft and dark in natural. Even in 127 vel, these is no much hitting than those popular one. The detune is not much too.You can't use it more classical pieces which required higher dynamic. Even logic own steinway piano patch have better dynamic! It is just that the sound is so.... I don't what to say. Really nice to play. It does remind me of playing a baby grand. If I got the mood, I will try loading all three 17 layer track for piano solo only(1.9 gig ram eaten).

 

[Cheez]

Oh I see. The HD is definitely the limitation then. Get an external HD (if the iMac cannot take an internal HD) and your problems should go away. You should be getting much higher polyphony - at least 3-4 times you are having now.

 

[kongwee]

My can only take firewire 800, can improve the performance or not? I don't mind to buy one if it work well. Also, dunno EXS can stream from external HD or not.

 

[Cheez]

If that's your main machine for DAW, then it's worthwhile getting a firewire HD. If you have another more powerful machine and the iMac is a secondary machine, then no point. The HD should improve performance. For sample streaming, the bottle-neck is the HD's seek time. Firewire 800 is an overkill, but no choice if that's the only port you have. I'm using a USB 2 HD for my notebook - and I'm getting about 300 notes polyphony. I haven't maxed out yet so I don't know the ceiling before I start getting dropouts.

EXS should be able to stream from external drives. As long as it recognises where the sample are stored, you should have no problems.

If you don't want to spend money in case the problem is with other specs, perhaps you can try to borrow a HD and try. But you shouldn't be getting any problems with a 2.4GHz and 4GB RAM. What's your audio interface?

 

[kongwee]

I try this now on USB 2.0 HD, I am thinking to get a external HDD for coming IT fair.

 

[Cheez]

Sorry, need to clarify. Are you using 2 HDs - one for systems and one for samples? Or are you using everything in one internal HD? I'm not entirely clear.

If you are using only one HD for everything, you need a 2nd HD. If you are already using 2 HDs, then no point getting an external HD.

 

[kongwee]

All my app and projects are in main HD. Got two external USB2 HD. One for backup. Other for media storage. I will transfer the piano and string to the storage to see the effect. I'm considering getting FireWire HD to replace the storage one.

 

[Cheez]

I'm pretty sure when you stream from the USB HD, you'll feel the difference. The bottle-neck is not in the speed of data transfer - USB 2 is enough. You don't really need firewire. The bottleneck is how fast the HD reads the data - hence the faster the HD, the more samples you can stream - technically speaking.

 

[kongwee]

I think the problem is not HD transfer. It is just my iMac is not strong enough. I got one project KH with logic sample. One project KH,single 17 layer IP piano and logic sample. Guess what, those with IP piano give me dropout including this demo. My HD transfer rate for all these project do not hit more than 8MB/s whether internal or external.

 

[Cheez]

As I said, the bottleneck is NOT in the transfer. The bottleneck for sample streaming is in the seek time of the HD (ie the speed of the HD). If you are using only one HD, the OS will be spinning the HD, your Logic will also be spinning the HD, which taxes it a lot making sample streaming from that same HD slower.

Transfer speed has never been the problem. That's why a USB 2 is more than enough and you don't need firewire.

 

[kongwee]

Dunno, I try both on internal HD and USB HD that drop out rate is the same,internal only a bit better. Anyway, at the moment no time to time, need to finish to two arrangement.

 

[Cheez]

Hmmm, if it's not the HD, then it's the audio interface. Or it's just EXS not able to handle it. I've used slower CPU without problems. It all depends on how your software handles all that.

Want to try a PC instead of a Mac? (sorry, I just have to rub that in!!!)

 

[kongwee]

Free usage I dun mind yah....
I can't pinpoint the problem, unless I got Kontact 4.0 than I can use the demo to make the conclusion.
My machine old lah, I use an base model iMac 9,1(2009) process much faster than my iMac 8,1(2008).
It is about 20% faster with a little increase in processer speed and bus speed. And $200 cheaper also. Don't really compare in DAW,but do a lot in video processing work.

 

[kongwee]

I just played live with my notebook a few days ago in 2 sessions. My notebook has a slightly higher specs than your iMac - 2.8GHz with 6GB RAM. I've loaded KH Strings Combi TVEC 1 layered with NI's Akoustik Piano (Steinway) into Kontakt. Also loaded (and muted when not playing them, but loaded into the RAM nevertheless) are a Hammond and a DX7 e-piano sound. Also layered with some percussion mapped to my highest 2 notes - London Percussion (Cymbals) and Wizoo wind chimes. I'm hitting close to 300 notes polyphony (when playing TVEC full strings layered with piano and percussion - using glissandos etc) with no dropouts or any problems. I used only Kontakt - not Kore (which will be a nice thing to have). So I had to do quite a bit of programming and remapping to create the multi.

I miss the part Combi TVEC1. Meaning it is a full string layout. I think it doesn't take too much of RAM. Normally, I will load all 5 section out. Even playing just chords(like this demo), I will still load 5 section up, in case I need to play different articulation at some point. My guess of drop out is that all 5 track of string and 3 track of piano are all in 24 bit quality. It is too much to handle for my iMac. Of cos, my Logic 8 is not even load efficient

 

[Cheez]

I use the combi only for live layering. When sequencing, I have at least 6-8 midi tracks for strings alone (sometimes more). You shouldn't use combi for sequencing. However, you still get all the articulations in Combi - just apply them all at once instead of separate string sections. Of course, when I use separate string sections in a full orchestra template (ie more about 20-30 midi tracks), I'm using my Quad Core with 8GB RAM with samples being streamed from 2 separate HDs so I split the strain of streaming across 2 drives (OS sits on another separate HD) - so cannot compare the power.

So you may be right. Loading up 5 TVECs may eat up some resources. But 1.9GB isn't a lot of memory being used up. In fact, it's actually quite little. CPU tax? Maybe...

However in my notebook, I did use a heavy piano sample + other samples all loaded into one (with quite a bit of programming like effects added into my DX7 etc). Why don't you try loading your piano and layering your piano with the Combi and see if you can hit 300 polyphony in your iMac? If you can't, I think it may be EXS. Try downloading the demo version of Kontakt and see if that improves performance. Otherwise, I can't really help you...

 

[kongwee]

It ok lah. I just do a project with a piano and 5 string section is enought. I still room for a band setting arrangement. A bit of loop can liao.