New user looking to start computer based recording -

[yc_]

(Newbie alert )

I was on the verge of getting a computer interface for recording of music and by luck stumbled on this site. Hope to be able to get some advice first. I have some knowledge of software/Midi sequencing and computers (I also have a Yamaha DX7 connected by midi cable to a soundblaster - this shows how 'ancient' i am )

Equipment wise, I have access to a variety of 'budget' microphones, cables, stands etc so all i need to start is the interface.

First, based on the internet searches, I was almost going to put money down on an E-mu 1820M from the US (one online shop has free shipping) for US$499. 2 mic pre-amps are good enough for starters for me for starters

Though I considered ESI Wamirack, there is a lack of information about the product (cannot download manual from internet) and lack of dealer in Singapore? So I don't know whether its any better than the Aardvark Direct Pro 2496 (S$9xx) (which has a big problem - it records max 4 channels at a time only - so if SPDIF input is used, 2 of the mic inputs are disabled)

But then I came to this site and see that Firewire 1814 is being sold at Sinamex for S$995... which is basically what i would pay for the EMU-1820m on the internet. This seems like the best deal?

So to conclude (thanks for reading this far)

(1) Any thoughts on which computer interface to get? [Singapore perspective most welcome]
(2) I have access to cheap mics. Eg: AKG C1000s, Behringer B-1, Shure Beta. If I want to get a reasonably priced tube-microphone in Singapore for lead vocals, any recommendations? (is Rode NTK sold in SG?)

Thanks!!!

 

[veganbleu]

Sorry no new info here, but if you do manage to get the e-mu, tell us all about it. A review i read has been favourable, but i'd rather have first hand experience. e-mu is a creative subsidiary though same as the soundblasters.

 

[yc_]

Hi veganbleu,

I'm tending more towards the M-Audio since its available in singapore whereas E-mu i have to mail order from the US. I e-mailed e-mu for a list of singapore retailers, they gave me some names, sinamex, team 180 etc.. i called them but they said they don't carry e-mu any more.

what computer interface are you using now by the way?

 

[veganbleu]

Heheh i'm on an audigy 2 platinum ex and kx drivers. Support singapore products!! Latency goes down to 5.33 for stable and 2.33 for moderately unstable. It was either this or the terratec dmx 6fire. But i needed a breakout box.

 

[sound_designer]

Regarding ESI stuff there is a dealer in Malaysia who can deliver to Singapore. I have placed an order for ESI stuff and he seems to be Ok..

His name is Dennis goes by Soft forum Member name "DEN"

Just PM him or check out their website www.build.com.my

ESI seems to be a better choice by price and quality compared to M-Audio..

Cheers !!

 

[Boky]

I will be surprise if US on-line shop willing to do free shipment for you, straight away from US to Singapore with no cost?? If yes, let us know which shop is it, i will buy dozen from them.

I owe a M-audio firewire 410. Bought from US also. I am quite satisfy with the hardware. Metal case, solid button, the preamp is fair, sound quality is clean enough with my Behringer B1. I made some records and played it to a studio engineer before, & he also surprise with the good output.

The only thing is the driver. I just downloaded their latest driver yesterday, it solved my shut down problem; but i still can't played CD thru my CD-Rom, where the output is not smooth; i checked with them before, they said is the buffer size matter. But i have set the buffer to the lowest still can't solve the problem.

I faced problem with V-sampler 3 also; that's a slight delay, but i am not sure is it my PC problem or sound card problem. I am running with P4 1.8 Ghz, 512 Kingston RAM, Gigabyte mother board.

i never use EMU before. No input.

 

[veganbleu]

boky, what's the latency like on the firewire 410. It still is on my portable audio solution hit list. Though like your version, i've heard of issues with it. How much was it from the US? And how did you get it? I'm also on the look out for cheaper out of singapore alternatives.

 

[Boky]

According to the manual, it's 0 latency for hardware monitoring & "ultra-low latency" for software monitoring (yes it's really too subjective)

I got it thru e-bay & I can't remember how much i excactly pay for the item, it's should be somewhere around US420 including bank charge.

Then i got my friend hand carried it back to me on his way home, 100% saving on courier charge. :lol:

One thing caution: You have to be extra careful when dealing with e-bay seller. Study their hystory before you decide to purchase.

 

[yc_]

I will be surprise if US on-line shop willing to do free shipment for you, straight away from US to Singapore with no cost?? If yes, let us know which shop is it, i will buy dozen from them.

Hi, the shop for the emu soundcards is www.jrrshop.com. They have a ebay store http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41787&item=3740349269&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW which is covered by the paypal protection program. The owner also frequents one of the online recording forums. What are you planning to do with one dozen Emu 1820m?

Regarding the ESI - there is no information on the number of simultaneous tracks the Wamirack can record. The info is not on the website. As I mentioned, if its like the Aardvark Directpro 2496 where 2 mic inputs are disabled if spdif in is used, then thats a problem. Also, I don't mind the flexibility of ADAT for future expansion, which ESI doesn't have

cheers

 

[Cheez]

yc,

What is your budget? You mentioned almost paying USD499 for the Emu - that's quite a lot for "starter".

One suggestion: do not get Emu. It does not fall into the usual pro-audio list. M-audio is probably your best choice. ESI OK. Make sure you check out Echo - great drivers with very low latencies. Can also get it in S'pore.

2 mic preamps is all you need? You may also want to broaden your option, perhaps getting a cheaper card like Echo Mia or Audiophile 2496 and get a small mixer.

 

[yc_]

Cheez,

Thanks for your advice, will take the points into consideration. 2 mic preamps for starters should be enough. i plan to record 2 tracks at a time... .

I can get access to some basic sound equipment including mixers, cheap mics.

 

[soft]

hi yc

don't mind me asking, "which 2 tracks will you be recording?"

 

[yc_]

dear soft,

sorry if my terminology used is incorrect... i plan to record a group that can sing acapella or with minimal accompaniment. I can record acapella tracks first, then record separately additional solo vocal lines, guitar accompaniment etc. I saw your post regarding the firewire 1814 at S$995 which is a good enough price to make me consider it rather than emu 1820m... do you have any views/recommendations?

 

[heclak]

looking at your case where you only need 2 tracks at a time.You shouldn't go for the E-Mu or the 1814.Its way too much for you.Its no where near for starters too.

You should get the audiophile 2496 and the soundcraft compact 4.You get quality pre's with the soundcraft and the card has quite good convertors.Definately better off that getting the 1814.Unless you need the inputs.
If you want to spent more money.Get a good outboard pre like the the presonus bluetube or a focusrite twintrack pro.Better if you can a afford it.Don't go cheap on your mics.You will regret it.Spend on your mic if you want quality.no point spending so much on a quality signal chain with a cheap behringer mic.

I think the NTK is sold in Singapore.You can check with Trektech Av, they bring in Rode mics.They also have the renowned blue mics. I tried the blue 8 ball and i have to say that i find it slighty smoother than the 414. Not sure about the new 414.Hopefully it sounds better.

 

[soft]

hi yc

what is the production value you are aiming for? hobby or commercial standard?

maybe you can list out the things you need to get and the budget that you have for them. This way, I am sure our fellow forum users all can help you spend your money better. :lol:

 

[yc_]

Dear Soft/Hecklak

Thanks for your advice. Something for me to think about.

I can borrow mics, stands, cables, small mixer, monitor from the people I plan to record. I think the mics are your standard Shure Betas/SM58 etc.

So technically, all I need is a computer interface. Because I will be recording a lot of acapella, a big concern is noise/hiss etc due to cheap pre-amps etc. Though I am a hobbyist/amateur/beginner, my sound quality requirement is – how much do I need to spend to get relatively ‘quiet’ equipment for recording acapella?

Should I also consider getting a LDC and/or a pair of SDC (for X/Y miking configurations?)

Anyway, I have an approx budget of $1k to start (but as above, have access to some mics). What would you suggest? What would happen if the budget is expanded to $2k?

i don't mind spending money on items which will last. My Yamaha DX7 is still going strong even though it cost a lot when i bought it, so averaged across the years, the value is there

 

[heclak]

Hmm...
Since you are recording mainly acapella.It makes things easier.If you do not need it to be portable.A M-audio Audiophile 2496 would do a great job although some are saying that the E-mu 0404 is better.Its your own preferance.Look at the specs and see which one you would prefer.

Acapella would require a discreet and clean preamp so the behringers would best be out of your list.I would consider the M-audio DMP3 or Focusrite Twintrack Pro. I wouldn't recommend using tube pres or mics on a acapella group but if you want to get one, get one that is good and doesn't distort or mush up your sound. There are some safer bets like the
Presonus BlueTube or 2 Studio Projects VTB1.

There's a point i noted that you have a DX7.Does that mean you need to record multiple instruments at the same time?If so, i would say to get a Soundcraft Compact 4 or Compact 10. Depending on how many channels or mic pres you will need.The pres on the soundcraft are good enough already.Quality Stuff.

For your mics, consider getting the Rode NT5 which is a pair of SDC which is more fexible than a NT4. However, the NT4 does have its advantages for having a fixed mount. You can use a LDC for other instruments or as a ambient mic if you have a proper place to record. If you don't, i think a pair of LDCs for stereo micing an acapella group might pick up too much unwanted noise. For a good LDC ambient mic i would say the Blue 8 Ball. The sound is smooth as is good for micing acapella where smooth is good.

I hope this helps you.If you have any more questions,you can always feel free to ask. Good Luck.

 

[soft]

Just found out that they are selling the Emu in Singapore. http://creativex.creative.com/produ...Products.asp?idCategory=237&idSubCategory=239

I think it is best to keep the signal chain as short as possible. Meaning to get the signal from the microphone into the computer with as few things in between as possible. You mentioned you could get a mixer but the mixer might be the one that's going to give you noise. Therefore, I feel it is better to get a solution with a built-in pre-amp.

Recording acapplla can be as challenging as recording a band because the singers are the instrument. Have you thought about how are you going to record them? You can have them all sing together and record a guide track then have each singer record his part individually. This way, you will have more control when mixing down. No need use stereo miking unless the group cannot sing individually. :lol:

 

[heclak]

You are correct to say keep your signal chain as short as possible.However, if you want quality, you signal chain shouldn't be so. In fact, the correct thing to say for recording classical or acapella is to make sure your signal chain is as clean as possible. Avoid tubes and cheap equipment that adds noise and/or colouration.

If you use the pre's on a audio interface. You can rest assured that it will not be the best you can get. There are usually just mediorce pres built on a interface. Soundcraft have been making boards for season pro studios, where they can heard noise that we cannot detect. Do you think soundcraft would ruin their reputation by making a cheap,noisy mixer?

The mixer is an option to consider if you need more ins at a time.Like recording a stereo acapella with DX7 in the background.If you do get a pre with digital outs, the 2496 can handle that and you can stop worrying abt shorter signal chain as digital signal s do no bother about cable runs. As long as it stays in the digital domain, its safe.

 

[yc_]

thanks for the advice. more things for me to consider. At present, am leaning towards getting an all-in-one computer interface with mic preamps. I hope the built in mic pre-amps will be 'good enough' even though they obviously won't be the best and that the benefits of having the mic pre-amps closer in the signal chain to the A/D converters will give some benefits that will compensate for the not as good mic pre-amps.

assuming i have 2 mic pres, will this procedure work:

(1) First - 2 spaced mics or X/Y recording the whole group (say, between 4 to 8 people) in Stereo
(2) Second - record acoustic guitar accompaniment
(3) Third, fourth, fifth etc - record individual solo lines

Then try and mix it all together? (dx7 more of a midi controller for softsynths etc) Any hints or alternatives welcome. I'm new to this