Need some help identifying this roll...

[Mr. Mouse]

There's a roll I would really want to play, it's from a song by Muse, from their new album. The song's called I Belong To You. The roll happens as early as 0:15, but Dom also plays it whenever the song reaches 'that' part of the song.

Is it a buzz roll or really fast double stroke roll? It's really even and it sounds wicked!

Anyway a link to the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFAIBz-5tC0

 

[muzap]

it's a four stroke roll bro, if i'm not wrong.

 

[Drumbassador]

Roll explanation

There are three ways you can get the effect of such a roll done in the song.

1)Buzz roll- in order to get the continuous effect, you need to master the buzz roll. the challenge on top of getting the continuous sound would be starting the roll and ending it at the right time cleanly.

2)double stroke semiquavers- for this you need to master the double stroke. play alternating semiquavers or 16th notes. then you double up the semiquavers with double strokes to get demisemiquavers or 32nd notes.

3)double stroke sextuplets- for this you need to master the double stoke too. play sextuplets in each beat. next, just like the previous method, double stroke the sextuplets.

using these three ways you can get the effect that you hear in the song. experiment and see which one sounds the best. some sound more fuller than others due to the number of notes being played for the same period of time, but at the same time require a greater skill level to pull off. so see what suits your skill level. learning a buzz roll is easy but mastering it is hard due to the fact that you need a even and continuous sound throughout. learning a double stroke roll is hard but it is easy to master once you get the hang of it at least in my opinion

 

[alvinthedrummer]

Misinterpreted reply!!! Sorry folks!

 

[Drumbassador]

Confusion

Sorry for the trouble but i'm wondering if the person who started this thread was referring to the long rolls that is being played during parts of the song or the four stroke roll that alvin noted down on the notation provided. he seems to be questioning about whether it is a buzz roll or double stroke roll so i figured it would be referring to the long rolls with the sudden cut effect in the background during parts of the song

 

[alvinthedrummer]

Oh no....i read it so fast in between my classes and totally misinterpreted his question....please ignore my reply....and yes, I think it is a buzz roll....

 

[Drumbassador]

No worries

Haha no problem on that. your post on the four stroke "ratamacue" style fill which you transcribed would be very useful for many drummers. as far as i know it is the first multi-drum orchestrated roll that many drummers learn and i see Yamaha emphasizing it a lot in its fill exercises. moreover many drummers can play it but don't know how it is notated so this phrase that you have posted would be of great help

 

[Mr. Mouse]

Thanks for the reply guys!

Most of the people on Drummerworld said it is a buzz roll. Actually I think so myself. I can't get my buzz roll sounding that even though, my right hand always hits harder.

 

[Drumbassador]

Buzz Roll

okay the idea firstly is to ensure that you get a multiple number of rebounds as possible with each stroke. In order to do that, you grip has to be loose. you grip the sticks too tightly and you are not going to get enough rebounds with each stroke in order to make it sound even. make sure you are gripping the sticks with more or less the same amount of strength with both hands. next is to play alternating semiquavers or 16th notes with the same amount of strength delivering each stroke together with the multiple bounces. to get it even you need to listen to the strokes carefully and with practice you will get it right. also ensure that the balance points on both the sticks are the same. if you can read and transcribe songs i suggest you transcribe the whole section of the song where the roll is being played and practice it together with the groove which makes your practicing more musical. if your right hand hits harder than your left hand, you have two solutions to the problem. one would be to decrease the strength on your right hand to even out with your left hand or you increase the strength of your strokes on your left hand to match up with your right hand. the idea is to have the same amount of volume between the two hands because even if your strokes are played evenly in terms of the note values and clarity, the difference in volume is going to spoil the evenness of your buzz roll.

 

[StickmanSG]

buzz roll!

a big can of worms to alot of drumset players somehow. buzz rolls are rolls used most often in wind band and orchestral S.D playing. it can be metered or non-metered.

drumset players who cant do it well are just losing a possible sound from their vocab.

by metered i mean broken down to subdivisions just like any other open rolls. i.e. 8th notes, 16th notes, 16th note triplets, etc.

ehh... i mean the hand moves in sub-division... not the buzzes!.. GRRR.. tough trying to explain over the internet.

OK. so anyway..... with regards to how much tension shd be in each hand, this varies actually with tempo of the subdivision. faster = more tight, slow = more loose. this is opposite of the axiom loose when fast. (which is an undebatable truth) its just that now.. we are trying to roll the snare drum not playing inidividual strokes.

i will do a video when i have the time to explain how to go about getting this idea down.

cheers!

 

[Mr. Mouse]

Thanks for the help guys! Anw, my buzz roll is getting really consistent now. Don't think I need any more help about that part...

Hmm so the buzzroll sounds really fast and all... is it considered like a 'cheap' way to do fast rolls by the more experienced players?

 

[Drumbassador]

rolls

There is no such things as a cheap way of doing things. as long as you mean to do it it is fine. doing the buzz roll is not cheap compared to the double stroke roll. it is just that the double stroke roll is more open and has greater application than the buzz roll in my opinion. whatever the roll, it depends on your application. as long as it is nice and even nobody would complain. since you say your buzz roll is getting more consistent now i would advice you to master the double stroke too if you haven't. and when i mean double stroke roll it is with the proper technique and not just making use of the full rebound of the snare for the second stroke. master it till you can even do clean rolls on the floor tom or even a pillow or your thighs for example. trust me when i say the possibilities are endless with double strokes. it is one of the most important building blocks of your drumming. also master the double stroke with your foot. it has brought my drumming to a whole new level mastering the double stroke both with my hand and my feet.

 

[Mr. Mouse]

Yeap, I will try to master doubles! I have problems with consistency also with my doubles, just like my buzzroll, my right hand is louder than my left hand.

It's getting pretty okay now, but each RR LL now has different volumes too. Lol.

 

[Drumbassador]

Double stroke rolls

Okay you might have a problem with the consistency of your double when you start off possibly because you practice procedure might be wrong. here are a few tips on learning your double stroke rolls.

1)Single motion- many of my students make the mistake of playing the double stroke on each hand with double motion of the wrists. no doubt it is called a double stroke roll but the efficiency of it really is lost compared to the single stroke roll if there is a double motion being played with the wrists during the double stroke roll. what you would want to aim for is to have a single motion of the wrist for each double stroke while ensuring the right push-pull technique with the fingers.Just imagine, if you were to play a single stroke roll, but each stroke sounded like two, you'd make a pretty mean roll!

2)Stick height-When you are playing the double stroke roll, ensure that the stick height of the rebounds are the same. this would ensure that your strokes are even.

3)Positioning of the rebounds- a lot of my students make the mistake of playing the second stroke of the double stroke naturally on another location on their playing surface. what i mean is that when they play the rebound, they do not control the sticking and it naturally bounces of to another location on the surface. what you should be concentrating on after you master the push-pull technique is to practice playing your first and second stroke on the same point. this would also make it easier for you to gauge the stick height when you are aiming for sound consistency.

4)Accent the second stroke-when you are practicing the double stroke roll, ensure firstly to start at a slow tempo and build it up to speed gradually. one of the most important points that you have to note is that you need to accent the second stroke of your doubles. if you master this technique, you would have a double stroke roll that has a demi-semiquaver feel at a faster tempo compared to a semiquaver feel. moreover, once you can master this technique, you will not have difficulty accenting the first or the second stroke even at faster tempos.