how do you cut thru, while playing in a band?

[mamemo]

im in a band with 2 guitarists, me being one of em.

i did a search, some ppl stating that increasing your mids help you not be drowned out by the other instruments?
then again we play in D standard, and NEVER scoop our mids, yet when we play, at times, it sounds like a jumbled mess, and neither him or i can cut thru the mix. Toning down the amps doesnt help as the drum will be too loud.

we play metal and stuff, so its mostly heavy-high-gain chuggy-chug kinda tone.

any tips?

 

[Viruz]

Cut through eh :?: :?:
How abt this.

Kidding.

 

[Phil]

Haha, I am about to repeat thing I said in another thread.

Well, the problem is you having the same frequencies as the other fellows. Listen carefully to them playing. Cymbal/snare = competing on treble. Vox/snare/toms/rhythm guitar plays = competing on mids. Bass drum/bass = = competing for bass frequency should your sound disappear.

You need to start adjusting your equaliser, until the swell in your sound moves out of range of the instrument that you are competing with. You may have to lower it quite drastically to achieve this.

If you listene to your guitar on its own, it might sound funny. But when you add in the other instruments in your band, it sounds fine again. This is because the frequency you have just removed from your sound, is being carried by the other instruments. And even when cranking the volume up, you still aren't clashing with the rest of the group, so they don't tend to play louder to compensate.

 

[alaineth]

Bearing in mind that a guitar is mostly a mid freq. instrument with the cymbals are high freq and the bass drum and bass guitar lowfreq, having strong mids will help you 'cut through' the band. Try boosting different frequencies with the EQ and see which ffreq will help you 'cut through' better. You might get feedback though, but i think its unlikey.

 

[Phil]

Haha, yeah. Find 'that' spot for feedback.

 

[mamemo]

thanks for replying

alright so i guess now investing in an EQ pedal would be a good move?

 

[rottenramone]

..

why don't u try the eq on your amp before you buy the eq pedal

 

[Rollercoaster]

There's one simple thing to do: Get a beer for the sound engineer!!!

 

[Rollercoaster]

If it's in a live situation without the engineer, there's two choices....
1) Turn your volume louder and pissed off the rest of the band.
2) Use more mids in your eq settings.

 

[Phil]

But it's still better to learn how to do it yourself right.

 

[ShredCow]

Re: ..

why don't u try the eq on your amp before you buy the eq pedal

This is most correct.

Don't jump on an buy the EQ. I've realised thru the years of playing, that you don't need that much mids. Like what Phil said, your guitar with less mids (not scooped mids) might sound horrid on its own, but in a band context, it will sound totally fine.

Drop the mids on your amp first. Your guitarist friend and yourself... then see what happens.

Please report... It would be good for others trying to get a good band mix.

 

[mamemo]

Re: ..

why don't u try the eq on your amp before you buy the eq pedal

the thing is, we're an actively jamming band, and thus we kinda change from one jam studio to another, so i guess the tweaking of eq on the amp would be out.

Don't jump on an buy the EQ. I've realised thru the years of playing, that you don't need that much mids. Like what Phil said, your guitar with less mids (not scooped mids) might sound horrid on its own, but in a band context, it will sound totally fine.

thanks for the advice.

but shouldnt the mids be higher, as stated by other members? and whats the difference between scooped and lesser mids?

 

[Viruz]

Higher mids is good for yr solo as far as i am concerned.Maybe u can tell us yr setup that will be better for us to understand. :?

 

[ShredCow]

The mids, if too high, you find your chords will be mushy. The notes don't have good seperation. More mids is a nice thing for single note solos lah, but chording? No way.

Scooped mids and lesser mids? Same lah. Scooped usually being much much less mids.

You have to be very clear bout the mids thing. Too much mids, your chords mud out. You try it. With your normal settings, alone. Play some chords, not power chords mind you. Then you adjust the mids till the chords some clear when picked, strumed, palm muted and so on.

If you scoop your mids, that makes for a nice clean tone, very very good note seperation when on gain, chords sound nice and defined... BUT... there will be no power in the tone. Its going to be too thin.

So strike a balance. Take into account your pups too and guitar. A Dimarzio Tonezone has a hell lot of mids, so you can afford to drop your mids some more. A Les Paul has a lot of lower mids , so again, you can afford to scoop. Try scooping a fender strat with single coils.

 

[Kwerty]

Don't forget about gain.

I've seen crazy fellas turning their gain level to max, it is very obvious you cannot be heard or, "covered up" by the other instruments. You have to consider all factors, distortion level, what guitar you use etc.

For instance, stratocasters with single coils are already with high mids, if you push up further you'll be hurting your ears and members ears. For lespaul, lower bass, slightly higher mids and moderate treble? That is what I do normally, to find my preferable tone.

As for EQ pedals, you don't really need it unless you want to cut in a lot during solos etc. Don't waste your money first, try the EQ settings on your amp and try to find a desired tone + able to cut thru, and if you need a volume boost or thicker tone etc, then get the EQ pedal. You never know if you can cut through during songs until you try the whole thing and record it. EQ pedals are sometimes a waste IMO. (But I love mine ^^)

 

[ShredCow]

oh yeah... mids aside...

In a band context, you have to understand your role as a guitarist.

You're not a bass player. So stop putting your bass on 11.
YOur treble should be higher in order to be heard. A little higher mind you. Just a little.

Go to OM, SoulJah's recording. That is a good live tone there. That will cut thru easily. For rhythm, it will be heard too.

Notice, that tone is not exactly smooth? Its not your standard uber fat, smooth and creamy tone, but that tone will cut.

A good example would be to use a DS1. DS1 tone @ 9, it sounds smooth and fat, nice to listen/play but go live, and everything else drowns you out. DS1 tone @ 11, now you start to cut thru, but the tone alone sounds thin and stuff. So you understand how a great live tone might not sound the best alone? Moreover you are playing with another guitarist.

 

[rottenramone]

..

agree. the key is to "cut thru" and not "compete with"

 

[mamemo]

im having a break from jamming coz of my exams and stuff, so i wont be tweaking the amps anytime soon.

anyway, this is my setup

2x EMG 81 in a mahogany body, maple set neck LTD explorer (fixed bridge)
ernie ball .10 tuned to D standard

sansamp gt2, marshall/hi-gain/center setting

ibanez ts7 drive=0 , tone = 8, level = varies (i use it to smoothen the tone
for lead or solos, gt2 as it is, is a lil harsh sounding)

yamaha chorus - rarely use it, only for cleans coz emgs suck at it

so this is how it goes
guitar -> gt2 -> ts7 -> chorus -> amp


*btw shredcow, have you bought a reverb pedal yet? im thinking of getting one for my setup

 

[Viruz]

ahhh...Now i see it..The problem is GT-2 is an emulated pedal.Running it to amp input makes it sound muddy.
Try it this way....guitar->ts7->gt-2->chorus->EQ pedal->amp effect rtn....So that way no tweaking of amp tone ctrl..Yr EQ pedal gives all the tone that u need.

 

[ShredCow]

Hmmm... okay, lemme break it down.

2x EMG 81 in a mahogany body, maple set neck LTD explorer (fixed bridge)
ernie ball .10 tuned to D standard

Okay, its a dark tone right? Your guitar should sound like a beast with gain, uber heavy and bassy aye? Okay, lets note this...

Guitar has more lower midrange, powerful bass.

sansamp gt2, marshall/hi-gain/center setting

This is a nice setting... i prefer the marshall setting over the Mesa, sounds more articulate and clear. I see you like the more modern center setting, I prefer the classic!

But whats your GAIN, Bass and Treble settings?

ibanez ts7 drive=0 , tone = 8, level = varies (i use it to smoothen the tone
for lead or solos, gt2 as it is, is a lil harsh sounding)

I can see that you will be getting a VERY smooth lead tone.. Do you have a problem cutting with this? If you do, up the tone some more. also, note when the ts7 is on, you will lose clarity when playing chords or double stops.

yamaha chorus - rarely use it, only for cleans coz emgs suck at it

Hehe... you don't use this for distortion?

so this is how it goes
guitar -> gt2 -> ts7 -> chorus -> amp

There is nothing wrong with this setting, but the thing is, that you should try going like this first.

guitar -> gt2 -> ts7 -> chorus -> SPEAKERS/HEADPHONES

From there, tweak to get a good sound, THEN you plug to amp.

If you get a tone you really like, go from guitar straight to speakers and listen to the pure guitar tone. Then tweak your amp's clean to sound as close as possible to that. Then run your chain as per normal.

If you get a tone you find its still lacking... like too bassy, too biting treble-wise etc... then you have to tweak your amp to as above, THEN boost/cut to desired tone with your normal chain.

*btw shredcow, have you bought a reverb pedal yet? im thinking of getting one for my setup

I have. A Holy Grail reverb. PM me and we can talk about it.