guitar refinishing help.

[bopakeh]

Then what, send a guitar to someone that makes tables and chairs to repair? You're damn funny man.

Oh, almondx sent the guitar to a GUITAR shop. And he wasn't happy. Then someone from Sadowsky's bloodline suggested French polish - a technique which is hundreds of years old, but still relevant - on a modern PRS with a poly finish.

Given the above situation, I'll take my chances with a furniture guy! Laugh all you want, ignorance can be bliss sometimes, delusion makes people happier. Watch the matrix for a soft example.

 

[Prataz]

Woah.. now it's like a logic test for aguements

How abt my Stats test for tonality =)

Have a sample size of 50 ppl to listen to two similar guitars but with different finish.

Then use a stat test to see 95% confident interval to determine if the tone change

Shiok right?

 

[sanXp]

So you're telling almondx to send his $5k guitar to a furniture guy and be ignorant about it. :lol: It's interesting to have people like you around.

 

[stars]

sigh.

its like sending a worn out car to the mechanic.

for instance, you can choose to have a F1 winning team engineer to take a look at your car and a mom n pop shop mechanic who has a half century experience in fixing your run of the mill cars.

which one would you pick ?

pretty much the same argument in a different context.

one is familar with all the theoreatical and fundamental knowledge of how something operates and given the right tools, materials and circumstances, can build and create one for you.

however, the other is more concerned with the practical aspect of how something functions and can deliever for you the optimal performance and get things done and working for a much lesser price.

your call ? essentially thier job scope and product delivery is basically the same argument as a luthier and a furniture painter with respect to finishing issues.

 

[bopakeh]

s

one is familar with all the theoreatical and fundamental knowledge of how something operates and given the right tools, materials and circumstances, can build and create one for you.

however, the other is more concerned with the practical aspect of how something functions and can deliever for you the optimal performance and get things done and working for a much lesser price.

Thank you stars, you are one of the few here that understands English. Cheers.

 

[bopakeh]

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99580&highlight=french+polish

For the more inclined, more suggestions and opinions here. And real pics to add.

 

[sanXp]

Dude, a $5k PRS guitar hardly qualifies as a 'worn out car'. I wouldn't consider a luthier an 'F1 engineer' either. A PRS would be better described as a Ferrari, and a luthier, an upmarket mechanic.

Given this, I would send my Ferrari to an upmarket mechanic anytime, without even thinking twice.

 

[Beefy]

Dude, a $5k PRS guitar hardly qualifies as a 'worn out car'. I wouldn't consider a luthier an 'F1 engineer' either. A PRS would be better described as a Ferrari, and a luthier, an upmarket mechanic.

Given this, I would send my Ferrari to an upmarket mechanic anytime, without even thinking twice.

I beg to differ, but I would send my Ferrari to the agent's mechanic. If there weren't an agent's workshop for the car, I wouldn't have bought a Ferrari in the first place.

 

[sanXp]

I beg to differ, but I would send my Ferrari to the agent's mechanic. If there weren't an agent's workshop for the car, I wouldn't have bought a Ferrari in the first place.

Well but that's the case of almondx's PRS, what to do? Are you going to scold him for buying a PRS now?

 

[almondx]

Whoa this is getting out of hand. The reason I've decided to use french polish was because I don't really have a choice given my limited funds. Edit: Besides, I don't think there is any other local tech more capable than our very own Malcolm.

I am affected by dents on my guitar, because a PRS is so superbly finished that any dent will stand out an imperfection among perfection. For my other guitars I really do not care.

Note that I will still have my damaged PRS finish below the french polish, which will offer protection as well to the wood. Since french polish is easily repaired, I will not be concerned about any minor damages to it. The opposite goes to the PRS finish.

About the furniture guy vs luthier finishing debate, well PRS uses the exact same finishes as the Forumla 1 Racing Cars. In fact limited edition models are on their website now which highlight this fact. However there must be a reason why they do not simply send it to a car finisher to have their guitars sprayed, instead employing their own specialised staff.

I believe there are furniture makers out there who are indeed capable of doing guitars. I've seen a few instruments done on other forums that way. But I wouldnt risk it myself personally here in sg.

 

[Beefy]

No one is scolding him! 8)

As stated, he has decided on his course of action. Let us see how long the French finish/polish done by the "luthier" can last!

It is his money, he can do whatever he wants!

 

[bopakeh]

So you're telling almondx to send his $5k guitar to a furniture guy and be ignorant about it. :lol: It's interesting to have people like you around.

In case you are wondering, some expert furniture restorers - they can be found here - handle works of art worth much more than the PRS. Blindly accepting bold claims here is not going to help, including my own. It would be good if anyone can argue factually based on the points I presented.

Manuel Contreras was a cabinet maker turned classical builder. In fact almost all famous luthiers are from a carpentry or some sort of wood working background. Making a great sounding guitar is much more than the finish. And hell yes, furniture guys can make the finish really thin too, which is essentially good for tone. Lacquer is laquer, shellac is shellac. The type that luthiers use are not tested on an oscilloscope for the most resonant frequency response.

Almondx: If you are aware of what a french polish is and how delicate it is and still want to go ahead, that's cool because I'm sure Malcolm can make it look very good. But be prepared for it to ding easily.

 

[almondx]

Yups Bopakeh =) I'm sure Malcolm can make it look good. After all this is probably a temporary solution til I can finally have PRS refinish it.

Mmm enlighten me and my IKEA mind but there are actually pro furniture restorers here?

You're right too about many luthiers coming from carpentry back ground. Especially the small shop custom guitar builders!

I won't mind a really good furniture restorer cum guitar tech refinishing mine, but the problem comes in when he has been a furniture restorer only. Just makes me feel safe that my prs is not his guinea pig into the world of luthier craft!

 

[mulyadi]

Edit: Besides, I don't think there is any other local tech more capable than our very own Malcolm.

no offence but this is a subjective issue...i think it is a disservice to the industry here for someone to just state that luthier 'a' is the best or luthier 'b' is the worst.

how do you judge who's best? by prices? by recommendations?

i would say that saying Malcom is one of the more capable local tech would be more logical. (not an endorsement or anything, never have dealt with malcom or seen his 'services')

then would you say that the many other capable technicians around are not as capable as Malcom?

 

[bopakeh]

There are quite a few, I can hook you up with some of them if you're really keen. But they are the hokkien pai one if u know what I mean. They practically apprenticed as wood workders since young and till today are still doing it. I like carpentry as a hobby but I've never had the time to get into it. Guitar playing takes up too much time already. =) But if you've choosen your french polish route, I'm sure Malcolm will fulfill your needs more than adequately. Just make sure its not hardware store shellac.

 

[Beefy]

almondx: best of luck to your restoration process by Malcolm and the suggested french polish! It is just a temporary solution and you know it! In my honest opinion, 2 months max given our current temperatures and humidity. Thin coat, but what the heck! Just to conclude, it takes about a year to really view the optimized result if the instrument remains untouched and kept in a cool dry place!

 

[bopakeh]

then would you say that the many other capable technicians around are not as capable as Malcom?

Damnit, it's Malcolm, can you guys at least have the decency to get his name right? 8)

 

[almondx]

Alright thanks guys for all your inputs! Yups I do feel it's a temporary solution. Malcolm himself said that french polish was more for it's tonal qualities rather than protecting the wood. This is a great forum!

Ah about the capabilities part; i'm actualli doing it in comparision with the other "big time" repair shops: sinamex, guitar workshop, guitar connection, guitar hospital etc etc.

 

[almondx]

Beefy - Just got off the fone with Malcolm, it's actually a misconception that french polish is a delicate finish. According to him, most guitar/violin makers actually apply the thinnest coat possible and hence whatever material be it poly/acrylic/epoxy urethane/nitro/shellac in a thin coat it WILL ding easily. Hence if we build up the french polish properly there should be no reason why it will be delicate.

The gibson forum: it looks the way it is because french polish is the base coat which the person slowly built up with tung oil (a diluted varnish).

Also, Malcolm is kindly taking a bit of time to teach me how to french polish, he is not charging me for anything! In fact even giving me the materials and stuff to get started. And the staff are specially brought in from the states - the best money can buy. For this I must really be grateful =)

He is currently working on a nylon classical with an original french polish coat, there are no dings at all. Besides, he has done a few guitar necks in french polish, and note that they are subjected to frequent playing! What's interesting is that they still look as good as day 1! He will soon be posting pics of the classical on his site.

Yups just to clear up a few doubts and misunderstandings abt french polishing =) Once again thanks to all for your inputs!

 

[Beefy]

Ok, I wish you all the best almondz!