Gig openings... hah....
- Thread starter WandaFoo
- Start date
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
I'll have to agree with Wanda on this. This is not the first thread (most probably the 20th+) regarding such an issue. It usually ends up with both giggers and organisers flaming each other mindlessly. I hope this thread can remain as objective as it currently is now.
It is hard to pull out exact figures on how much each aspect of gig organising cost if one has not done it. I feel that this is the reason why some bands are still supporting the "sell 10/20 tickets to play at my gig" (or pay the unsold tickets) thing, and still feel that its worth it.
Reasons why these bands might have come to that conclusion:
1) They are desperate for shows.
2) They are rich.
3) They have rich friends.
4) They are clueless.
5) They CAN really sell those amount of tickets with ease.
If we do some elementary maths now, we can that, in an event, if 10 bands are required to sell 15 $12 tickets each, that will sum up to $1800. $1.8k is not a lot if the gig was held at a high profile venue (and this means most non-clubs/pubs/studios/usually gig areas) and if the equipment was top-notch (7-mic'ed drums, full stack amps and rented sound reinforcements). But does the above mentioned scenario usually happen at such venue with such equipment?
For me, my band ever paid to play before. Not 1 by these organisers but a personal private gig i a friend's house. Though we brought our own guitar and bass amps, we still had to rent the drums, 2 loud speakers, a mixer, 2 mics and 2 mic stands. I had a great bargain with a certain some1 in Excelsior 2nd floor and he provided them for $300. (Yes, $300 is small but my band of five had to cover that by ourselves).
I had to say that this basic configuration sounded perfect for a medium sized hall. And yes $300... Wanda mentioned not more than $700 but if these regular "pay-to-play-at-my-gig" gig organisers are as resourceful as I think they should be, It shouldn't be more than $600 for the type of equipment they're getting.
So that leaves $1.2k for rental of space (indoors)/administrative cost (something like printing tickets and advertising on soft? and getting bands to advertise/sell tickets). If renting an indoor venue like dxo or similar really cost $1k and internet/ink/power bill totals to $200 for an event, I'll rest my case and I take back my words...
It is hard to pull out exact figures on how much each aspect of gig organising cost if one has not done it. I feel that this is the reason why some bands are still supporting the "sell 10/20 tickets to play at my gig" (or pay the unsold tickets) thing, and still feel that its worth it.
Reasons why these bands might have come to that conclusion:
1) They are desperate for shows.
2) They are rich.
3) They have rich friends.
4) They are clueless.
5) They CAN really sell those amount of tickets with ease.
If we do some elementary maths now, we can that, in an event, if 10 bands are required to sell 15 $12 tickets each, that will sum up to $1800. $1.8k is not a lot if the gig was held at a high profile venue (and this means most non-clubs/pubs/studios/usually gig areas) and if the equipment was top-notch (7-mic'ed drums, full stack amps and rented sound reinforcements). But does the above mentioned scenario usually happen at such venue with such equipment?
For me, my band ever paid to play before. Not 1 by these organisers but a personal private gig i a friend's house. Though we brought our own guitar and bass amps, we still had to rent the drums, 2 loud speakers, a mixer, 2 mics and 2 mic stands. I had a great bargain with a certain some1 in Excelsior 2nd floor and he provided them for $300. (Yes, $300 is small but my band of five had to cover that by ourselves).
I had to say that this basic configuration sounded perfect for a medium sized hall. And yes $300... Wanda mentioned not more than $700 but if these regular "pay-to-play-at-my-gig" gig organisers are as resourceful as I think they should be, It shouldn't be more than $600 for the type of equipment they're getting.
So that leaves $1.2k for rental of space (indoors)/administrative cost (something like printing tickets and advertising on soft? and getting bands to advertise/sell tickets). If renting an indoor venue like dxo or similar really cost $1k and internet/ink/power bill totals to $200 for an event, I'll rest my case and I take back my words...
WandaFoo
New member
Side note
good ideas... thanks for the thought *grin*
**btw.... impt note: alot of these gigs are at studios, which have the space and equipment... why is this impt.. go figure...
*whacks itchy fingers* no more typing on this post.... time consuming....
good ideas... thanks for the thought *grin*
**btw.... impt note: alot of these gigs are at studios, which have the space and equipment... why is this impt.. go figure...
*whacks itchy fingers* no more typing on this post.... time consuming....
I personally had to sell tickets for my band to perform and my band had to sell a minimum of 20 tickets out of 30 tickets... Of course, we stand to gain some commission. But it was rather pathetic and we only earned $2 per ticket.
When it sums up, our total commission is definitely not enough to cover our expenses spent on jamming and other stuff... Not that I'm really complaining anyway...
The deal sounds actually quite reasonable to a certain extent. Because if we look from a organizer's point of view, we will definitely want to have at least some profits from the gig. After all, an organizer still has to ply his trade and earn some money.
Of course, from a band's point of view, it sounds like an extortion. Well, if we can't sell the tickets, no one will want to watch the show and what's the point of performing for a meagre number of audience? Especially when the music scene in Singapore is very immature...
We can only wait for some form of progression till the day organizers are willing to even pay the bands to perform... I predict the day will eventually come as the music scene slowly matures...
Of course, we can try to help. But remember, there are always two sides to it... We can't leave out one side just for the other. We need to reach an equilibrium state.
When it sums up, our total commission is definitely not enough to cover our expenses spent on jamming and other stuff... Not that I'm really complaining anyway...
The deal sounds actually quite reasonable to a certain extent. Because if we look from a organizer's point of view, we will definitely want to have at least some profits from the gig. After all, an organizer still has to ply his trade and earn some money.
Of course, from a band's point of view, it sounds like an extortion. Well, if we can't sell the tickets, no one will want to watch the show and what's the point of performing for a meagre number of audience? Especially when the music scene in Singapore is very immature...
We can only wait for some form of progression till the day organizers are willing to even pay the bands to perform... I predict the day will eventually come as the music scene slowly matures...
Of course, we can try to help. But remember, there are always two sides to it... We can't leave out one side just for the other. We need to reach an equilibrium state.
Ized
New member
i think to make matters worse, if the tickets you'r selling to are to friends who are paying to come down to see you, all the more you wouldn't want to earn their money- which means no commission! I don't really know about other bands but i know i'll never take my friend's money....especially if they had to fork out 10 over bucks just to come and see you perform for 20-30 min?
Look, I've heard many people in this thread say that getting paid gigs is hard. Whats so hard about it? If you know your band can play good music, then all you guys need is a strong mind set of getting that audition and blowing the organizer away.
All my gigs have either been paid, or done for charity. If I have ever done a pay to play gig then it was someone else who paid and not me cause Im not desperate. Bands are just stupidly lazy man!
I agree on a point someone else made too which was, "To eliminate the problem; don't look for the problem!"
Put it this way:
- Bands that get paid for their performances - Hard Working!
- Bands that pay to play at gigs/events - Lazy Hobo!
All my gigs have either been paid, or done for charity. If I have ever done a pay to play gig then it was someone else who paid and not me cause Im not desperate. Bands are just stupidly lazy man!
I agree on a point someone else made too which was, "To eliminate the problem; don't look for the problem!"
Put it this way:
- Bands that get paid for their performances - Hard Working!
- Bands that pay to play at gigs/events - Lazy Hobo!
WandaFoo, it is good that you have organised gigs before, at least, you know the work involved.
I think your stated $300 is a reasonable profit considering all the work, stress and responsibilities a promoter has to bear.
That said, the band should get $300 too! Cos they entertained the audience.
So, the promoter has to work even harder to get sponsorships and more audience.
So far, SOFT has not organised a gig. I have done workshop kind of gatherings with setup almost like a small gig. Venue is sponsored, equipment is sponsored and I give a little token to the workshop presenters from my own pocket.
I must really re-think how to make the $300.
I think your stated $300 is a reasonable profit considering all the work, stress and responsibilities a promoter has to bear.
That said, the band should get $300 too! Cos they entertained the audience.
So, the promoter has to work even harder to get sponsorships and more audience.
So far, SOFT has not organised a gig. I have done workshop kind of gatherings with setup almost like a small gig. Venue is sponsored, equipment is sponsored and I give a little token to the workshop presenters from my own pocket.
I must really re-think how to make the $300.
paganified
New member
new bands usually grab an opportunity that come their way.
they need to start some place right?
sell tickets, then sell tickets la.
chill.
they need to start some place right?
sell tickets, then sell tickets la.
chill.
You know with the amount of publicity and sponsorship SOFT has, SOFT could put on a really memorable event with everyone or most people making profits.
James and some select members can audition bands and see which bands are worth putting on such a show (obviously not those who are already working bands). Sponsors can help with venues and equipment and since most every musician in Singapore knows SOFT or people in it, they would definitely pay to come down and watch!
And crew such as Audio Engineers etc etc or stage men or others can just be volunteers from SOFT itself with some perks like F&B and being part of something that really helps the Singapore music scene!
James I dunno if you know who much POWER you have! hehehe. Ok not in an Adolf Hitler sense but in the sense of organizing a killer event!
EDIT: And this can all be done during a SOFT BBQ! Woo!
James and some select members can audition bands and see which bands are worth putting on such a show (obviously not those who are already working bands). Sponsors can help with venues and equipment and since most every musician in Singapore knows SOFT or people in it, they would definitely pay to come down and watch!
And crew such as Audio Engineers etc etc or stage men or others can just be volunteers from SOFT itself with some perks like F&B and being part of something that really helps the Singapore music scene!
James I dunno if you know who much POWER you have! hehehe. Ok not in an Adolf Hitler sense but in the sense of organizing a killer event!
EDIT: And this can all be done during a SOFT BBQ! Woo!
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I recalled there was a big flaming thread about Gaus Haus sometime ago. Has it died down?
Maybe the management has changed,maybe the place has been renamed,but examples of selling tickets as a mean to promote bands are still going on.
I would take my stand on wandafoo, because she has stated the clear picture of the scene,and we would'nt want to point fingers as to who are such people. It is left for the bands to find out themselves eventually.
Why not sincere bands who feels the same way as her contact her and minimise this 'selling tickets to perform' phenomenan that has occured a while back.Anyone who has studied Economics will understand the concept behind it.
Maybe the management has changed,maybe the place has been renamed,but examples of selling tickets as a mean to promote bands are still going on.
I would take my stand on wandafoo, because she has stated the clear picture of the scene,and we would'nt want to point fingers as to who are such people. It is left for the bands to find out themselves eventually.
Why not sincere bands who feels the same way as her contact her and minimise this 'selling tickets to perform' phenomenan that has occured a while back.Anyone who has studied Economics will understand the concept behind it.
SherT
New member
To the dude above me, you might wanna take note that even Redbar is no more.
Consider this; booking a venue costs money. Let me give you one example. Last I checked, Playden at Arts House was $800 for a 3-hour block or something to that effect. The average turnout for a small show there would be somewhere in the ballpark of 70-100 people, and that's on a good day. Unless the bands bring their own equipment or its provided by the house, and the entire crew including the soundman and any incidental lighting/technical people are doing the show on a voluntary basis, somebody has to pay for these.
Equipment rental runs about $150-$250 for a show, including transport and setup, sometimes bundled with the technician's services, who may also double up as the soundman. That brings our hypothetical total expenditure to somewhere between $800 and $1150, not including any incidental expenses that may be incurred such as ticket printing (ever wondered why everyone uses ink stamps these days?) or crew welfare (drinks/food, etc). Damaged equipment incurs even more expenses.
Let's assume that the turnout exceeds all expectations, and 150 people show up. Selling tickets for $10 each, that leaves the organiser with $1500 at the end of the show. (Reality check; this almost never happens in Singapore unless you have a really big draw act playing in your show.)
Subtracting all overheads, this leaves a window of $350, of which the obligatory $50-100 will go missing because some joker spent it somewhere without taking note of it, or some ticket runners go MIA. $300 split among the average bill of around 7 bands, that's $43 per band, assuming that everything runs under the BEST conditions. Not forgetting that from this $300, some may have to be taken out as compensation for damaged equipment (don't call organisers lame when they tell your drummer not to hantam so hard, there's a reason for it) and incidental expenses.
All these things aside, we haven't even taken into consideration printing posters to advertise the show (this will set you back around 20 bucks at bras basah), and how the turnout would be like if bands didn't sell tickets, to their friends or complete strangers or otherwise. Imagine if they didnt sell the tickets to their friends (whether or not they actually show up is irrelevant, the ticket money still comes in), and the turnout was even less? What's more, we are already assuming that everyone on the team is doing this on a volunteer basis, and not getting paid to spend long hours chasing venues and managing funds.
I'm not all for the sell-tickets to play system, but sometimes you have to be realistic lah. If organisers are going to have to be digging deep into their pockets all the time to keep shows running, all that's gonna happen is there will be less opportunities for bands to play cos they will start dropping like flies. Not everyone is a generous person.
The best way to make a difference? Get a few bands together, work with your friends, pool money and put on a show together, that's the best way to bypass all the he-said-she-said garbage, because the responsibility becomes a shared one. If the show's a success, everbody earns together.
Consider this; booking a venue costs money. Let me give you one example. Last I checked, Playden at Arts House was $800 for a 3-hour block or something to that effect. The average turnout for a small show there would be somewhere in the ballpark of 70-100 people, and that's on a good day. Unless the bands bring their own equipment or its provided by the house, and the entire crew including the soundman and any incidental lighting/technical people are doing the show on a voluntary basis, somebody has to pay for these.
Equipment rental runs about $150-$250 for a show, including transport and setup, sometimes bundled with the technician's services, who may also double up as the soundman. That brings our hypothetical total expenditure to somewhere between $800 and $1150, not including any incidental expenses that may be incurred such as ticket printing (ever wondered why everyone uses ink stamps these days?) or crew welfare (drinks/food, etc). Damaged equipment incurs even more expenses.
Let's assume that the turnout exceeds all expectations, and 150 people show up. Selling tickets for $10 each, that leaves the organiser with $1500 at the end of the show. (Reality check; this almost never happens in Singapore unless you have a really big draw act playing in your show.)
Subtracting all overheads, this leaves a window of $350, of which the obligatory $50-100 will go missing because some joker spent it somewhere without taking note of it, or some ticket runners go MIA. $300 split among the average bill of around 7 bands, that's $43 per band, assuming that everything runs under the BEST conditions. Not forgetting that from this $300, some may have to be taken out as compensation for damaged equipment (don't call organisers lame when they tell your drummer not to hantam so hard, there's a reason for it) and incidental expenses.
All these things aside, we haven't even taken into consideration printing posters to advertise the show (this will set you back around 20 bucks at bras basah), and how the turnout would be like if bands didn't sell tickets, to their friends or complete strangers or otherwise. Imagine if they didnt sell the tickets to their friends (whether or not they actually show up is irrelevant, the ticket money still comes in), and the turnout was even less? What's more, we are already assuming that everyone on the team is doing this on a volunteer basis, and not getting paid to spend long hours chasing venues and managing funds.
I'm not all for the sell-tickets to play system, but sometimes you have to be realistic lah. If organisers are going to have to be digging deep into their pockets all the time to keep shows running, all that's gonna happen is there will be less opportunities for bands to play cos they will start dropping like flies. Not everyone is a generous person.
The best way to make a difference? Get a few bands together, work with your friends, pool money and put on a show together, that's the best way to bypass all the he-said-she-said garbage, because the responsibility becomes a shared one. If the show's a success, everbody earns together.
BadgerS88, I kinda dont want to organise gigs because there are already soooo many gigs around! There are only so many bands around and we see the same bands in all the gigs.
That is why I am doing more educational stuff like workshops.
* BadgerS88, pls edit your signature image so that it is no bigger than 400(width) x 40(height).
That is why I am doing more educational stuff like workshops.
* BadgerS88, pls edit your signature image so that it is no bigger than 400(width) x 40(height).
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