Following Chords - Do you observe Classical rules?

[Creeping_Deth]

For example, in the key of C, following a C chord, we may play C Ionian, E Phrygian, or A Aeolian, for examples, then when the chord changes we may play the new chord to its modes.

However, in Jazz, in a progression of lets say CDEA, we may play C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, then A Aeolian. This is theory suicide in classical music, but it is the bread and butter of modern jazz n rock isn't it?

In a nutshell, for jazz n rock modes are treated as scales.

Is that what you guys do? Im a lil new to this, n I would like to hear your views.

 

[guitarman78]

Classical is the mother of western music ... it has centuries of historical value. And in Classical, there is actually no such thing as actual chords. In classical, a combination of notes is harmony ... and it can be quite complicated.

Chords is also called "Mordern Harmony" ... which in a way is a short cut to classical harmony .... it's also simplified and more flexible to suit the needs of the music of our day.

Regarding the examples you gave ... you are right to say following a C chord, we may play C Ionian, E Phrygian, or A Aeolian. But in a real situation, i dun think there is time for so much evaluation .... because E phrygian and A Aeolian is the same as C ionian ... there is no point in complicating things and confuse yourself with more names.

Instead ... you should simplify things by referencing everything to the respective major scale. Modes are actually meant to suit the function of the chords.

example 1: A C maj chord can function as a 1, 4 or 5 position, Hence Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian.

example 2: A C Min Chord can function as 2, 3 or 6 position. Hence Dorian, Phrygian or Aeolian.

But when playing these modes ... instead of thinking aboout modes, it's relly easier to reference it to it's respective major scale because in actual situations, you have no time to think about modes .It's faster to think abouot Major scale ... but you know which mode you are playing.

example 3: When you play Cmin7, F7, Bbmaj9 .... you are playing C dorian, F Mixolydian and Bb Ionian. But you are actually playing Bb Ionian .... is there a point to think about Dorian or Mixolydian?

example 4: |E maj7 Ebm7| Db mm7 Bmaj9| What major scale is that?

example 5: |Am7 G#7(#5)| Gm7 C9| Fmaj7|Fmin7 Bb7|Eb6/9| This is a combination ... change of key. Hence there is more than one major scales involved. Can figure out what that is?

And for your analysis about Jazz progression, jazz solos are more than just scales. Scale analysis is only one such tool to define a jazz melody. But Jazz melodies are much more intricate with combination of scales, chord tones, passign tones and tensions. And you can never define a jazz melody under a scale becaue jazz melodies are much more fluid and unconstrained. A bit too much to cover within this forum. If you are interested, i can tell you more but for now, my fingers a bit tired ... hehe ... so have fun with the chord analysis.

 

[Creeping_Deth]

Yea I know jazz is way more than scales, but ima beginner studying jazz, so ima tryin the modal approach.

Thanks for the tips man, Im waiting to hear more if you dont mind. Your examples are mind boggling, I don't know if i'll ever truly get them haha. Its kinda hard without a live teacher as words fail to convey.

 

[thor666]

my take: you can do anything. yes, literally everything. but, you must know what you're doing. referring to your jazz example, it's CDEA, you can consider them as key changes, or extensions of a C Major key, etc. (i've no idea about jazz though, this is basically what i apply to any song.)

for me, i like to just chuck the theory aside when i write songs - it seems to be more of a barrier to me than a tool. Modes seem to be the biggest barrier to me. I prefer to just try and visualize and put the sound from my head onto the guitar.

 

[Creeping_Deth]

But you have unlimited time when writing. But if you wanna make up one on the spot, sometimes you need to find the templates(scales) even if you don't plan to follow it fully.

 

[thor666]

that's when i hit the panic button :lol:

or i just play out something that follows the major or minor scale and start altering notes randomly. i've no flair for such kinds of improvisation though and i can't work with modes for the lowe, so yea, that's how i go about doing it.

 

[guitarman78]

I believe theory and training is just part of practice .... a discipline that you need to acquire to sharpen your senses. As i've said many times ... the most important asset of a musician is the "ears" ... some ppl have it ... some people dun. For me, i need theory because i dun really have very good ears.

Yup when i compose, i dun refer to theory either. It will make the song sound very mechanical. But theory helps me to "respond" to situations in a natural way ... hence i dun "think" about it ... i just merely respond.

Hence it's important to cultivate our musical senses .... and yet not let the mechanical stuff prevent our creative juices from flowing.