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unsane
Member
alright...i'll bite.
Hamartia - Reaching Dissension (from their forthcoming EP)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dcwmwn or www.myspace.com/inversionSG if the download link doesnt work.
Drums: kick (SM57) and snare (SM57) are triggered, though the snare is mixed in with the original. SM57 on the rack tom, D112s on the floor toms.
414s on the overheads and a neuman TLM for room mic (used sparingly)
Guitars: single 57 on a modded peavey rockmaster preamp, marshall 8008 poweramp and marshall cab, quad tracked.
Bass: sansamp bass driver DI
Vocals: SM58,handheld and no pop filter. works great on heavy vocals.
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i personally favor an Audix D6 on kick (only mic i'd use untriggered for rock and heavier genres), 57 or audix i5 on snare (top/bottom depending on drumsound), MD421s/57s for rack toms, D112s for floortoms.
guitar cabs - good old 57 is still king, though the i5 is giving it a run for its money sometimes. why mess with multiple mics, get the mic position and proper amp settings right and you're done.
bass - always tracked DI, with a clean split for later reamping.
vocals - always a question of using the right mic for the voice and style..speaking from experience many screamers find it hard to give a good performance with headphones on singing into a condensor through a stand. handheld 58, no cans, monitors cranked to hell and dont worry about the bleed. with clean vocalists i'd basically take any good condensor with a smooth top end.
on a more potentially inflammatory note, i find current production neumanns highly overated for the price they command. actually A-B'd a studio projects C1 to a u87 through an avalon 737 and it was 90% there at less then a tenth of the price. u47 FETs still kill though.
Hamartia - Reaching Dissension (from their forthcoming EP)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dcwmwn or www.myspace.com/inversionSG if the download link doesnt work.
Drums: kick (SM57) and snare (SM57) are triggered, though the snare is mixed in with the original. SM57 on the rack tom, D112s on the floor toms.
414s on the overheads and a neuman TLM for room mic (used sparingly)
Guitars: single 57 on a modded peavey rockmaster preamp, marshall 8008 poweramp and marshall cab, quad tracked.
Bass: sansamp bass driver DI
Vocals: SM58,handheld and no pop filter. works great on heavy vocals.
-
i personally favor an Audix D6 on kick (only mic i'd use untriggered for rock and heavier genres), 57 or audix i5 on snare (top/bottom depending on drumsound), MD421s/57s for rack toms, D112s for floortoms.
guitar cabs - good old 57 is still king, though the i5 is giving it a run for its money sometimes. why mess with multiple mics, get the mic position and proper amp settings right and you're done.
bass - always tracked DI, with a clean split for later reamping.
vocals - always a question of using the right mic for the voice and style..speaking from experience many screamers find it hard to give a good performance with headphones on singing into a condensor through a stand. handheld 58, no cans, monitors cranked to hell and dont worry about the bleed. with clean vocalists i'd basically take any good condensor with a smooth top end.
on a more potentially inflammatory note, i find current production neumanns highly overated for the price they command. actually A-B'd a studio projects C1 to a u87 through an avalon 737 and it was 90% there at less then a tenth of the price. u47 FETs still kill though.
blueprintstudios
New member
cool, i <3 my i5 & d6
I must bite the bullet sometime. I really wanted to rerecord this cus its was done a while back and it doesnt sound as nice as my mixes to date. But i tried hard to remix and master blah blah but only so much u can do. Please be nice 
www.myspace.com/theexxit - Highway Star Cover
www.myspace.com/theexxit - Highway Star Cover
blueprintstudios
New member
what preamps/daw you using?
blueprintstudios
New member
anyway I just heard it, sounds good old school style hahah. but just err just somethin with the kick drum and snare that sounds weird though. decent cover, keep it up hehe
and ask your drummer to practise on her rolls. I hear alot of sataystick rolls
cheers
and ask your drummer to practise on her rolls. I hear alot of sataystick rolls
cheers
To be honest its not my drummer, cus she couldnt make it, but we hadnt had time to rerecord it. The drummer is actually *whispers*-Kevin Corey. And plus I rushed the mic up on the drums. for everything else is line in. For myself whenever I record my guitars I always use my Vox ToneLab SE which sounds amazing line-in. Its got 12AX tube in it... :lol:
But never mind. Thnx for your comment. Made my day
But never mind. Thnx for your comment. Made my day
blueprintstudios
New member
hmmm not sure who kevin corey is. I may have heard bad things about him or another person. then again it's unrelated to mixing hehe. but yeah your Vox Tonelab sounds pretty suitable for this genre and good for a D.I.
what DAW do you use to mix?
what DAW do you use to mix?
blueprintstudios
New member
ah icic... well keep us updated if there's more new tracks.
I tested live-jam recording at fourtones jam studio over the weekend I'll try to mix see if it sounds okay to use as a portfolio/post it up here.
erm i guess i won't comment further regarding kevin corey. I may have gotten the wrong person (another kevin) or lead to misunderstandings and the mixing discussion may stray hehe.
I tested live-jam recording at fourtones jam studio over the weekend I'll try to mix see if it sounds okay to use as a portfolio/post it up here.
erm i guess i won't comment further regarding kevin corey. I may have gotten the wrong person (another kevin) or lead to misunderstandings and the mixing discussion may stray hehe.
Hey hey. Just finished recording for a band. Mixed and mastered already. What dya think? They sound like Evanessence.
www.myspace.com/aphoniaband
www.myspace.com/aphoniaband
unsane
Member
i stumbled across this on myspace some time ago, didnt know you did it.
hard to tell from myspace but its a decent sounding demo recording IMO, its lacking abit of clarity and the low end is fairly muddy.
i would've treated the vocals differently..the evanescence comparisons are a good starting point, i would've smashed the hell out of them with compressors..L-R delays and a nice reverb for that slick feel..right now it sounds rather raw and underproduced,especially the backing/harmony/adlib lines.
take a listen to www.myspace.com/mezavirs - "Crestfallen", alot of Evanescence comparions on that one :?
the piano at the start is a little harsh and too direct,in your face like. the guitar leads under the vocals could be taken down slightly i think, they distract from the vocals a little.
did you just engineer the recording or were you involved in the production aspect at all? great vocalists, but what i hear are two singers with a very traditional,R&B like church music background singing modern rock.. its especially apparent in their melodies and phrasing. strictly a matter of taste but i believe with a stronger producer working with the band they could have shifted into a more modern contemporary direction..
all in all its a step up from your previous recording though..keep it going..
hard to tell from myspace but its a decent sounding demo recording IMO, its lacking abit of clarity and the low end is fairly muddy.
i would've treated the vocals differently..the evanescence comparisons are a good starting point, i would've smashed the hell out of them with compressors..L-R delays and a nice reverb for that slick feel..right now it sounds rather raw and underproduced,especially the backing/harmony/adlib lines.
take a listen to www.myspace.com/mezavirs - "Crestfallen", alot of Evanescence comparions on that one :?
the piano at the start is a little harsh and too direct,in your face like. the guitar leads under the vocals could be taken down slightly i think, they distract from the vocals a little.
did you just engineer the recording or were you involved in the production aspect at all? great vocalists, but what i hear are two singers with a very traditional,R&B like church music background singing modern rock.. its especially apparent in their melodies and phrasing. strictly a matter of taste but i believe with a stronger producer working with the band they could have shifted into a more modern contemporary direction..
all in all its a step up from your previous recording though..keep it going..
Erm are u listening to the track thats on there now or the one that was previously on there? The one on there now is mine.
With levels and all, you have to tell the band not me. They told me how they wanted things so i adjusts incremently and what you hear is what they wanted. But personally I dont see anything wrong with this track. Seriously.
With levels and all, you have to tell the band not me. They told me how they wanted things so i adjusts incremently and what you hear is what they wanted. But personally I dont see anything wrong with this track. Seriously.
unsane
Member
referring to the track thats on there now.
i guess you asked for an opinion and i gave mine..certainly you weren't expecting glowing praise and a grammy award were you?
aight..more constructively..if the band had given you absolute free reign on the mix, what would you have done differently?
IMHO, while it's their music and money spent, "the customer is always right" does not always apply in scenarios like this..bands often have blinkers on when it comes to their music (been there many a time) and benefit greatly from having an outside opinion..thus the role of a producer.
you might want to A-B the song against tracks from evanescence, within temptation, lacuna coil etc and see how it stands up..the differences will become apparent. but like i said, its still a decent demo/EP level recording..
i guess you asked for an opinion and i gave mine..certainly you weren't expecting glowing praise and a grammy award were you?
aight..more constructively..if the band had given you absolute free reign on the mix, what would you have done differently?
IMHO, while it's their music and money spent, "the customer is always right" does not always apply in scenarios like this..bands often have blinkers on when it comes to their music (been there many a time) and benefit greatly from having an outside opinion..thus the role of a producer.
you might want to A-B the song against tracks from evanescence, within temptation, lacuna coil etc and see how it stands up..the differences will become apparent. but like i said, its still a decent demo/EP level recording..
blueprintstudios
New member
hey there. well my comments :
vocalist : err. so so. like what unsane says, wack the compressors. give it a big smack on the butt.
back vocalist abit too upfront. unless they wanted to sing "side by side" feel.
guitars = lead okay. rhythm sounds muddy/drowned.
bass = so so i guess.
drums = sound okay. like what unsane says, undermixed. rawish. i would have wanted the snare more ROCK! y'know. like a heavier reverb/punchyness. set it on fire.
piano = maybe levels abit too high. push it back and it'll be okay i guess.
overall = pumpy.(in a bad way)
but reading what you said "With levels and all, you have to tell the band not me." : in this case, you're letting the band do the mixing rather than yourself. yes it's true we have to compromise to the "client" , but after all, if they don't have their own hired producer , then seriously , call the shots. because being the engineer, you have a higher level of understanding what sounds good, and at the same time find the "X balanced point" where you compromise to the band. (at least thats how I do it)
and guess what, I categorise feedbacks in 3 sections.
1-engineers (optional)
2-the recording band and other bands of similar genre.
3-normal consumers.
first, the mix has to impress "3" , then "2" , then finally we talk about "1", the reason why I say "(optional)" is we all have different characters. unless we learned under the same book/lecturer (I didn't have one) and we all followed the same stagnant path. "1" is just a casual question like "I wonder how would other engineers have said.". after all, you must be one hell of a producer/recording/mixing engineer if you impress all 1,2,3 like how our "idol-references" (in my case, mark trombino/rob cavallo/jerry finn/nick launay) do.
if you let the band do the mixing (even if it's just levels) , then you should ask bands for feedback rather than "Engineers feedback forums". unless the band die die tells you they're not going to pay you a cent if you don't go with their mixing. then maybe what you should do is pass a re-mixed version (like what unsane says, your own full controlled mix) and post it up here.
Now see what happens, let the band mix, if consumers complain that it sounds bad, you take it as "the band wanted it this way = no comments" , but they might think "you didn't take initiative to call shots. it's your job what." thats why some bands know me to be quite stubborn when I really really feel some parts of a mix should be done my way confidently. the band aren't happy with me at that point.but they tend to forget about the grudge (even thank me) after the release of it and consumers says (my suggestion) sounds good. Cos I'd go on, be a man and take the blame if it sounds bad.take the glory if it sounds good. I'd rather regret the things that I do than the things I DIDN'T do.
sorry if I appear rough on ya, but i'm sure all of us have the "ah damn the mix sucks mainly because the band didn't perform well during recording" sessions. where we use the crap band as a blame finger to point at. but in your case, I really do feel the band would have sounded better with more mixing effort (engineers are always capable of doing more than 100% right?), discipline (you got to speak "louder" than the band and call the shots.), and experience (you're better now compared to your older mixes).
keep it up!
90¢ worth.
vocalist : err. so so. like what unsane says, wack the compressors. give it a big smack on the butt.
back vocalist abit too upfront. unless they wanted to sing "side by side" feel.
guitars = lead okay. rhythm sounds muddy/drowned.
bass = so so i guess.
drums = sound okay. like what unsane says, undermixed. rawish. i would have wanted the snare more ROCK! y'know. like a heavier reverb/punchyness. set it on fire.
piano = maybe levels abit too high. push it back and it'll be okay i guess.
overall = pumpy.(in a bad way)
but reading what you said "With levels and all, you have to tell the band not me." : in this case, you're letting the band do the mixing rather than yourself. yes it's true we have to compromise to the "client" , but after all, if they don't have their own hired producer , then seriously , call the shots. because being the engineer, you have a higher level of understanding what sounds good, and at the same time find the "X balanced point" where you compromise to the band. (at least thats how I do it)
and guess what, I categorise feedbacks in 3 sections.
1-engineers (optional)
2-the recording band and other bands of similar genre.
3-normal consumers.
first, the mix has to impress "3" , then "2" , then finally we talk about "1", the reason why I say "(optional)" is we all have different characters. unless we learned under the same book/lecturer (I didn't have one) and we all followed the same stagnant path. "1" is just a casual question like "I wonder how would other engineers have said.". after all, you must be one hell of a producer/recording/mixing engineer if you impress all 1,2,3 like how our "idol-references" (in my case, mark trombino/rob cavallo/jerry finn/nick launay) do.
if you let the band do the mixing (even if it's just levels) , then you should ask bands for feedback rather than "Engineers feedback forums". unless the band die die tells you they're not going to pay you a cent if you don't go with their mixing. then maybe what you should do is pass a re-mixed version (like what unsane says, your own full controlled mix) and post it up here.
Now see what happens, let the band mix, if consumers complain that it sounds bad, you take it as "the band wanted it this way = no comments" , but they might think "you didn't take initiative to call shots. it's your job what." thats why some bands know me to be quite stubborn when I really really feel some parts of a mix should be done my way confidently. the band aren't happy with me at that point.but they tend to forget about the grudge (even thank me) after the release of it and consumers says (my suggestion) sounds good. Cos I'd go on, be a man and take the blame if it sounds bad.take the glory if it sounds good. I'd rather regret the things that I do than the things I DIDN'T do.
sorry if I appear rough on ya, but i'm sure all of us have the "ah damn the mix sucks mainly because the band didn't perform well during recording" sessions. where we use the crap band as a blame finger to point at. but in your case, I really do feel the band would have sounded better with more mixing effort (engineers are always capable of doing more than 100% right?), discipline (you got to speak "louder" than the band and call the shots.), and experience (you're better now compared to your older mixes).
keep it up!
90¢ worth.
blueprintstudios
New member
anyway yeah, I mentioned I was going to do a trial test live-jam-mobile recording @ FourTones jam studio. it didn't turn out too well considering it's my 1st time full miking an 8 piece band with an 8 track recorder + a behringer 5 xlr channel mixer + peavey 6 xlr channel mixer and no chance (well 30 seconds in between song breaks) to soundcheck. just to warn ya, it's no big hoohah quality.loads of problems churned up during recording.. cables not long enough.. no mic stands (just mic clamps or hanging mic over the amps).. battery power ran out. (yes the mixers run on 9Vs and I brought my UPS along.) seriously cramped 9 people into a 280sqft (the fourtone's smaller room). mic bleeds. and yeah, don't mind the band/drummer's performance, he just recovered from a hand injury haven't touched drums for like 4/5 months.
and just to highlight the problems i'm aware of myself :
poor levels on the amps, poor mic up. (I just hung the mic over the amps)
poor levels on the drums's toms (distorted) , kick (didn't EQ). terrible hihat bleed.
here's my "signal map" :
Korg #1,2 = Behringer 5 XLR channel mixer = snare/kick/tom/tom/tom
Korg #3,4 = left and right cymbals.
Korg #5 = Vocal (Jam Studio's SM58)
Korg #6 = Keyboards D.I
Korg #7,8 = Peavey 6 XLR channel mixer = LGuitar/RGuitar/Bass/Horns (1 SM57)
http://download.yousendit.com/E7AF2BB409211283
show your support for the band @ www.myspace.com/sallysrejex
and let me know you guys feedback and suggestions on how I can improve on the bleeding part especially. hehe.
and just to highlight the problems i'm aware of myself :
poor levels on the amps, poor mic up. (I just hung the mic over the amps)
poor levels on the drums's toms (distorted) , kick (didn't EQ). terrible hihat bleed.
here's my "signal map" :
Korg #1,2 = Behringer 5 XLR channel mixer = snare/kick/tom/tom/tom
Korg #3,4 = left and right cymbals.
Korg #5 = Vocal (Jam Studio's SM58)
Korg #6 = Keyboards D.I
Korg #7,8 = Peavey 6 XLR channel mixer = LGuitar/RGuitar/Bass/Horns (1 SM57)
http://download.yousendit.com/E7AF2BB409211283
show your support for the band @ www.myspace.com/sallysrejex
and let me know you guys feedback and suggestions on how I can improve on the bleeding part especially. hehe.
unsane
Member
wow yeah that hihat is everywhere. i suppose with a small room there's not much you can do about it, apart from maybe trying to baffle it off with a plexiglass shield? would be hell for that insane load you're already carrying though.
i don't know if it'd work in this situation,but here's one trick i use for getting heavy handed drummers to back off the hihat: mic it up, and slowly and sneakily start sending the hihat track back into the drummer's cans..making it as obnoxiously loud as possible (i usually slam the mids and throw an L2 on
). works like a charm.
the horn is a little drowned out but i suppose its the damn hihat. kick's kinda inaudible too.
but great job though given the limitations you were working with..i personally wouldnt try tackling a full live recording without dedicated equipment. i reckon a bigger room might help with the seperation actually.
i don't know if it'd work in this situation,but here's one trick i use for getting heavy handed drummers to back off the hihat: mic it up, and slowly and sneakily start sending the hihat track back into the drummer's cans..making it as obnoxiously loud as possible (i usually slam the mids and throw an L2 on
). works like a charm. the horn is a little drowned out but i suppose its the damn hihat. kick's kinda inaudible too.
but great job though given the limitations you were working with..i personally wouldnt try tackling a full live recording without dedicated equipment. i reckon a bigger room might help with the seperation actually.
blueprintstudios
New member
hahah yes, I can't carry anymore. it's challenging (fun at the same time) though, and killer workout carrying up the stairs at fourtones.
1 luggage = UPS (THIS IS HEAVY!) + Korg D888 + cables / mics
1 hand case = behringer mixer + 5 drum mics + cables
1 backpack = peavey mixer + DI boxes + cables + mics + headphone..
so far the only alternative I can think of is D.I the guitars/bass into a cab sim. but still... stupid vocal/horns mic picks up bleed. oh but anyway this recording can be done better in time la. when I get the toms mics replaced (to sennheisser e604s), cos I was using cheap behringer condensers. thats why hihat bled so much.
and err yeah, I don't have the "luxury" of rewire-monitoring hihats back into the drummer's headphones. the idea is for live jam/gig recording so band can play as natural/comfortable as they like.
as for horns, err the guy/girl didn't face directly at the mic too much.
kick lan lan suck thumb heheh, the kickdrum doesn't have a hole. so I put it beside the kickpedal. and didn't EQ on the mixer.
and yeah thanks for the feedback. you know of any good cab sims? or D.I pedal that's not heavy?
1 luggage = UPS (THIS IS HEAVY!) + Korg D888 + cables / mics
1 hand case = behringer mixer + 5 drum mics + cables
1 backpack = peavey mixer + DI boxes + cables + mics + headphone..
so far the only alternative I can think of is D.I the guitars/bass into a cab sim. but still... stupid vocal/horns mic picks up bleed. oh but anyway this recording can be done better in time la. when I get the toms mics replaced (to sennheisser e604s), cos I was using cheap behringer condensers. thats why hihat bled so much.
and err yeah, I don't have the "luxury" of rewire-monitoring hihats back into the drummer's headphones. the idea is for live jam/gig recording so band can play as natural/comfortable as they like.
as for horns, err the guy/girl didn't face directly at the mic too much.
kick lan lan suck thumb heheh, the kickdrum doesn't have a hole. so I put it beside the kickpedal. and didn't EQ on the mixer.
and yeah thanks for the feedback. you know of any good cab sims? or D.I pedal that's not heavy?
hey trust me im still trying to learn how to bluff a band with what ur doing whilst they are there with u. But in this case, since its just one of project where by i receive money and produce happy clients then its cool. But with every other project i also always have my own mix
what i would do differently. Drop backup vox levels a bit. bring up guitar solo toward the end since everything already sounds like a mess thats on time. snare, no matter what i did it sound incrimently the same everywhere. i agree with the lead vox part with the comp, cheers for that. IMO i think, it doesnt sound OVER compressed. just a bit to noticable compressed :lol: .
but dont get me wrong guys i do take ur guys advise otherwise i wouldnt have started this threads. cheers to all u. will apply and improve im the mean time until the next trax. ciao
what i would do differently. Drop backup vox levels a bit. bring up guitar solo toward the end since everything already sounds like a mess thats on time. snare, no matter what i did it sound incrimently the same everywhere. i agree with the lead vox part with the comp, cheers for that. IMO i think, it doesnt sound OVER compressed. just a bit to noticable compressed :lol: .
but dont get me wrong guys i do take ur guys advise otherwise i wouldnt have started this threads. cheers to all u. will apply and improve im the mean time until the next trax. ciao
unsane
Member
haha badger you got it wrong, when i was talking about the hihat i was referring to blueprint's recording not yours.
actually my suggestion was to compress the vocals even more squash the living daylights out of it, listen to the reference bands. some might say you should let the vocals breathe a little, but then again, its the "sound" of heavier genres nowadays.
with the snare, my guess is that you probably have alot of snare bleed into the other mics if whatever you're doing isn't making a difference. try gating the other tracks, or just go in and mute tom tracks when they aren't being played.
with the backup vocals...i think dropping the levels wont work because they aren't tight with the lead vocal in the first place..this is where production comes in..MAKE the vocalist sing it tight. you shouldnt be having to "bluff" them though, tell them your rationale behind everything, and even if they're opposed to the idea tell them to try it anyway. many times after hearing the results they'll come to.
actually my suggestion was to compress the vocals even more
squash the living daylights out of it, listen to the reference bands. some might say you should let the vocals breathe a little, but then again, its the "sound" of heavier genres nowadays. with the snare, my guess is that you probably have alot of snare bleed into the other mics if whatever you're doing isn't making a difference. try gating the other tracks, or just go in and mute tom tracks when they aren't being played.
with the backup vocals...i think dropping the levels wont work because they aren't tight with the lead vocal in the first place..this is where production comes in..MAKE the vocalist sing it tight. you shouldnt be having to "bluff" them though, tell them your rationale behind everything, and even if they're opposed to the idea tell them to try it anyway. many times after hearing the results they'll come to.
