Don't Push the Sound Engineer..

[parablue74]

Just a word of thought...
Don't push the sound engineer doing your show if you want him to do a great sound for you...
Cos when you try to take over the board from him, he will just listen to your 'orders' and in so doing, not try to enhance the sound intuitively when you are performing in case not to antagonize you..either that or he simply don't want to do a good sound simply due to your arrogance..
A bit of feedback(not sound feedback) is ok, but don't try to overdo or get too fussy like a whiner complainer...
Not been thinking about this too much, but pushing does create a negative effect rather than positive...

PS: I'm not directing at anyone in particular..

 

[Cheez]

Had a bad experience lately?

I trust the sound engineer with everything. All that matters to me is that I can hear myself. And since I use in-ear monitoring, that just about solve everything. I don't even rely on the monitors. I just need to make sure I can hear the other players.

In quite a few situations (when I did not have in-ear monitoring), the on-stage monitoring was done poorly. And if the sound engineer can't fix that (which happened quite a few times - due to unknown reasons, or suddenly during the actual performance itself), I just play "deaf" - unable to hear a single note I'm playing but "hear" it in my head. If that happens live, then musicians need to remember about musicianship - don't scowl and stare at the engineer. Just perform as you would. People are looking at you! You can deal with the sound engineer later...after the show.

In my most recent performance (during setup - 2 hours prior to the show), everything went wrong. The problem was the DI Box. But it took us forever to figure it out. I kept running between the stage and the sound room at least 10 times to and fro. The engineer just sat there and did nothing (watching TV actually). Anything I ask, the answer is, "No, we don't have that." Blank look. At least he let me fiddle with the mixer - since he's not doing anything about it. In the end, I had to troubleshoot with my other sound engineer friend over the phone to isolate the sound problem. Still, smiles everywhere, no scowling, words of thanks. You never know if the sound engineer decide to turn off your volume during the live show itself if you get into his bad books!

 

[parablue74]

Not bad experience, Cheez, actually great experience..
Just did a show recently for a band, and the sound was great.. the band was cool and nice and i felt inspired to give them a good sound.. that helped me think back about some other bands from before that were too fussy and my reaction to them..the difference i mean..
Anyway, since i'm both musician/sound engineer, many years ago, i once almost got fussy when someone else was doing the sound..
yeap, since i'm a sound guy myself, there was a thought to take over the board then..you know what i mean..
But some seasoned respectable player stopped me and told me not to, 'it's that guy's board, give him that respect!', he told me..
From then on, when someone else is mixing while i'm performing, i normally would not give more than mild comments about the sound, and if i would state a feedback, i normally do it in a nice way..

 

[kongwee]

Well, I usually need to touch in-house system and the sound engineer normally will not mend the system(unless concert hall or theatre). A lot of time, there is no plan( or too late for planning) and I have learn the board in the shortest time. Those comment that cannot be done, I just ignore it.

 

[hay88]

don't push him or he'll push you off the stage always make best buds with sound guys form the start

 

[funky-one]

Some SE (sound engineers) don't even need to be pushed for things to get ugly.

I had 2 'funny' experiences.

1) My band was doing a soundcheck and so I asked the SE if we can just balance out the individual instruments first and then balance the whole band sound. His reply assuringly, "Bro, the stage is yours". Then he just sat down and talk cock with his friend. Priceless.

2) This was a soundcheck at a concert theater in SG. So I would assume that the SE should be quite kilat. We getting lots of feedback from the acoustic guitar my other guitarist was playing. After trying to troubleshoot the problem, he came to me and said " I think the feedback is due to the way your friend is holding the G chord". He told me that while showing the G major chord shape with his hand. Priceless.

I dunno whether to laugh or smack him.

But of course there are awesome SEs too!

 

[guitarsan]

Haha! Sound guys are one of the most sensitive and "touchy" creatures on earth. Sometimes you become so afraid to hurt their delicate feelings!

Well, very often it takes both hands to clap. Either these sound guys get lots of crap and idiotic requests from amateurish bands, and they have had enough. Or they simply don't know what they are doing, but behave pettily and unprofessionally when questioned.

 

[cheesedaele]

There are competent/incompetent sound engineers, just as there are competent/incompetent musicians. Idiots/oversensitive people can come from both sides. No different here than in any other situation: be nice to everyone

Not true that sound guy can walk all over the band. Sure, sound guy can destroy the band's sound for one gig, but after that just don't ever call him again loh. Sound engineers not that rare. (GOOD sound engineers on the other hand, if you find one, NEVER lose his number.)

Becoming more common now, that people are experienced in both. So all the more we should also be open-minded and humble; whether sound guy or musician, you never know... the person on the other side of the mixer may be better at your job than you are.

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

+1 to cheesedaele

and i can empathize with prarablue74. that's the curse of being a musician as well as one who is well versed with the technical aspects of the AV equipment.

we will meet all kinds of situations, from the best / worst sound engineer to the most attitude / friendly sound engineer. whatever the situation, the best way handle them is to be respectful to all the parties involved and remain humble, be it taking over the sound board during sound check or making multiple requests. clear communication between the band and the sound engineer is key to avoid any misunderstandings.

 

[hardpan]

Here's a suggestion to bands out there who are struggling with mediocre sound at your gigs. Getting a sound engineer to 'tour' with your band is an option to consider. This guy doesn't even have to be professional, there are lots of poly students (NP FSV, RP Sonic Arts, SP DMAT, SAE, Lasalle etc) who are looking for opportunities to work with bands out there in the scene. He may not be the most experienced, but at least you know he'll make a concerted effort to mix your band well, lest you want to run the risk of having a sound guy from the rental company just sit behind the console smoking his fag and not even trying to mix your band well.

There isn't much of a 'touring sound' culture here, well only because Singapore is so freakin small, but pretty much all international acts tour with their own tech guys, so why can't we push that culture here in Singapore? Of course you'd run into other issues like the rental guys not wanting your own guy touching the board and potentially damaging their equipment. Befriend the rental guys man, Singapore is so small, you're probably gonna see the same rental guys over and over again, might as well build up good rapport with them. Once they trust you enough, they'll be more inclined to give you a good mix, or to let your own band engineer run the sound himself.

Over the past 2 years I've been blessed with opportunities to mix for an awesome band. Be it on the big stages like Fort Canning or the small clubs, just gotta make the best of what you have man.

 

[bf0502tr]

hmmm well lucky guys...i've never had the chance to be with a good sound engineer. for all my gigs its either the sound engineer was crap and cant do his job for shit or we did all the sound checks ourselves. but we never once tried to correct them, other than just letting them know that we think something's wrong. luckily for me, i now got 2 sound engineer students in my band. heh

 

[hardpan]

It kinda boils down to the mentality of these rental guys. Keep in mind they get paid the same no matter how many bands play on that day, or how good the sound is. Unless you're 'friends' with the engineer who happens to be running the show, there really isn't much incentive for him to go the extra mile and give your band a killer mix. It's not like he's gonna score with the chicks at the gig if the sound is awesome.

 

[fgl]

I got too many horror stories and a few good stories to tell over the years ... just as there are horror SEs and Good SEs .

I am normally calm and unfussy but sometimes even I have my limits.

Fundementally though, SEs must remember that the artistes is the one "facing" the audience, every artiste have their quirks ...

Young up & coming SEs - when veteran performers tell you what we need .... do try to listen to us .... we kinda know what we talking about ...

Up & coming performers - remember to listen to the veteran SEs - they also know WTF the doing so ...

 

[redname]

i dnt have much live exp to comment but there was this time i was doing an item for my company's party.

i thot my voice was too thin, so i request the sound guy to do something and his arrogant reply was "hey i'm the sound guy here, i know wat i'm doing"

in the end how? my colleagues tld me my voice was thin and they commented about other items where the bass was too loud, the guitar can't hear etc....

 

[garywilliams82]

Hmmmm well good... i am always finding a chance to be with good sound engineer. There is a strong perceived link between sound engineering and music. Ask anyone thinking about embarking on a sound engineering career, "Why?, and they'll say, "Because I like music".

 

[someone]

Honestly i find there is a lack of connection between the musicians and the sound engineers here.

If you are a band that takes its sound seriously then you should really consider having someone who actually knows you to help you get that sound. Most of the shows the bands dont even know the name of the dude mixing for them... and probably visa versa...

If the sound guy works for a rental company his main deal is set the gear up and make sure it dont get spoilt
If the sound guy works for a pub his main deal is turn the system on and make sure noone spills beer on his amps or mixer.. If its a small pub he might help out on the bar as well.. That would earn him some extra cash in tips etc...

To be honest the local sound guy is actually more of a system tech who is forced to mix for some band he never heard before playing a genre he doesn't listen to. Then ppl wonder why the guitar solo never bring up, or whatever it is...

When we go into record its different.. we will bring reference songs or spend hours tweaking the guitar amp then go for coffee together.. we build a relationship.. the engineer realizes that the band wants to sound like example A. He can then unpack that to figure out how the mix is put together and you are on the same page.

If a band just turns up in a live situation be it a one night show in a bar, or worse a multiband gig, just go up to stage pug in guitar and expect the sound guy to know how to set up his mix with just a 30min sound check or worse a 5min sound check or no sound check!!! then how? the guy is not a mind reader. He will just set up according to his default and what his ears tell him. If he is a nice guy you might sound good. If he is a grumpy fella then who knows what will happen.

Also bear in mind that a sound engineer is more likely to get fired for a night of endless feedback due to trying to push vocals above a band that is playing too loud for the set up available than he is for upsetting the band and telling them to turn down the guitar amps.. or even for losing the vocal in said mix

Just a few thots