does 32 poly phone or 128 poly make a big difference to sound

[hotchili008]

i m currently considering CDP100 or CASio PX 120..it have much same function

but PX120 has 128 polyphone..when i hear the sound from both.. they pretty much the same.(less than 1 year piano playing exp)

hear u dudes comment about it?

 

[digihub00]

32 polyphony is 4 times less than 128
depends on what you are playing

some patch is made of 4 elements
with each element taking up 32 polyphony

for you to play the patch properly,
you'll need 128 polyphony for a 32 polyphony 4-elements patch.

 

[Cheez]

Agree with digihub00.

Also depends on: type of music you are playing, whether you intend to sequence or not, and the type of keyboard.

As digihub00 said, if one patch has more than one element per voice, then your polyphony is going to drop. But keyboards with 32 notes polyphony don't usually do that - they will program them to maximise polyphony. This also means the patches will sound "thinner".

For digital pianos, usually polyphony will not be an issue unless you decide to layer sounds. Digital pianos, unlike synths, usually have one element per patch (except perhaps the later ones). So you don't usually run out of polyphony, except when you layer 2 patches, then the polyphony drops. But it is usually not a big problem. If you layer 2 patches with short decay (eg piano and epiano), the short decay will compensate for the need for more polyphony. If you layer patches with long decay or sustain (eg piano and strings), you can get into trouble. But then again, you don't step on the sustain pedal too much or your pads/strings will become mushy. In fact, you'll hardly use your sustain pedal in this case, which will mean you'll compensate yourself in your playing and polyphony should not be an issue. But for layering, I would recommend 64 notes polyphony. The difference between 64 ane 128 polyphony for a digital piano is not huge, but 32 and 64 can be significant if you layer.

Synths are different - they almost always have more than 1 element per patch (Yamaha being the worst of the lot - in terms of elements per patch). So 64 notes polyphony is the bare minimum. Latest synths must have 128 because of their complex programming.

If you do sequencing, then 32 notes polyphony is almost certainly not sufficient. But again, if you are doing very simple sequencing, you may just about make it, but I wouldn't count on that.

Type of music you play is also important. Which is why you find analog synths (which we use for leads and some pads) to have very low polyphony (8-16) - and that is actually sufficient.

In your case, Casio don't usually have complex programming. If you are just going to play piano sounds, 32 notes polyphony is enough. If you want to layer, get at least 64. Long-winded answer to your question...

 

[hotchili008]

actually i dont understand anything:mrgreen:

wat is patch and wat is element.. ?wat is sequencing too : )

another quezion

casio CDP100 use ZPI stereo sampling sound.. casio pX120 use AIF sound (casio say its better) but i dont feel any difference

i play some simple music sheet for the moment eg final fantasy..(something have to press 5 keys at a time)..people say more poly is better but i have budget constraint

thxxx answer

 

[Cheez]

Patch = the name of the sound you play on your keyboard. Eg - Piano 1, Piano 2 etc - each name is a "patch". Simply - patch is the sound you play on your keyboard.

Each patch (or sound) may be made of several sounds (elements). You may hear only one sound, but to make it sound the way it is, the programmer may add in 2 or more sounds (elements). So if one patch has 2 elements, then playing one note will mean actually mean 2 sounds being played. So if a patch has 2 elements, a 32 note polyphony keyboard will in reality become 16 note polyphony since one note being played = 2 sounds.

Sequencing = using midi to program multiple tracks with different instruments. In this case, you may be programming drums, bass, keyboards, pads etc which of course will take up lots of polyphony.

ZPI, AIF - just names Casio confuse potential customers like you! Just trust your ears. Forget about names. In real life, they don't mean much. Yamaha has their AWM and AWM 2 etc and so on and so forth.

 

[since1982]

wow learnt alot from this post..
have been really intimidated by the keyboard ever since i tried making the switch from piano..

thanks alot for the replies and for bringing up this post!
★☆｡.:*:･"ﾟ★('-^v)Thanks(v^-')★｡.:*:･"☆★

 

[bongman]

...............

 

[mawr]

Hello,

I need some advice on a suspected polyphonic-related issue too.

I have a yamaha keyboard with 32-note polyphony. I did a test with some synth, i.e. strings, and realised the sounds disappear even when I only held down only about 20 notes simultaneously. For other synth like i.e. solo violin, this problem does not occur. Is this a polyphony problem, then, due to strings using more than one element?

Also, when I play a piece with drums at the background, I also get intermittent cut offs, especially from the percussion parts. Is this the polyphony problem again? This happens when I activate features like sustain, dual, and harmony altogether. I'm asking because even if I turn all these features on, I still don't really think 32 notes are used, so I'm not sure if it's another problem. If I switch off some of these features, the problems reduce significantly (but even so, not totally eliminated) but then the sounds are not rich enough for my liking...

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Cheez]

Sounds like you hit the polyphonic limit ceiling. What model of keyboard are you using?

Obviously, if you use dual sound (ie layering) or harmony (which adds on other sounds at the same time), more notes were played at one instance. Harmony uses lots of sounds - at least 3 extra (to form a chord). So playing one note = 4 notes. Obviously if you use auto-accompaniment, it is really going to drain the polyphony.

The easiest way to test polyphony is this:

1. Use string patch.
2. Play the lowest key of the keyboard (1 note) and step on sustain pedal.
3. Then play from middle C upwards, note by note, making sure sustain pedal is stepped on.
4. Count the notes until the lowest note suddenly gets cut off.

 

[pf]

How to hold 20 notes at the same time??? Last time I counted, I only have 10 fingers.

and realised the sounds disappear even when I only held down only about 20 notes simultaneously.

 

[mawr]

Thanks for the reply!

I'm using a Yamaha PSR S500. Btw, I also only have 10 fingers but I use my arm and press down

So I guess this is not a bug/problem but rather a limitation of my keyboard then. 32-polyphony really sucks huh!

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Cheez]

You don't need to use your arm to press down. You only have to step on the sustain pedal and play note by note with your fingers until you reach the limit.

 

[kenny]

pls pardon me for my ignorance, i really learnt something about this topic over here. i do own a keyboard. something i still dont understand is that.. err.. is it that we'll only hear the difference when we are playing songs that uses many keys concurrently? if i play a fundemental song... simple notes.. its not going to have effect is it? appreciate if u can help me to understand a bit more. tks!

 

[Cheez]

If the total number of notes sustained does not exceed the polyphony limit, you won't hear any difference. Even in songs that uses few notes, if you use heavy sustain pedalling, you can get into trouble with polyphony. So make sure your pedalling skills is there - ie don't over pedal.

 

[widdly]

It's not just a problem when using a pedal.

The sound of the note doesn't stop as soon as you remove your finger. The notes "tail" will ring out for a little while afterwards depending on the patch you are using. These tails will get cut off if you are playing quickly and don't have enough polyphony.

Also different synths have different voice allocation systems when you exceed the polyphony. The simplest is to kill the oldest note before the new note, this is called last note priority.

There is also first note priority which kills the most recent note. This is good if you want to noodle over sustained chords.

There is highest note priority which will gives priority to notes high up on the keyboard. This is handy if you are playing a slow melody in the right hand over a busy accompaniment in the left hand. Lowest note priority is the opposite, good for sustained low sounds and busy high sounds.

There is also quiet note priority and loud note priority but these are pretty rare.

Some synths will re-allocate the same voice if you play the same note. You can test if your synth does this by pressing the sustain pedal, playing a low note and then repeatedly playing the same high note. If the low note stops playing then your synth doesn't do re-allocation.

A lot of synths will let you choose the type of voice allocation used.

 

[kenny]

tks, i got a better understanding now.